Lockjaw rotation shattered by Faceless - Full FFA time begins?

Thank you Bandok for this post. In my personal opinion I would gladly take the punishments as long as FI did as well, only as long as the rest of Dima's request is granted in full. I am just a member so this is my opinion and not that of the guilds.

I repeat Almar's statement about your emotional stability friend.

Good lord lockjaw just go FFA. Life will be so much easier.

I was at work when this all went down so I was unable to attend the meeting. Since coming home I contacted Gulfein about it who was entirely unapologetic about it. Where we stand currently is that MM claims to no longer recognize the rotation and has even gone so far to nuke the document so I honestly don't see any way that we can work with those guys anymore unless they willingly come back to the table which seems unlikely to happen since it would require Gulfein to admit his wrongdoing and he seems far too prideful for that.

Most people who read the logs posted feel like he's on a power trip. Though like you said. Sooner or later he'll realize that he pulled a damdor

So let me guess you're one of those people that gives the US military carte blanche to do whatever - since "they could just take over the world if they cared to", eh?

Setting up a structure, then discarding it when convenient for you is at least as bad, to many it's worse - doesn't matter if you helped found something, if you don't "need" something, or whatever other stupid theory you're going to try to rationalize.

I'm not MM nor have I ever been involved with any of them - and in fact, started with a negative opinion of them coming into the server and an incredibly positive one of Darth. (And friendly, although distrusting with Zaide - I appreciate his stated goals, but he tends to go off the rails at times due to paranoia and then he tends to get unreasonable...)

Don't get me wrong, MM isn't without blame - hell the MM names I recognize aren't even claiming they're not - but if say tomorrow (to stick to military analogies) the US tosses a nuke into central Russia, that will be considered the initial point of fault to most people - not the retaliation that occurs.

Or to switch analogies - if two people get into a fist fight in a bar, the first one to swing is always going to get hauled off to jail - the second may or may not depending on all the details. Again, the first person to cause an assault is almost always considered the party at fault.

Ask yourself this - would MM have declared the rotation void if your guild didn't opt to start adjusting the rules WITH ZERO OTHER INVOLVEMENT?

Remember, the rules which were apparently so sacred that Darth and company in their forum statements looked to support banning all of MM for 3-7 days over a single group of people (that were guildkicked after violating the rotation rule) making the most minor of rotation breaches, with internal handling that most would likely consider a rational response done almost immediately.

Assuming banning MM in that case wasn't radically off base - what would the appropriate way to handle completely sidestepping the voting rules for rules and target changes be in the rotation? [I'd assume a ban of a month or so, since it's a much larger and clear breach that they did to the rules that had been agreed upon - it's a shame there's no enforcement anymore, eh?]

Some serious pockets of humanity around here

Hey now don't be stealing my lines.

If some of you are always interested in the next expansion why are you on a time locked server. Every time a new expansion opens h this is boring yawn 6 months is too long . Go to the regular server.

The fact that, inspite of EVERYTHING posted, you seem to think it's entirely MM's fault is insane. How you got into any sort of leadership position boggles my mind. Before you shortsightedly respond with more obvious bias towards MM, please understand that while I believe they are at fault, they aren't the only ones.

I find it funny that you bring that up actually Vaclav. You know. There seems to be something missing from that. Oh yes, Faceless never received punishment for sending in Petitions that made it seem to CS that the rotation met and called for MM's suspension. Though that's just hearsay I suppose. Except when Roshen says it. I may not be wise in posting this, but let's face it I may end up getting in trouble. I've honestly tried my best to adhere to the rules to the best I can.

I dont like the software either, the attitude was what I was shining the light on though

I agree with you. I will happily accept punishment for my part in what happened, but only when the other rotation guilds see what they have taken part of and what Faceless has done to EVERYONES rotation and properly punishes them. Though if the guilds are going to continue to remain blind to the rules that were breached then how can any guilds in the rotation trust any other guild to uphold it?

Eh, for the record - I wasn't advocating that they overstepped their bounds and should've been punished back then - I think they were overzealous, but not punishably so. If you're taking what I said that way, I misphrased things.

But if they truly believed what that one group had done was so horrid, clearly they shouldn't have done what they did since it was clearly a much larger breach.

Ethics are more largely tested when they're unenforced.

If they REALLY cared back then, they should've stuck to their guns and retained that mindset, which wouldn't have allowed such a massive breach as the Efreeti nonsense.

Omg so entertaining

Personally, I think the only thing Dima wants attention to be shined on is himself.. 24/7/365.

Riiiiiiiight, you sophiee and endtime was getting on your knees to darthy in general chat everytime there was a mention of MM and faceless.

How about you guys stop crying about MM breaking rotation and just get on your knees in front of darthy asking him for the loot. I'm sure he gave AD the loot from Vox!

You should be careful, you are starting to much too much sense. It's not appreciated around these here parts.

I honestly don't mind that they never received punishment. Though after there was active communication between MM officers and FI officers there was time before the suspensions to cancel the petition. It was a crazy incident that showed FI's true colors. I'm more interested in the fact that people know why it is the suspension happened when it could have been avoided since you brought it up. That post seems to sum it up rather well. It's hard to hold trust for Faceless when this stuff keeps happening doesn't it.

No hides dropped.