Same here - and completely agree - Warriors should get that fixed, just as Paladin AE aggro needs to be given back. just as I figured. I have a 283/30 weapon (Cerulean Crystal Hammer) with the coin aug (16 dmg) for 299/30. My attack is usually ~5100 buffed as you are above and my melee comes in typically at 7.5k - almost what you just parsed. (I'm running a parse right now to ensure apples to apples.) That puts SKs currently in relation to that non-proficiency DPS almost exactly where I've been stating I think SKs should be in relation to Warriors. The issue appears to be that the devs saw how poor Warrior dps was compared to DPS classes and decided to close the gap but did not compensate SKs accordingly, so SKs were left behind. SKs need to be caught up too.
I still stand by my original post.. No, rangers CANT do it if played well. Does any raiding guild in TDS have rangers filling roles of off-tanking when they were getting their first wins at the event? If rangers can do it, then you would see more raiding guilds putting up rangers as off-tanks. Does that mean all of their rangers suck? Like I said before, rangers have -situational- uses for thier tank abilities. These abilities shine brighter when your not on current content, and even brighter when your comparing a well played person to a poorly played one. Yes, you can have rangers tank weaker adds in CoTF raids and likely all adds in RoF, but that doesnt mean rangers should be looked on favorably as an off-tank type because their co-parent class is a warrior. That means they can do it at their current level in weaker content. I am CoTF T1 geared paladin, but I can and have stepped up and tanked a boss in AH, or other events like DH2 & N1. Im sure I could tank other bosses, however, I'm sure I couldn't have done it when these were new raids or current content. But because im 5 levels higher, and im fully geared in current content, I can step in as a knight and perform as a warrior. That doesnt mean I would ever consider myself, or want guildmates to consider me; on the same level of a main tank warrior. Why has this thread become filled with you defending your points against everyone else. Maybe thats a sign that you're wrong.
No, because they take in account for the DPS spells that you will maintain during normal fight circumstances. That is how SKs will and always will upkeep their DPS. Only in your mind do you think devs left SKs behind because you want to do more melee dps then tack on the spell dps that you acquired through your other parent class. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it doesn't work that way. Wow you admitted you didn't know something finally. And really, you came up with that brilliant idea to bring it to the devs? We have been...they gave us battle stomp instead which is up for 20 seconds and down for a minute. It still results in the same downtime if we used just leap by itself instead of alternating them.
My guild doesn't raid TDS, I have only raided in TDS as a cleric and the guild I guest raided with has plenty of knights and well played ones at that. My experience comes from CoTF t1 and 2. A ranger could do it if needed in cotf on adds when current if they were needed to, now TDS is leaps and bounds above CoTF in mob dmg, and so yes, I doubt they could do it there because I'm seeing knights get rounded there easily. I saw them tank mobs in WK1 (a single, doubles meant death) saw them tank in neriak on the adds from nightmare, in AH on Phoenixes, and other adds, I'm not talking stuff like Brady in DH2 or anything like that. So what your saying is you don't ever as a paladin want to be in the MT order? I was able to MT stuff like 3 guards in DH2, XP in DH1, deathmaster in WK1 in a mix of roft4 and cotf gear when it was current, I just had to get some current gear, couldn't do it in rof t3/4 only gear. I still have issues on prince and captains now though after unholy wears off, and I'm fine with that, there should be some challenge and extra effort for knights, but it is still doable. A good discussion is usually people bringing their points of view out and discussing the merits and faults in them, if you cannot defend your point, it probably wasn't worth bringing up in the first place.
Realistically Paladin AE aggro (even with pre nerf Beacon) has always sucked. There def needs to be a Hate override like it had before. But in todays game 2:00 minutes is too damn long to wait for one 1 ability. (especially if it misses because of range/resist, its got the smallest range 30' of any AE ability) Especially considering if you want to look at it like this: Everyone except Paladins have gotten new AE abilities. SO the position we are in for AE aggro has gotten worse over the years. There is functionally no reason we shouldn't be able to get Beacon down to a reasonable amount of time (other then Dev "vision") Call it a quality of life standard. I mean really I doubt it would be unbalancing if we had 1 ability on a 45s to 1 minute recast. < 45s to 1m seems reasonable to me for todays pace of the game? But regrettably that will not ever happen
Sounds like a bug, you get the same 4 ranks of hastened leap I do and the refresh on my battle stomp is 20 seconds.
Nightops, a geared knight could tank every boss in CoTF when it was current. Only ones that gave issues was pre nerf dh2/wk2. A geared knight also could tank all RoF, when it was current. TDS is where this trend changed. At 105, with full cotf raid gear, you should have no problem with anything not TDS raid related.
Nope, Elidroth said himself that Stomp will not work with leap aa's. It won't be until we get hastened stomp aa's that it will be a legitimate upgrade, which I believe he said he doesn't plan on making. So as it stands, our "constant" dps boost is complete crap and can at times hurt our dps rather than help it.
So you think it is just a coincidence that with no 2her prof, SKs almost equal Warriors in melee and exceed them with spells & pet just as I described and want to see again? In your mind, the issue was Warriors falling behind SKs - not dps classes - that lead to the proficiencies being introduced? It is obvious to anyone without an agenda what happened here and now that it benefits you by overpowering you in respect to SKs, you want to keep that ill-gotten advantage - we get it. Doesn't mean you are suppose to though, nor should you, no matter what you tell yourself. As for the parse I promised (as this thread has run for a while...): Cerulean Crystal Hammer (283/30) with Coin aug (16 dmg): 299/30 Ranger, Shammy, Enchanter buffs, plus self buffs, 17% OH clicky, 4967 attack Combat Dummy Geza (Model Qela): crush: 31865353 total, 7838.96 dps, 7838.95 adps, 4340 avg, 11064 max, 1853 min, 7341 melee hits, 2359 misses, 0.76 accuracy, 0.22 crit %, 4065 seconds
Warriors were falling behind in general. It was Elidroth's main reason for giving us stances. We as a class were not appealing in the slightest in the group game. We were the worst dps, the worst tanking, and least useful of the three tanks. Elidroth gave us stances for these specific reasons. So yes, anyone who knows anything about the history of the warrior class knows why warriors were given stances and why no other class was given anything to make up for it. Do not blame the warriors for their utter lack of utility compared to a knight. We have two things: melee dps and mitigation/aggro. If you think all your utility doesn't quantify as enough justification for lacking in these two things, well, tough. Please feel free to reroll a warrior through gameplay. Stances were meant to give us flare and excitement and choice. What stances gave us in reality are annoyances, flaws and more negative aspects. Oh and take out Battle Leap from the warrior parse (as it's an activated ability), and you're looking at a sustained parse of somewhere around the 10.5-11k range. If that 3k damage sustained means all so much for you, go ahead and keep ranting. Be my guest, I'll just stand back and laugh at the ridiculousness of it.
Annoying or poorly implemented power gains are still power gains. I agree that they could have been done much less crummily, but it was still a net gain, no? It's also not a coincidence that when warrior passive mitigation is roughly equivalent to knight temporary 2 minute disc mitigation, there's not a lot of hope for sanely tuning raid mobs for all 3 classes. TDS raids excacerbate the newly introduced imbalances, which is relevant to the discussion: why should a raid leader choose sk if all 3 are available? Before it was skewed too favorably towards Knights and warriors needed something to offset it. Now it pretty much seems to have gone the other way. (In a raid example, of course. Group would be an entirely different discussion)
I can't imagine that breaking away from the defensive rotation model for raid boss tanking would deepen Warrior rosters either.
all 4 daily HAs. most of it using 1h/shield, for a little while i used a 2h but not much since it was for a returning healer and i was going easy on them. only one dot was used (dire strangulation) and spear, both were used pretty consistently. full compliment of raid buffs and clickies except for haste, was just using twitching speed. Tearsin -vs- Combined: A crumbling deathcap: -- DMG: 74390422 -- DPS: 19217 -- Scaled: 19217 -- Slash: 50826474 -- DirDmg: 12414012 -- Hit: 4150183 -- DoT: 2588803 -- Bash: 2505165 -- Pierce: 1905785 -- Non-crit rate: 84.9% -- crit rate: 15.1% -- Attempts: 19160 -- Hits: 16654 -- Missed: 2506 -- Accuracy: 86.9% -- Avg Hit: 4475 -- Max hit: 337225 -- DMG to PC: 16965501 Combined: A crumbling deathcap in 3871s, 78463k @20269 --- Tearsin 74390k --- Geoffpeterson 4073k pet DPS was 1053.
full raid buffs, but in a tank group so zero DPS support. full spell bar of dots and full burning, though no glyph usage. 3x blood, 3x plague, dire disease, dire corruption, snare, spear, 2x lifetaps. VoD, 1st, carmine, chaining lifetaps and spears every second i wasn't reapplying dots, HT. i did slack a bit and i failed to use BP click or thought/soul leech so there's like at least 30-40k damage i lost... dun dun dddduuuunnnnn. Tearsin -vs- Bone Crusher: -- DMG: 10830831 -- DPS: 54979 -- Scaled: 54979 -- Pierce: 4565733 -- DoT: 2929961 -- DirDmg: 2864784 -- Slash: 415055 -- Bash: 55298 -- Non-crit rate: 82.2% -- crit rate: 17.8% -- Attempts: 787 -- Hits: 731 -- Missed: 56 -- Accuracy: 92.9% -- Avg Hit: 14816 -- Max hit: 337225 -- DMG to PC: 0 Bone Crusher in 197s, 11028k @55981 --- Tearsin 10831k --- Geoffpeterson 197k pet did 1343 this time!
It seems to me that given the AC values in TDS, knights would have better sustained than warriors due to having melee and spell dps... WRU Hedgewizard potions?
