How does the dev team see SKs?

Have you compared caster dps and melee dps in TDS? Anyway, if you guys want more dps, DO NOT ask for things that go in the mob's debuff window (ie dots) unless they are going to be extremely powerful. I doubt necros would be thrilled with SKs taking up 6 slots each or whatever. Personally I would be asking for quick cast DD (spears) unlinked so that you can easily cast them between melee rounds and for Hedgewizard potion procs (assuming you know what those are?)

i don't know why so many people have such a hard-on for unlinking spears.
spears suck, the mana to recast to damage ratio on them is terrible. and the class has almost no personal burn mods for DD. when you have spell slots being at a premium, as of right now if spears were unlinked loading a full spell bar of them would be a dps loss compared to dots.

so you're looking at SKs needing to get spears unlinked and an overhaul of Spires (never going to happen) or some kind of tweaking to existing systems making them easier to manage (might happen?)

my ideal solution would be:
retune SK dots so that we use 1 powerful dot per type instead of multiple older ranks (blood and plague). this would bring SK dps from 9 dots to 5.
then, give us either an impose for blood equivalent, or just add that effect to our spear line.

that would solve like 4 different SK issues in one pass.

Why would SK's want to use a potion that would literally never proc for our spells?

If you mean ask for something along that line, Brael started asking for a self only SK mana recursion type spell or aa back during SoD expansion and it's been requested every expansion it has yet to happen.

We have also asked repeatedly for spears and our big tap both to not be linked, that doesn't seem like it will ever happen either.

Just because Elid said a couple times SK's should be the "dps tank" doesn't mean they have any intention of ever giving us the tools to fill that role.

wait i just caught this.
are you... are you seriously trying to suggest that the gap between caster dps and melee dps is because of mob AC?

Hedgewizard pots proc off your Spears, Lifetaps, DOts, etc, at a 17% proc rate.

So how would it "literally never proc"?

Or is there something i am missing.

As a paladin I can get about 4 to 5 procs a minute. Pretty consistently whilst DPSing. So i am curious why your saying an SK wouldn't get procs.

Given that SK spell dps is already ~55% of the total, any increase to such would make the class more caster than melee, which isn't the design; we're not a caster that wears plate but a tank who casts. Again, if leech abilities are a concern, nerf them in accordance with the melee boost.

Heck - I'd take a copy of the 2her proficiency as is. It would scale almost exactly in line with the gains Warriors received - make up the difference via our pet (so there is no further casting gains needed nor is pet dps effeced by leech abilities).

For burns, SKs are still the only tank class without the ability to cripple, one way or another. Warriors and Paladins have a disc to increase crit chance and add / provide a cripple chance - there is no reason for SKs to not have one. (Ex. Pureforge, 2 min duration, 20 minute reuse.) Leechcurse is not much more powerful in effect than lich sting but even with AA timer reductions, is on ~1 hour refresh - devs could drop the reuse and add to it.

Thats part of it. Compare logs of COTF raids to TDS, you'll notice a big discrepancy in your melee damage, even with the same support/buffs/etc.

Thats weird: because I've seen all the tanks parse double that at some point or another in the last year.

And really the 55k parse Tearsin posted was at 187s duration (which is beyond a "burn" duration, it probably would have been over 100k if the fight had lasted a realistic amount of time), He must have been the only one trying in that entire raid (or they were doing it with 2 groups), because I don't think i've ever seen Bonecrusher last past 60s.

Please feel free to share, and do account for gear level of those involved.

Being a family man, I only get to make our open raids, so we're a mixed bag - some are in TDS raid gear while some may not even have CotF T1 gear. As I've noted earlier in this thread, I'm in just about full CotF1 raid gear and the best I've hit in ~86 seconds is ~46k iirc (would have to go back through the thread and/or my parses), with a mean in the mid 30ks. We have one SK who's parsed higher on the raid I've made and he has Hasturdia(sp?) - that was in the 55k range. I don't know how hard he was trying, but those are the numbers.

/GU An elder flamewing in 47s, 1752k @37283sdps --- Triconix 1752k@(37283dps in 47s) [100%]

An elder flamewing on 5/30/2015

Triconix - 35
--- Banestrike - 1
--- Battle Stomp - 1
--- Brell's Sacred Stone Balm - 3
--- Brutal Onslaught Disc - 1
--- Frightful Force - 5
--- Glyph of the Cataclysm - 1
--- Gut Punch - 2
--- Heroic Blade - 1
--- Infusion of Rage - 6
--- Intensity of the Resolute - 1
--- Knee Strike - 2
--- Mighty Strike Disc - 1
--- Rage of Rallos Zek - 1
--- Rampage - 1
--- Second Spire of the Warlord - 1
--- Tendon Slice - 5
--- Vehement Rage - 1
--- Vie faded - 1

Produced by GamParse v1.5.0.2

I got through almost my entire main burn rotation discs on this one mob and I didn't clear 50k dps on a standard mob in RoF. Full raid buffs, just me killing it with a merc healing me IE no support whatsoever. I even used Heroic blade right at the very end during Brutal onslaught to inflate my numbers a bit (even though it was a crappy RNG) as I normally wouldnt use that until I pop offensive disc. Also, I was spamming shield topple and hit vital strike below 20% but it's not showing on the parse.

Primary burn button: Intensity, vehement, glyph, 2nd spire, mighty strike
Secondary: Brutal and I used stomp once.
I even used my AE damage wep from AH, hit rage of rallos (proc each hit) to further inflate my numbers.

Now where is this leet warrior DPS and where can I get some? I don't burn much on a warrior, but I know how to when need be, but I'm not going to sit here and declare myself the best at it, but this is a VERY short parse blowing my best abilities to even inflate my totals so you'd think under our two primary discs running, this parse would be inflated. I wouldn't say 37k is something to run home about...not in the slightest.

I'd have to defer to your fellow Warriors who've quoted 60k in this thread. Buffs, weapons, stance, etc? Can you post a link to the log? I have a parser that can break it down by ability / spell, so you can see dps under disc vs not.

Ok Ill bite

/GU Bone Crusher in 55s, 167345k @3042644sdps --- #11 Sunmistress 6272k@114036sdps (120615dps in 52s)

Gear level: Hastaduria, 3x Cleave, Fero XII
Class: Paladin
Support: Druid/Sham and Lady Luck

With 7th. Not the highest parse or lowest. about average for that duration (considering 7th) at level 105 (not a whole lot of fights to choose from at that Duration, None from TDS, unless you count Arx4 minis)

Level of trying involved?: Mediocre, this was right before I quit playing.

Interesting - obviously at a different gear level than my SK or the Warrior producing the parses in this thread. Care to share the log? Or at least post an export of the fight from my parser, which you can get at http://www.mediafire.com/download/l7601vhabh1de21/Xan_Parse_.Net.zip. The reason I ask is that as I mentioned above, my parser will break down the dps by spell and ability. In other words, what was melee, what was melee under a disc, how much a particular proc did, etc.

Hey, I think it's cool you designed your own parser and I give you respect for that.

All of your numbers just became suspect, however.

Not in the least - feel free to vet them for yourself. My parser has been around a loooong time and proven most accurate time and again. If you parse and use Gam's, you need to note Gam's 'live' data is extremely inaccurate due to it being a sliding window of time, so if you compare to that one, be sure to look at a log after the fact and not 'live fight' data.

The entire reason for my parser is to break up dps by spell / ability. For that reason, it is slower to load a file and takes up a bit of memory, but you get a nice tree view of dps by type / spell and abilities you were under that effect it at the time. Ex. http://www.mediafire.com/view/dt3lhyo7b29gtoz/Parser.jpg

I gave XanParse it a whirl and I looked at the 10 longest fights from my log which is about a week old, then compared them side-by-side with GamParse.

Saw up to a 20% variance in DPS results between XanParse and GamParse.

You might claim your parser is more accurate, but we should be comparing apples to apples here.

I don't disagree there, but 20% variance does seem odd. What I found in the past was an inaccuracy in Gam with +crit damage. You can see that the hit and the crit messages tend can be different under such conditions. Point is, that was usually our only variance, which was small; can you post a log that has such a big difference? I'll compare the two and tally it up by hand to see which is right, if either.

I can't give you the whole log, but I'll see if I can break out the more lop-sided fights and scrub chat out of it.

Heh, turns out most of the disparity was coming from suppressed finishing blows on GP.

A worthy thing to suppress~