Yellow Dominance???

True, but if you meet the requirement, your group shield should buy your healer enough time to get a handle on the situation. If not then no amount of troller shields will save you because the healer just isn't up for the task.

The group shield is just a " Oh sh** button " and not something u can use as frequently as a healer shield for example.

I could be wrong here, but the way i see it, a controller is the back up for every role. They have stuns to give the tank a few seconds of breathing room or to prevent the group from getting jumped by strays. And they have the group shield to give the healer some breathing room. And ofcourse power out to keep the whole operation running.

I started to correct you on several points, but decided not to do it in detail because I'd just be repeating myself. You obviously don't realize ALL trolls can stun entire mobs now and you also don't realize that a tank's push/pull effects i.e. CC effects only last for those same "few seconds" you love to mention lol. Adds stay near tanks due to aggro, which we've established has nothing to do with dom.

One last thing, I certainly will not die with 3 or 4 adds on me or even 5 or 6 adds because I'm a gadget troll and I need only pop Decoy (my own personal tank) clipped with Distract (go away bad guys XD) + (invincibility w/o a cap) and it's back to business as usual.

I'm done here.

If trolls and tanks can usually mitigate enough damage that the healers can kick back and relax. I know I've had plenty of clutch SC moments where when my group shield is needed the most.

To make the math simple, a troll has 2k dom and 2k resto, their shields prevent 4k damage and their cc's last for 4 seconds. So, for an extended period of time a troll can pretty much negate all damage against anything that isn't a boss. Sadly, no matter how much dom a troll has, you cannot be t6 and go into inner sanctum and encase brother eye or make him panic which is kinda lame. Why can't I be as strong as t2 braniac in t5 or better gear? Fleeting questions...

I've managed to knock enemies out of their channeled powers when that skull pops up over their heads or get the group shield on those standing in the strike zone.

When you are talking about shielding the group Controllers fail in comparison to Healers. Not only are Healer shields much more accessible but they are also much stronger. 4000 is nothing compared to nearly 7000 a Healer shield can prevent in full tier 6 gear. With Healers working together they can cover the group 75% of the time with no need for Supercharge. With Electricities update all Healers can now do this.

Controller shields do stack with Healer shields but if the sole reason you use a Controller shield is to "help your Healer" and thus want more Dominance then you shouldn't worry about it. Healer shields will prioritize players with the lowest total Health which automatically gives them a tool to control tough situations without needing to use Supercharge.

Now wanting Dominance to increase personal shields is valid to me as that will help with objective tasks and only costs Power. However Healers are far better at mitigating group damage compared to Controllers (and more efficient). You shouldn't really need to help them with this task using sometimes valuable Supercharge.

correct me if im wrong, but all this shield talk reminded me of something you guys are forgetting.

healer shields last for either 125% of the caster's resto OR 3 hits, whichever comes first. same goes for ice's reflection, 10,000+dominance OR 3 hits, whichever comes first. all other shields, including ice's others and controllers last the full resto+dominance.

A trolls group shield is also a 50% SC with PoT. If lace is correct, any healer shield doesn't stack up in comparison because 3 hits come faster 90% of the time whereas a troll shield has a more solid basis for mitigation.

Well not just "3 hits" but 3 hits over a set amount of time which usually equals half the normal duration of the shield. Most attacks don't hit this fast. You are lucky to get hit more than a couple of times in the 15 second duration unless you are a Tank. You are more likely to deplete the full Healer shield prevention than you are to lose it before 15 seconds (this point even applies to a Tank. A Tank with a Healer shield will most likely lose it before the spread out 3 hits takes place). If you lose a Healer shield and you apply that same damage to a Controller shield you will end up taking more damage simply because the Controller shield is weaker.

You can easily test the hits with a duel partner. Have them use 3 range taps and see if a Healer shield will go down. It shouldn't. It will take 3 hits over a period of time to take them down or you exceed the damage cap. In regards to other shields they do, in general, have hit limits but vary from 3 hits and thus not always apparent.

Also all shields don't last last until the damage cap is depleted. Shields all have a time limit to them. In general this is 15 seconds but can vary between certain shields. You either lose it after the time limit, you reach the damage cap or you reach the spread out hit limit. A shield will never stay up until you reach the damage cap. Shields will in general last up to 15 seconds at most (varies a bit on certain shields).

Healer shields compared to Controller Supercharge shields Healer shields are superior for group mitigation simply because of accessibility and strength. Target priority for Healer shields makes it so when needed for emergency situations the appropriate group members are targeted and thus usually saved. A Healer can react to situations like that every 20 seconds. A controller cannot.

And a Healer can reapply their shield every 20 seconds without needing to consistently attack. Most attacks are not fast than the spread out 3 ticks. Most random attacks happen in short increments with either a direct lunge or a field that players should be trying to move out of. Attacks that are fast enough to break the hit limit do not do enough damage where a shield would be useful. These type of attacks are usually channels that can be broken from a lunge or are very rapid but hit for very very small amounts (similar to Burning from Fire).

Regardless of the shield it will last, in general, up to 15 seconds. You can't gain a 50% Supercharge in the 20 seconds it takes for a Healers shield to cooldown. So a Healer shield is much more accessible and much stronger. Combine that with the fact that most random attacks are not frequent enough to reach the hit cap and you end up with Healer shields being a better group mitigation tool.

i guess my real point was that how strong a shield is is really only beneficial to the tank, which you kinda mentioned. whether its a healer or controller shield it doesnt matter. nit picking each other over which one is better or who should be getting whatever mod is kinda silly when both are going to only last for a short time anyway at level content.

as a tank, throw them all on me, i dont care.

Well if you are looking at the shield being useful to a Tank, Tanks should in general never get a Healer shield because they should have the most total Health. In this case yes a Controller shield is better but simply rotating in Hard Light Shield would be better for a Tank than a Controller shield would be. If you are an Ice Tank than all of your shields are better because they are much more consistent.

For the record I am not saying Controllers shouldn't use shielding Supercharges but instead saying that they should be used for useful situations. A Controller shield is useful for a) Power and b) when collectively you and your Healers agree that in the next few seconds there will be too much damage for your Healer to mitigate. Dominance is indeed useful to a Controller but for the right reasons. You shouldn't step over your Healer simply because you can.

As a group giving Tanks more survivability by keeping Dominance and Health separate is probably going to help the group more than making Tanks choose. Because Healer shields are better than any other group shield in general as a mitigation tool which does not rely on Dominance there is no reason to move Dominance from this particular perspective.

Wanting Dominance moved because of control duration and Controller personal shields are still good reasons but the question is are these reasons better than giving your Tank maximum survivability by having both mods available to them? (I guess I should also add in that Healers would get boosted healing by moving Dominance but it is less impactful as it does not double for Healers.)

I think it boils down to when and where shields are used. This could be a silly question but do healers have 8 man shields?

I'm not trying to nit pick, I'd like to discuss circumstances where a healer shield is more appropriate vs a troll shield. In my observation, a troll group shield is best utilized against mobs, multiple hits are coming but you have an assured amount of mitigation. A healer shield seems more useful against bosses where attacks can be successive but only singular. The difference being successive yet softer hits coming from multiple sides within a shorter timeframe vs successive and harder hits over a slightly longer period.

True but again, trolls only need to stun for a few seconds so tank can get aggro back. You don't need higher Dom than what's required, because you don't need to stun adds for that long. Anything beyond that is just gravy.

All i'm saying is when it comes to Dom, tanks get more benefit from it due to them being able to do everything a troller can, and in addition to that, they also boost heir damage mitigation. That's why it's my opinion that in a ' What role benefits more from Dom, Tank or Troll ' the tank deserves this more.

That and, i could be wrong here, but i'm pretty sure troller gear comes with more Dom then tank gear anyway.

Smart observation sir! And yes healers have 8 man shields as a supercharge.

All true, but you've basically confirmed my earlier post by saying, that you've had plenty of clutch moments when your shield was needed the most, making it an 'Oh sh** button'. Like i've said, the troller is the back up for every role or 'Last line of defense' if you will.

This is how i see it, you supply the power and debuffs, while doing as much damage as possible. When the tank and healer can't keep up with the damage in, and one of them goes down, then... Tadaa! You step in with troller shields for everyone, and basically saving the day.

My troll spec, it's vit and dom all the way through the blue and yellow sockets. It's more of a fun factor than a necessity, I enjoy CC. Keeping things under control until they're dead is my approach. The tank is the punching bag who also benefits from high dom. Tanks use dom a certain way and trolls use it a certain way. The vitality of dom is equal to both roles being their application of the stat varies.

I'm not saying you're wrong but look at it like this, when adds breakout, they become immune to CC effects for a short time. During that time, they will chop down the tanks health without any interruption from CC. Also, in boss battles, you will not be able to CC the boss at all, making Dom worthless for this purpose. This is why shield strength and damage mitigating stat boosts from Dom to a tank, are more more valuable IMO.

The comment that you've quoted, was in response to the OP, who felt some type of way about the color of the base generator mods, saying that Dom was more important to trollers than to tanks.
I was simply stating that this wasn't true as tanks reap more benefits from Dom.
But somehow it turned into more of a 'My role uses Dom better than your role' screaming match lol.

Ok.

I find my healer shield is good for about 4.5 seconds (the minimum) when I truly need it. It's just enough to pick someone up but will pop much sooner than a troller shield.

I wouldn't call it a screaming match and I still feel some type of way about it, but it isn't going to change to it's rightful color so that's that...
I also believe the 1 and only time I said dom is more important to trolls, it was followed by the words "or at least just as important" in my 2nd post. In other words, I conceded from the very beginning that both possibly need them equally. The rest of the time I was arguing that tanks don't need it MORE than trolls, which is what YOU said and continue to say.
The same way ppl are quick to point out that any dom over the required amount is icing on the cake, it could be argued that a tanks damage mitigation is icing on the cake since their gear comes with so much def.
It could also be argued that dom is outright more important to trolls since troll gear comes with more of it... devs didn't see fit to give more to you tanks until this relatively small (but useful) upgrade.
Guess it depends on how you look at it.
Oh... there is 1 other thing. When adds become immune to power control effects they are vulnerable to weapon control effects and vice versa, it alternates. So you don't have to stand there getting your life "chopped down" lol, you can push them with triange or whatever. There are some adds that become immune to both tho.

I believe the devs gave trollers more Dom with their gear so they don't have to waste that much effort on getting more, as it doesn't greatly benefit you that much more. This way they can focus on more damage, vitalization or health.

Tanks on the other hand, do greatly benefit from that damage mitigating boost that Dom gives them. Fire tanks get a 1:2.2 Dom to Health boost, Rage gets a 1:2/3 Dom to Health boost per surrounding add and Earth gets a Dom to Defense boost on a 1:1 ratio. Basically, it boosts the most important stat that each specific tank uses to take all that punishment.
That's the reason why Tank gear doesn't get alot of Dom ON TOP OF the relatively higher Def, because it would make us OP.
I don't know if you play Survival Mode, but trust that Tanks need any amount of damage mitigation they can get.

Last thing, yes the weapon CC and the power CC alternate but the window is usually very small. In my case i jump in a mob of adds and use a power to gain aggro (usually a knockdown power).
Then i proceed with a WM combo, wich in my case is a weapon CC. During that time trollers also use their CC, making the adds invulnarable to both types of CC quite often. If certain adds reset the aggro table and they can't be CC'd at that time, they usually pick off the healer or troller first... unless you're gadgets lol.