Work In Progress: What's Next for Arena PvP

Which is the problem. Its reducing the amount of counters available and the ones still there are now op i.e. deadly block. Create universal numbers for all counters not one persons should be stronger than another out the same tier gear as each other. As far as that video goes anyone saying it takes skill to spam tm is non constructive that is a completely biased and false statement. ppl are entitled to opinions but it doesn't mean their opinion isn't bs.

Scroll to 4:10 when he throws his strafing run... She avoids about 15 seconds if damage and the entire 50% sc, lol

Whats funny is these ppl are really trying to say thats a lvl of skill. All I see is the lack of skill that person so horrible with there power and combat skills they have to resort to cheap tactics for a win. Which is not good for pvp as a whole customization ok cool you wanna flip around go ahead. But it shouldn't have any damage capability because its not a skill it should be considered solely a character customization. And there shouldn't be anyway to become invulnerable enough to avoid a full sc come on thats not skill thats completely the mod the person has nothing to do with that. its a shame not good at fighting straight up and not good at using cheap tactics either that person should stick to pve.

You mean for a 967 to 0 loss, not win. Like I said, produce a video of someone using tumbling master to beat someone who knows what they're doing in PvP and it'll be a completely different story. At that point I would more than agree that it needed to be nerfed. Same goes for empowered channeling. People have said that it can be spammed to the point where someone runs out of power and dies, but I've never seen it done and the vast majority of people in PvP would never think of spamming it or tumbling master to that effect. If it were a staple of the top PvP players it would be one thing, but the fact remains that anyone good at PvP isn't going to roll around like that.

@Frankzilla

There is no problem with these mods. They do exactly what they say they do, there is no false information about them. These mods do not avoid combat mechanics, because again, if they did they people would be unbeatable while using them and we all know that is not the case. Again, just because you have these mods or utilize any single mod included in HT does not ensure you a win. You still have to know how to properly utilize them against your opponent. Your opponent could also just be a better player and beat you with many of the same mods you equip yourself. You continue acting like these mods ensure a win, when they do not.

You also made a comment about me not able to accept change. Now I need to ask you, are you not reading my posts entirely? I am only asking this because if you were reading my posts properly, you'd know I said countless times that I am for whatever the devs decide, however my preference is to keep HT in PvP. That means I have no problems adapting to any change the devs decide. So I'm not sure where you got the false notion that I have trouble accepting change. It seems to me it is you having trouble adapting to change, as these mods changed PvP for the better, and you are refusing to adapt to what has already changed.

As far as the video you showed us, if that was you fighting her, no wonder you don't like these mods, you don't know how to fight against them. Seriously Frank, pm me in game if you want to learn how to properly counter them. I'd be glad to teach you, or anyone else having trouble. What you need to understand about these mods is that they evolve combat mechanics. The vanilla mechanics are still there, but these mods force you to think outside the box in order to counter them on the fly. That is why these mods bring diversity, strategy, timing, and skill to a whole new level. Please do not hesitate to take me up on my offer.

First off go fight a good pvp healer using tm they are practically invincible. Secondly there are tons of videos of gadget users spamming photon to a victory thats what got the power nerf in the first place. With ec mod on top of that its forcing me to take damage from a move that I would normally be able to interrupt. No matter if the damage can be mitigated by a block its still FORCING me to take damage I shouldn't have to if im skilled enough to understand counter mechanics. Which creates a false perception of skill that doesn't really exist.

If im more skilled that some no matter what tier gear I have I can defeat someone who is not on my skill lvl. Now you can be easily over powered because skill is being limited to blocks and block breakers. Right now someone can roll you lunge them knowing it can be countered since they are invulnerable the counter doesn't register and they can block and counter your lunge. Its not right.

@RiskvsReward

Are you not reading my posts? I said I am for whatever the devs decide. However, since no decision has been made yet, I am voicing my opinion that I feel HT belongs in PvP. How is that afraid of change? How is that me not accepting change? You should really stop with these false notions. I've been here since beta, there isn't a single change that could drive me away. I can tell you as well as someone who has played PvP since the very beginning, HT was the best addition to PvP. It made an extremely stale game type fun again. Yes, this is my opinion.

As I said before Risk, these mods add diversity to all characters, they force us to think in ways that are outside the box, they force us to perfect our timing, and they also raise the required skill level significantly in a match. Just because people use the HT mods and trinkets does not ensure them a win. They are just tools in our tool box, and while we have them there, not every tool is used in every situation. That's the beauty of these tools, they keep us all on our toes, and are there if we feel we need them in particular situations.

Like I said before, we all have our preferences. There is no reason both sides can't enjoy the arena the way they like it. So again, I will repeat myself, I personally feel the best way to make everyone happy is to separate HT between objective and DM games. All HT remains allowed in objective arena types, and in DM arena types HT is completely removed, since the trinkets are already gone as well. This gives everyone choices on how to play the way they prefer, and ensures everyone can continue to play the way they prefer.

I will however restate again, that I am for whatever the devs decide, but I prefer diversity and strategy in my PvP. I prefer Ht because it keeps me on my toes, and I never know for certain what is coming next in PvP. I like that HT forces me to pay attention in my matches to what my opponent is doing so I always know when I can counter properly without severely punishing myself. I also love the team work strategies that HT brings to the table in PvP. That said, what ever happens, happens. In the end it is for the devs to decide.

You want HT because it adds Depth and customization. That's fine. We hate HT because it DOES change counter mechanics, it removes vulnerabilities.

So as a compromise, why don't we just flag tumbling/empowered for PVE only then call it a day? Take the ones out that cause issues. You would still have your depth/customization just sans 2 options.

The reason I will not agree to that, is these particular mods do not "cause issues" for me. I have no trouble combating and countering people who use these against me. So you are essentially saying. "Let's remove these two mods because these are the two mods giving people the most trouble". I don't agree with that at all.

People can learn to combat them just as I and others have done. They aren't uncounterable. They might ignore vanilla combat mechanics, but they can be countered with stuns, dodge, proper soda timing, etc. Again, these mods evolved our combat system to another level, they all did in one way or another.

I am not for dumbing down PvP, as PvP is again about who the better player is. Which player has the better understand of said mods, and said combat system, along with their power set. If someone lacks the proper skill or combat know how to counter any of these mods using mechanics available to all of us, then they need to adapt on the fly, or learn from their losses.

We all have access to the same HT mods, the same gear,, the same powers. There is no reason to remove HT from PvP. Anyone having trouble should just ask for help in game from players that know how to combat these mods, and players like me will help and teach them. I like the diversity that even mods like tumbling master bring, and again I hate tumbling master! but it is a legit tactic in my book. It is not uncounted able, therefore I personally see no issues with it. The same goes for empowered channeling.

Let me reiterate this again, yes these mods ignore the traditional vanilla combat mechanics, but there are other combat mechanics that exist, that can be used to counter these mods. So there is a counter, people just need to think and strategize about which outside the box counters nullify each mod. That is why I said HT forces us to pay attention to what our opponents are doing, and also that combat know how and timing is extremely important. You need those individual skills in order to overcome these. This is why HT belongs in PvP, in its entirety.

In the end, the devs have the final say. All we can do is wait and see what happens. I've been here through all the PvP changes since beta. There isn't a change that could drive me from this game. While I prefer the HT PvP over vanilla PvP because of the depth, strategy, diversity, and skill required to play with them, I never had issues in vanilla PvP either. Whatever happens, happens.

So you're not looking for a compromise, you're looking to just get your way. You want these mods that break the system because you use them. I get it Giggles. GL getting your way, back to the ignore button.

So far the only problems i see with HT mods are Tumbling and Empowered Channeling , and so far i havnt got beaten by someone using them yet but that being said i woulnt mind if they remove those two from pvp because i dont use them. Now about the the other ht mods why would they have to be removed as far as i have read on this thread the only problmes u guys have with ht mods are tumbling and channeling that is all. Instead of asking for removal provide ideas on how to fix them cause all i see from u guys is"mwuaaa... im getting beat by those mods i just cant adapt pls remove them all together mwuaaaa" lol. Every single time i see something new on the threads i see u guys saying "hey guys we dont know if this is gonna work but all we have to do now is adapt!" and look at u guys now complaining is just sad for real.

First, I've posted examples of what they could be already . Tumbling Mastery give it some kind of defense buff when you execute a roll, defensive move getting defensive boost but without breaking the counter system. Empowered Channeling have it increase the damage of channeled abilities by a decent amount, offensive power's offensive capabilities increased without breaking the system.

The problem with changing the current mods though is that it'd affect PVE negatively, I like the mods in PVE. In PVE breaking the system is basically just Power Creep as it's not removing one of the computers responses, the computer doesn't respond, they just have ****** AI with random choices.

Can you please elaborate on how to counter TM or EC mod?

So far i´ve only read that you can "stun them out" (TM), but you can stun them before or after, not during TM. Can you elaborate please?

Same for EC when you are below 35%?

You kidding me? That's proof that acro roll is overpowered and uncounterable. He supercharged at 4:16 and Nyema avoided almost all of the damage by acro roll spamming. It costs 0 power to use and it can avoid supercharges almost completely? Imagine a healer using this please. If you can't, here: It will be extremely difficult to kill a healer who is moving faster than normal in-combat speed and is avoiding 100% damage during the roll. Not balanced at all. Also, how well will stuns work on them when they are spamming shift to do the roll? Lol

And people want electroburst nerfed. Pfft.

And... he lost 967 to 0. If there were videos of countless people spamming tumble master and empowered channeling and dominating PvP it would make a difference... but there aren't. I've never seen a healer (or anyone) who just rolls around because of this mod. It would be one thing if it was a common thing, but it isn't. Maybe in lower match ups it is, but I haven't seen it on any of my alts either. It really seems the opposition to HT content is on a theoretical basis rather than one in practice. So far, three mods out of how many have been named as "problematic" with no actual proof given.

In every competitive match I've been in there are people using finishers knowing they don't have to worry about it. Youtube.com/prollyasian, watcht he PVP videos, see people launching finishers off with 0 regard for possible risks.

As A Goddess, I feel obligated to burn my worshippers and cursers with the flames of knowledge.

- WM just got released, and you guys are sitting here complaining about TM? Let's see who would win a match, & who would win it the fastest, somebody using only WM or somebody using only TM. People do WM combo, then clip it, then they do the same WM combo, then they clip another power, blah, blah, blah, blah.
(response)

- My subjects, TM is bad? Yet people sit here and spam weapon combos? I don't understand. I mean we've all fought somebody who uses MA & has spammed smoke bomb, why am I not seeing any threads on that? Let's state facts, all TM is, is dodge rolling with a kick at the end, plus you dodge dmg when you do your regular dodge roll, its just we land head up, legs straight, & you guys land crouched. I mean, it makes sense to have that! IMO, it should be innate. People can spam Weapon Proficiency, and not get interrupted, so idk why TM is bad.

- You guys say that HT ruined PvP, no... Hard Light Ruined PvP, hell... even earth ruined PvP, I mean you guys want to QQ about something being unfair, lets QQ about precision based powers. Precision is from weapon attacks, if the power isn't making my sword turn into a flaming death sword, that rains down upon all, then idk why it's precision based, it's not a weapon attack... Let's QQ about that.

- HT isn't going to be removed, nor is it going to be nerfed. It'll destroy this game. I mean, let's be honest. How many players from the "Good Ole' Days" are still around and kicking? Most have quit for ESO, or because of GU 36, or because of GU 25. Tanking will be obsolete, "Fortified Blocking" healing will suck. DPS will be boring, & everything will just be BLAH!

- This is to the poster of the video, RiskAndReward, let's talk about how you troll me? Yea, let's talk about that. Let's be constructive. Everything I post that you can tie my video to, you post it. It's really annoying. I was bored, & I was already t5, so there is no point of really trying, I just was having fun. It doesn't matter what I do, it's whether or not what I am saying is correct. HT does give diversity. There will be some misuses of them, & some exploits... wait wait wait, not even exploits because it's expected. I mean fighting an acrobat, I expect them to be jumping all over the place, avoiding damage, & flipping & kicking all over you, because kicking somebody & flipping should not cost any power, I couldn't see it. In the case of the movement debuff, then yes I understand.

- If you are talking about TM, let's talk about all the scrubs in the game who use 1H & One shot people...

- I have given you a list of many things to QQ about. Any one else who doesn't like HT please grab a tissue, HT shouldn't be touched a bit.

please don't remove role debuffs!

If they're spamming Smoke Bomb you block, a simple counter. If you use TM... no counter.

if your spamming TM, you stun... that is a counter.

(BOOM)

Edit: Another thing you guys don't understand is that, people pay money for these things... real money, so of course they'll have an edge, I didn't pay my money for the hell of it, I paid my money so I can have an edge over the opponent.