Sorcery: A Data-Driven Review

Appreciate the response from the dev team.

First off though, when constructing DPS loadouts, people have never simply thought about <Total Damage Dealt> / <Total Cast Time>. It has always been (even post-revamp):
- Can I clip it?
- Can I jump-cancel it while retaining full damage?
- If I cannot clip it or jump-cancel it for full damage, how long is the animation time and is the damage worth it?
- Is it AOE/Single-target?
- Is it frontal cone or frontal 180 or full 360 AOE?
- Is it range or melee?
- How is the split damage for multiple targets?

The only thing that the Revamp has added for dps considerations is the power cost and hence power efficiency of loadouts. Previously, no one really bothered that much with power efficiency since power in from controller power spamming, be it the enormous power in from just a single Controller during AM era or the power in from 2 Controllers pre-WM/AM era, was more than enough for people to dps to their heart's content.

Now though, power efficiency is considered as some loadouts really require having a lot of skill points, like for example maxing out Might/Power using 175 skill points.

Isn't Cyclonic Burst a movement power from Skimming? Its not an Iconic power. Does Cyclonic Burst do that much more damage than even Whirlwind Attack (Flight) or Whirling Dervish (Super Speed), both of which do decent damage at 200 power cost?

Absolutely disagree that Sorcery is an easy fix.

Its not just the projectile issue. Its also that Sorcery has been designated a Pet powerset and that any buffing of non-pet dps options will also buff the dps potential of pet loadouts.

Unless my eyes deceive me, Karmic Suspension has one of the longer if not the longest animation time as a Supercharge Generator (SCG), compared to all other powersets. For example, it certainly takes longer than Ice's SCG equivalent, Impaling Ice, not a whole lot longer, but looks just a tiny weeny bit longer.

But Heat Vision is the undisputed number 1 choice single target power for boss fights and easily displaces Condemn in any Sorcery loadout for boss fights.

I don't really get the point of this list, mainly as there are both PI applicators and PI leveragers in this list.

Just as an example, yes Sonic Cry does do a little less damage than Karmic Backlash. But while both are AOE melee powers, Sonic Cry applies Dazing PI and helps setup Sonic Shout for bigger damage. Also, Sonic Cry's melee range is just a tiny wee bit bigger than Karmic Backlash, by like one footstep.

An easy fix is for Soul Barrage and Soul Storm to become pure AOE range powers, and not be projectile based. This immediately resolves any issue with respect to cast time and how long it takes for the damage to actually hit the target versus other powers where the damage is applied instantly eg Transmutation.

And just from the name itself, Soul Storm should hit harder than Soul Barrage. So make Soul Storm frontal 180 and Soul Barrage frontal conal.

Also, both Soul Barrage and Soul Storm should be mobile powers, period.

Let Soul Bolt remain projectile-based, just as its name implies.

The proposed interaction of Transmutation and Soul Well is interesting. I would widen that to make Soul Well interact with more Sorcery powers, not just Transmuatation.

In my long-winded post in the Please Fix Sorcery ... Or No More Subs thread, I drew the following conclusions:
- Projectile issue
- No compensation for the loss in burst damage of Weapon of Destiny
- No compensation for the loss of one dot in Circle of Destruction
- Inadequate compensation for the loss of the 3rd Soul Well stack by buffing Soul Well's dot
- No compensation for the crit buff loss of Soul Well or the burst heal from Soul Well
- A supposed Pet powerset losing out to the Robot Sidekick Iconic power, which hits harder at melee range, and has more survivability as it shields up first.
- Loss of the previously most OP Supercharge - Arbiter of Destiny
- Inadequate compensation for the loss of Vengeance Aura buff, which is a legacy issue from GU32.
- Post-Revamp, Sorcery has lost its functionality, flavor and soul.

I would propose that:
- COD's 2nd dot be returned. Let COD both apply and leverage Bad Karma. This would also mean that Earth's Debris Field should have the same change.
- Either have Soul Well stack 3 times like before or have Soul Well inflict more damage on targets with Bad Karma or have Soul Well interact with other Sorcery powers and empower them to inflict more damage.
- Have the same consideration for Healing and have Soul Well interact with other powers for increased heals
- Make Offering be able to clip other powers (just like before), and just like how Ritualistic Word can clip other powers in a healing loadout.
- Make Condemn the low dps power it was before, and make it AOE and make it the SCG.
- Make the new power Karmic Suspension be a burst AOE power.
- Trying to balance pet loadouts and non-pet loadouts is an extra complication. Remove that complication. Make Guardian/Fury/Watcher all temporary pets rather than permanent pets. Let the pet-lovers use all three at the same time in DPS or Healer loadouts. This also makes balancing much easier as the pets now function more like dot powers, and also lessens the possibility that buffing non-pet options increases the dps potential of pet loadouts.
- Add all the dot damage and make Shard of Life be full burst, and still leverage on Bad Karma, instead of returning it as a PI applicator.
- Transmutation be retained as the PI applicator, as its name implies.
- Return Arbiter of Destiny to its former glory and restore the dps and healing buffs and make the buff a little stronger than Nature animal form, as you cannot use Weapon Combos in Arbiter form.
- Make Arbiter last 5-10 seconds longer in Pvp.

Yes, weapon expert builds can outperform the most OP powers. Try bow weapon mastery into smoke bomb for melee and DW weapon mastery explosive shot for AOE and flurry for single target.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...you-do-more-damage-than-the-op-powers.290512/

I tested it after seeing this guy in action and safe to say that they perform very well. I don't use it because what's the fun in playing weapon combo bs.

i tried WM explosive shot, or handblaster it is the same low demage then AM. The supercharge Generator is a joke, much to slow loading the Supercharge. An iconic loadout does more demage but the cast Animation time is too Long, so i have the same low demage then Weapon Mastery or AM. Currently is no way to Play with sorc fairly, in this days it was a underperforming Power.
The Devs broken Sorc with the revamp, i think we must wait many years before the bugfix come. I have no hope for Sorcery and a Little hope for DC. This method drives away the last loyality Players, the most People where frustrated after the Revamp, many Players where going. DC Needs quickly Solutions, or closed for ever...

I was speaking purely as a weapon expert build with full precision modded. It's not meant to be used as a hybrid built because it will under perform.

Arrow mastery with smoke bomb deals the most damage. It cannot be clipped. It's mostly about weapon buff and spamming the combo and where you can't melee the boss, you go ranged with WM explosive shot or flurry based on a specific situation.

This rotation will score far better than any pfft load out. Test it if you like.

is a Little better but low too

May i ask how its so low when im getting an extra 3.5- 4k more per sec using it, so for me its not low.but if you are expecting to beat nature or electric using this then i could understand it being low then. Ive read your other post about sorcery its well capable of doing over 10k.

Loadouts, no. You have to pick the correct weapon, again forced into this by the revamp and the imbalance of all weapons and masteries. Bow into smoke bomb is the overly abused weapon. Basically, if you put together a half a$$ loadout, since the weapon is over performing, it will make the power look better. I used 1h into both melee WM. They were situational, but hit as good as the bow smoke bomb, just not as fast. They are trying to force everyone into a PffT style because they still can't figure out a system to balance weapons. Melee powers and ranged powers are also in this boat. Some powers, like rage, benefit from risk reward powers, but not all melee powers across the board do.

Good luck!

Sorcery Bad Karma graphic FX bug fixed today.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...-hotfix-september-7-2017.290889/#post-4028328

Great turn around time by the Dev team. Kudos to them.

Not really. Here's a link in the bug section. Note the date. 30days to correct a visual is not a great turn around. Sorry, but most of these bugs have been reported over, and over, and over.

https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/sorcery-and-bad-karma.289395/#post-3999471

Fyi, bow into smoke bomb will be the next thing on the nerf list. So please stop saying that weapons focused can out perform OP powers. What you are actually saying is one one the WM is over performing and needs adjusted before we see everyone with bows.

C'mon!

Moja,

Thanks again for the guidance. You were right.

The best rotation ended up:

1. Soul Storm
2. Soul Barrage
3. Soul Bolt
4. Soul Bolt
5. Repeat

It resulted in an 8% increase in DPS over all Soul Bolts. The Soul Barrage first variant produced a 4% increase of all Soul Bolts. The interesting thing was that the Soul Barrage first variant resulted in one less rotation per 30 seconds. Again, and hate to be obtuse if you explained this to me, but Soul Barrage has some cast time delay at the end of the cast that doesn't relate to the cooldown period. I want to confirm that this is intended. I know when the Dev team initially conceived of the power that it was, but I am not sure if it is a now unintended relic from that time.

However, the testing data already showed this above experiment was already the case. The Projectiles outperformed Soul Bolt spam in all cases. I confused my data in the last post. It was the Vengeance against the Projectiles on single targets. Vengeance still outperforms them by a bit in that case. I can understand why, though, Vengeance may be obsolete if it were opposite

I tend to agree with all of this stuff with one exception. I am curious to see if there is some way to buff the projectiles and allow them to be a skill thing. Currently, there is not a real upside to them, but if there were, it would make things interesting.

For a long time, I beat the drum to get rid of the pets because this game just doesn't have the ability realistically allow them to flourish. As you probably know, it took a couple years for them make for Fury and Guardian to even be worth using after the level up process. Your suggestion to make them into temporary summons that can also be simultaneous is quite intriguing. However, my initial reaction is that many of the pro-pet Sorcery users may not like that adjustment. It may cause division among us, but I am interested to hear others' thoughts on that proposal.

Yes, Sorcery appears to lack a signature play style. That's more my beef than anything else. As you mentioned, this set has been so stripped down over the years. The damage lacks a bit here and there, and it is a complicated matter because of how powerful the Pets can be as you astutely assert, but if asked to choose, I would choose to have more intricate mechanics within the power set.

Anyway, thanks for all the food for thought. I hope it's taken seriously.

I feel that sorcery should be somewhat par with the fury loadout, only because earth is able to outperform its pet loadout and even with the changes done to jackhammer pepole will still spam the heck out of it. I have very mixed thoughts about pet loadouts.

Pets are a simple fix. Buff base damage without them and put a base damage penalty with them to compensate. Not difficult at all. You will obviously need to play with the numbers a bit to figure out the sweet spot where they perform the same, but that's the method that needs to be used.

But it still under performs.

What about the healing lol the healing is nothing compared to other healing powers, watcher doesn't do anything and isn't reliable anymore

This is more than 1 sec