Sorcery: A Data-Driven Review

Please keep this thread constructive.

General Notes:

The below data represents extensive testing of the Sorcery Power Set. The character stats are 963 might, base crit values, and no gear except a level 1 weapon. The character also has might VII expert base mods, which are a part of the 963 might calculation. Stats point allocation on the player character were otherwise left unspent on any additional stat points. The reason behind this setup is that I did not know the exact setup of the tester player characters during the revamp testing period. Please verify, duplicate, or disprove my results if you feel so compelled.

Bug Report:

The Bad Karma graphic FX last 6-seconds for the following applicators: Transmutation, Soul Siphon, and Karmic Suspension. The Bad Karma graphic FX last 9-seconds for Circle of Destruction. Testing reveals that Bad Karma itself last for 12 seconds, regardless of the applicator. This discrepancy is of critical importance because when the graphic FX drops, players think they need to apply Bad Karma, which causes them to alter their rotation. This adjustment by the player to reapply Bad Karma results in a DPS loss because the applicator powers listed above do not do as much damage as the powers that benefit from Bad Karma infected targets. In other words, a power that deals lesser damage powers replaces a power that deals more damage at that specific stage of the rotation. Consequently, this bug skews individual testing results within the player base and gives the illusion that the set is weaker at dealing damage than it is.

Review:

Recently, Sorcery has been a hot topic in the forums. Many folks question the overall viability and performance of the Sorcery Play from the Tray ("PFTT") builds compared to the other power sets. The general complaint is that the power set, post revamp, is unable to perform to par with a vast majority of the power sets, concerning damage dealing capability. The community often refers to it among the bottom two powers, along with Mental. Though the lamentations are numerous, two camps mainly comprise the concerns. The first contingent appears to believe that Sorcery's powers, as a whole, just do not hit hard enough. This lack of damage is their reason for the relative damage output deficiency to other power sets. The second group contends that the "Projectile" powers (Soul Storm, Soul Barrage, and Soul Bolt) too often hit friendly or inanimate targets, which absorb the projectile and prevent it from reaching its intended target to deal damage. The unintended interception results in a damage output impairment. They go on to say that these powers do not hit hard enough for the "interception risk" for lack of a better term. In either case, these conditions render the power set ineffective, as compared to other power sets. As such, those users may become subject to ostracization and other anti-social behaviors from the rest of the player base. It also makes the power set less fun to play.

The Data:


I tested all of the powers within the Sorcery power set, three iconic powers, and one movement mode power, to examine these claims and to verify if there was any truth. The initial analysis began on a single target because the most difficult encounters are often single target raid bosses that require an effective single target burn. The study contemplates each power cast singularly and by the maximum amount of times over a 10-second period, to evaluate their burst, sustainability, synergy, and efficacy over time. Then this same examination takes place on three targets instead of one.

As sorted by Damage per single cast on a single target:



As sorted by Damage over a 10-second parse on a single target.



Single Target Observations:

• Of powers within the power set, Vengeance out performs all other powers on an instant-cast basis over a 10-second period (11 casts in a 10-second parse).
• Because Vengeance can be cast once per second, it became the de facto unit of measurement for the rest of the powers. In other words, 'is this power worth using in any circumstance or would it be more efficient from a damage output standpoint to cast Vengeance x N instead?'
• The analysis also uses the Vengeance spam results to set a minimum, effective threshold for full, single-target rotations over longer durations. 'In a 30-second parse, how much more damage will it produce over spamming Vengeance 35 times?'
• Given the first observation, it generally follows that augmenting the damage and use of Vengeance should be the foundation of any single target rotation if the rotation excludes all abilities outside the power set, namely Movement and Iconic powers.
• Bad Karma appears to be a 10% damage buff.
• Heat Vision outperforms Vengeance, even when Vengeance benefits from the Bad Karma power interaction. Therefore, all single target rotations should be built around Heat Vision, if maximum single target damage is the goal. Not only does Heat Vision perform better, but it is also easier in most cases, as it's just one use of the power as opposed to repeated casts.
• Soul Siphon, Transmutation, Circle of Destruction, and Karmic Suspension apply Bad Karma for 12-seconds. No other powers apply Bad Karma.
• Circle of Destruction has a 12-second cool down while the rest of Soul Siphon, Transmutation, and Karmic Suspension have shorter cool downs of 3-seconds and 6-seconds. Given that Bad Karma lasts for 12-seconds, all of these powers only need to be cast once at this time despite shorter cool down periods, unless new targets emerge. Circle of Destruction also does the most damage per cast, so using any of the other powers, especially more than once per rotation will result in a damage loss. Again, the other powers are only more effective in instances where targets die and new targets quickly emerge.
• Soul Siphon and Transmutation are effectively the same power, from a damage and practical application standpoint in most in-game circumstances. As a result, Transmutation should be more varied in effect. It is a vestige of a power that's been changed too much from its initial conception. There will be more on this later.
• Karmic Backlash, Soul Well, and Final Ruin do not benefit from Bad Karma. Karmic Backlash used to take advantage of Bad Karma, in past iterations of Sorcery.
• Karmic Backlash does not appear to be worth the melee range risk, as many powers outperform it.
• The maximum amount of Soul Wells is two. Soul Well used to have a maximum count of three, in past iterations of Sorcery. This reduction in count limits Soul Well's damage output.
• Sorcery does not have a strong channel power, Final Ruin below 35% notwithstanding.
• Soul Barrage and Soul Storm do not produce high damage on a single target. In fact, Cyclone Push (and Down Draft and Throwing Knives), outperform both powers. Soul Barrage draws par with Cyclone Push through the Bad Karma interaction. Cyclone Push also has larger crits because it's one, more substantial hit.
• Cyclone Push costs the same and has a faster execution than Soul Storm and Soul Barrage. This advantage accrues over longer durations or within more rapid rotations.
• Cyclone push is not a projectile power but does have a more limited range.
• Sonic Shout and Freeze Breath both badly outperform Soul Barrage and Soul Storm, even though Soul Barrage and Soul Storm have truncated, channel-like casts, delayed cooldowns, and interruption vulnerabilities.
• Soul Barrage and Soul Storm are "projectile" powers, but there appears to be no apparent upside reward to their use on individual targets.
• The Pets function as DoTs and are the highest damaging DoTs.
• Guardian does more weapon damage than Fury. Fury does more damage if paired with Offering.
• Heat Vision, Sonic Shout, and Freeze Breath all apply power interactions that synergize with other power sets. Sorcery does not have any power interactions that synergize with other power sets. Therefore, it does not necessarily provide the same utility to a group.

continued...

Multi Target Data:

As sorted by Damage per single cast on three targets:



As sorted by Damage over a 10-second parse on three targets.



Multi Target Observations:

• Soul Bolt replaces Vengeance as the benchmark power on multiple targets.
• Predictably, Sonic Shout and Freezing Breath, which are multi target channel abilities, appear to be the second and third most damaging powers over a 10-second parse. Individually, they appear to be the most damaging powers per cast.
• Remarkably, Heat Vision and Vengeance, two single target super powers, finish quite high in the damage output rankings over a 10-second parse. They finished fourth and fifth respectively. That means that on paper those abilities are more effective at damaging single targets, even in a multi-target encounter, than powers that are multi-target based.
• Soul Barrage and Soul Storm creep up the damage rankings a bit, but given that Soul Bolt, Sonic Shout, Freezing Breath, and even Vengeance and Heat Vision, outperform them on damage output, there is really no reason to ever use these powers. This is especially true given the "projectile interception" risk and their prolonged "dovetail" / delayed cooldown period.
• Offering appears to be a moderately strong power. With Fury, it makes for a highly effective damage output combination. In fact, it's pretty much a must-use for any Sorcery player focused on maximum damage output.
• Karmic Backlash again demonstrates that it is not worth the melee range risk.
• Guardian shows remarkable consistency with weapon damage. It's almost always two Haymaker combos within a 10-second parse, the last hit of which strikes a wide swath of targets. Fury's combinations are more varied, which attributes to a large discrepancy in damage outputs. Fury's combos seldom hit more than two targets.
• Soul Well can be effective in longer encounters.
• Circle of Destruction again is the Bad Karma applicator of choice because it's cooldown matches the duration of Bad Karma and because the other Bad Karma applicators produce such low damage per cast, there's never a reason to cast them more than once per 12-seconds.

Validation:

Are either the first and second group warranted in their critiques?

Yes. Both groups critiques appear highly warranted. With the first group, it appears there are a handful of powers that simply do not warrant use from a damage dealing perspective. These powers include:

1. Karmic Backlash because it does not do as much damage as range powers, and it's a melee range power. There is no upside.
2. Soul Well does not do enough damage to warrant its long building up time. Even at two wells, the lack of PI with Bad Karma or Transmutation limits it's upside for damage dealing.
3. Soul Barrage and Soul Storm does not warrant use from a damage perspective alone. They are clearly outpaced by a handful of other super powers. The risk associated with the projectiles and the channel-like delay further cement issues with these powers. Their uses literally result in damage, as Soul Bolt or Vengeance can easily outpace them over the same duration.
4. Condemn does not hit super hard for a 12-second, 300 cost super power.

Recommendations:

1. Karmic Backlash should interact with Bad Karma and it should hit harder due to melee risk application.
2. Soul Well should have one of the following: Allow a third active Soul Well for 6 seconds. Allow Soul Well to receive a damage increase on targets infected with Bad Karma. Allow Soul Well to serve as a damage buff to all damage. Allow Soul Well to interact with Transmutation and produce a single hit of burst damage to nearby enemies (7m range) when a player casts Transmutation. Think of it as the same way Offering works with Fury or Guardian.
3. Soul Storm should be a full-fledged Channel super power. It should have four ticks, each tick costing 150 power, and it should apply Bad Karma since, Sonic Shout, Freezing Breath, and Heat Vision all apply PIs. Since it is a projectile, it should have a greater base damage amount like Heat Vision. After all, if this power is not up to par, the Iconic Tree has three such powers.
4. Soul Barrage should lose its extended dovetail, have its damage buffed at closer ranges (7m range) since it is a projectile, and increase the cooldown to three or six seconds depending on damage buff.
5. Transmutation should continue to act as a Bad Karma applicator and interact with Soul Well as outlined above.
6. Soul Siphon should both apply Bad Karma and interact with Bad Karma, causing extra ticks of damage to nearby enemies. Cooldown can be increased as needed.
7. Condemn should do slightly more damage
8. Circle of Destruction should not apply Bad Karma. It should interact with Bad Karma and produce extra DoT ticks, as past iterations have done.

Application in the Interim:

Hopefully, others have opinions on this, but it appears that a user will want to apply Bad Karma, Stack a few DoT powers, Use Fury/Offering, and then finish with either Vengeance, Heat Vision, Soul Bolt, or Sonic Shout / Freezing Breath depending on the number of targets. There are a handful of powers that simply do not make any sense to use from a mathematical standpoint.

Thoughts:

Feel free to challenge, verify, expand, etc. on any and all of the above. Please keep all commentary constructive.

Bump

Bump.

Bravo. Looks like it needs a base damage increase across the board to me

I will bump this every day until it's seen and acknowledged by a dev

I approve of this thread 100% sorcery is clearly lacking compared to other powers

Thank you for taking the time for this, hopefully this gets looked into soon.

Bump.

This was real nice. Probably going to get the same treatment as the rest and will get told now they need a video as proof.

Bump

Very sad this thread has received ZERO attention from the devs that ASKED for the feed back.

Not just feedback, they asked for data and here it is

nvm

Idk if this is ture or not, but someone told me a fully iconic loadout is out preforming sorcery based powers. If thats so,then that just sad.

This is very true.

Any power that has to use it sub out powers for iconics or movement mode powers, to me, is not working correctly.

Heat Vision hits like an absolute Mack truck compared to anything in the Sorcery Power set. It has great range, strong base damage, applies a good, 12-tick dot, and applies burning. With that said, the Data shows that Vengeance and Soul Bolt can keep pace and maybe outpace it under certain circumstances. Sorcery has a few solid dots that can stack and support Heat Vision or Veng/SB Spam. The Iconics don't have any DoTs, but they do have a PI with dazing. The lack of dots would probably end up being the difference with the edge to Sorcery, but it would be very close.

Without testing, I guess the iconic loadout would be something like:

• Heat Vision
• Gag Glove (applies Dazing)
• Batarang (applies Dazing)
• Sonic Shout (dazed targets take more damage)
• Robot Sidekick
• Neovenom Boost

I can actually test this later, just for fun. I will post the best rotations I've found for Sorcery, with the parse results for all of it. Should be interesting.

The iconic loadout would yield more due to the powers not missing and hitting harder giving it the edge over sorcery in a raid setting. Of course this varies on how the player uses them.

Not all powers need dots. The iconic loadout would be just like munitions. A small fire dot and the robot sidekick. Freeze breathe is another good one. But all youd need to do is find the best flowing 123 along with neo v.

Interested to see how it goes.

Today's bump.