Test Discussion Solar Amplifier Bug

Discussion in 'Testing Feedback' started by Batuba, Sep 3, 2020.

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  1. SilkyPawz Bunny

    What? is it another bug? I hope it gets looked at.
  2. Qwantum Abyss Committed Player

    Im gonna directly ask (Not expecting a response as my gut says the truth is what we all currently feel).
    How were you not aware for the last year when there were constant comments, threads, and even bug reports???
    If you honestly werent aware (which has to be false) who’s fault is that because it was put in the light for you folks non-stop from the beginning???
    This lays at you folks’s feet NOT the consumer that was sold a product that performed a certain way and after a year your attempting to say is not what was sold to us.
    That said heres the time line
    Art releases, ppl tell you its broke repetedly, continue selling it, bug reports an more ppl telling you, continue selling it anyway, more ppl telling you, ignore us leading community to believe its fine, continue selling it “as is”, after a year you try to tell us you didnt know, we call you folks on it, _______

    Fill in the blank, this is the part where the devs apologize an compensate as a show of good faith for YOUR mistake, for leading us to believe it was fine, for leading us to believe it was intended etc.

    What say you? The masses have gathered and we are all ears in the town square awaiting a proper address on the issue an what will done to reconcile.
    • Like x 4
  3. AutoBot Rage Active Player

    You know it is obvious that they REALLY didn't sit down with each other and discuss how the player base would feel with the plan to change Solar Amplifier nor did they ask people how they would feel about the changes. I get the TOS but this time around is different. From trying to squeeze as much money as you can out of people to nerfing, artifacts and powers..its all coming to the forefront now especially when money is involved.
    • Like x 3
  4. TheLorax Unwavering Player

    Question to devs and everyone. How would both parties feel if instead of just fixing the damage split bug, keep the Rank 200 AoE explosion the way it is on Live but tune it down?
    • Like x 3
  5. Qwantum Abyss Committed Player

    If it was just a small adjustment that didnt really change anything that would be far more palatable but it doesnt address or solve the underlying problem.
    U derlyi g issue is the devs k ew an did nothing for a year and that tells the community its perfectly fine an working correctly an now they wanna suddenly change it because.....reasons.
    A week or 2 or even maybe 3 in? Sure, thats a bug fix. This is a whole dif story an the issue is the negligence, deception, and silence.
    • Like x 3
  6. Charlieboy Active Player

    The empowered channeling has been on and off working for quite some time. I have noticed in the new solo, the Satyr's especially, interrupts HV and Avalanche all the time, same goes interruptions constantly in the Grail fight. Needs investigating pls.
    • Like x 2
  7. SekretVillain Loyal Player

    Anyone with brain cells know damage is supposed to split after x amount of targets so you cant even pretend you didn't know.
    • Like x 2
  8. The Doctor Time Lord Committed Player

    I have said this many times before. Players simply do not have to invest a lot of money to level up artifacts. Everything you need except for the seals drop in game. And the seals can be purchased with loyalty points. All it takes is patience. The choice to invest in quickly level an artifact is the player's choice. Nobody is having their arms twisted.

    As always this is just my opinion.
    • Like x 1
  9. Qwantum Abyss Committed Player

    Till i was on the forum i was u aware so your statement is false. Operating on the assumption ppl know things when its not in the text or descriptions etc is one of the reasons for things like this.
    It doesnt say it anywhere that i have found. If no one in your league explained it to you and your not anforum member and hapoened to read it somewhere too then how would you know?
    I never said i didnt know damage splits i said its logical that from rank 160 to rank 200 (for all that time an $ an metal) its a logical conclusion that it in fact was supposed to stop splitting. There is no text to suggest otherwise and devs were silent for a year an happy selling it as it was and made sure to dismiss all claims of any issue.
    What information was there to lead anyone to believe that it was not working as intended? All evidence and the timeline says it was intended. Theres literally no counter evidence. All the ppl claiming it was broken have is their gut, comparrisons to other things. It was all speculation.
    Its speculation till a green name speaks up an they didnt. Their silence is evidence it was fine, selliNg it for a year or more as is is evidence it was fine.

    I cant stress enough that i dont even care about the art itself. Its not about that. Its the principle. Devs knew an with their silence they told us it was fine. Everything was peachy for a year ish and now suddenly it gets changed drastically after the investment.
    Its shameful practice at best and openly negligent. Why anyone would defend this is beyond me (not sayin your defending it FYI). As it stands, evidence says they misled us on purpose for monetary gain an are ready to move on so they are nerfing it a year later callin it a bug fix. Its not a bug, it was designed this way to sell. If it were a bug, a green name would have commented within the first few posts an bug reports. Not a year later. Sorry, devs did this to themselves. They deserve ever ounce of backlash they Get uNless They make it rite.
    • Like x 2
  10. Qwantum Abyss Committed Player

    Agreed, issue is we make these choices based on the info we have. The art doesn't say if the damage should split or not so its anyones guess. Devs openly sold this as is an dismissed any claim of imbalance, bug, issue or anything an now after they made their $ they are nerfing it drastically calling it a bug. No one is buyin that BS.
  11. SekretVillain Loyal Player

    Anyone who has ever DPS and knows what they're doing know of damage splitting. If they try to say otherwise is BS.

    That would essentially be like me being a healer for nearly 10 years and claiming that I have no idea of field of view when it came to healing, that would be the biggest load of BS and anyone who has healed would know it. Just like now with solar amp and DPSing, anyone who took this to 200 is a competitive DPS so they know full well of damage splitting.
  12. Vengeance Gray Level 30

    Having read all the posts on this thread everyone is correct. The artifact did not work as intended, players have been sending feed back to the Devs that went unanswered, players in the know took advantage of the artifact being faulty, the artifact is being fixed to work as intended, and the Devs were negligent in dealing with the situation.

    I've been playing this game for 8 years, and while I'm a good player, like many in the game, I don't spend a lot of time of the forums checking out the bug reports and feedback. In many of the leagues that I've been in, most people weren't aware of the forums.

    Many of the players that I've come into contact with don't understand the formulas in the power descriptions, how to find the base modifiers, or even how artifacts work (like EoG "Stealing" damage).

    I myself wasn't aware that Solar wasn't splitting at 200. I leveled my Solar to 200 because I saw videos and guides showing that HV could be used for Add Loadouts in addition to ST and with the extra stat might and 1% extra might, it was one of the more powerful arts in raw stats. I became aware the splitting issue reading this thread.

    The artifact overperformed and is being corrected. I don't have a problem with that. I don't regret leveling my Solar to 200 as it's still the most powerful art stat wise, and for ST damage, which is what most Boss fights comprise of (and let's really be honest, boss damage is the most important damage, not clearing adds). Those of you with the same opinion are correct.

    At the same time, players like me, who weren't aware of the details of how Solar should work, and spent much time and money leveling it on the recommendation of other players, who may or may not have been aware, have a valid point of feeling misled or duped, especially considering the issue was raised many times before and nothing was ever said to even confirm the Devs were aware of the issue.

    While I wouldn't call what the Devs did "bait and switch", it is very clear, whether intentionally or unintentionally, they were negligent in responding to the feedback, thus making them complicit. It's more similar to when company issues a recall for a product. They either replace the product, refund the money, or fix the product at no cost to the consumer.

    Both things are true, and everyone's feelings and opinions are valid. I don't know how the issue should be rectified. What I do know is that attacking each other over who's right and wrong is not going to solve anything.

    Everyone is right.
    • Like x 5
  13. ALB Dedicated Player

    That make it worse. Hiw much time and energy do you think it take to get an artifact to 200 without cash? I agree with the change, but the devs have to get on artifact bugs immediately
    • Like x 1
  14. AV Loyal Player

    My previous post pointed out several of the major issues with this nerf in addition to identifying that it would also impair Solar Amp's ST performance in multi-target scenarios due to the unprecedented use of "splits after 1" rules for both the burst and the AoE DoT. It also reiterated the actual bugs exhibited when the artifact is equipped.

    The next 3-4 posts really get into the minutia of all this and they will demonstrate unqeuivocably that this change is predicated under false pretense in that Solar Amplifier's current, live AoE design has never overperformed relative to comparable alternatives and that it is overall on par with or inferior to other DPS artifacts in AoE situations. It will also show both that Solar Amplifier's current design on live makes it one of the best balanced DPS artifacts in the game and that the current design on test makes it the absolute worst AoE artifact in the game (even worse than artifacts with no intrinsic AoE component).

    Without factoring in group effects or PI considerations,* the current best-in-slot (BiS) artifact combo for ranged loadouts in pristine, 8-target scenarios is Solar Amplifier + The Transformation Card + The Strategist Card. In AoE scenarios with fewer targets and in practical use, BiS performance is achieved by replacing Solar Amplifier, though it may still be used in exchange for trailing behind optimal performance to enjoy its fun factor and versatility. Of all AoE BiS artifacts, Solar Amplifier is the only one that loses to others in different AoE scenarios. Of all AoE BiS artifacts, the % DPS gain provided by Solar Amplifier is, in the absolute best case scenario, on par with that of other BiS artifacts; in practical AoE scenarios, Solar Amplifier is a % DPS loss relative to other BiS artifacts.
    *Note: In raid scenarios, the group DPS value of a Tetrahedron of Urgrund makes it technically the most powerful DPS artifact in the game, the combined Might gains from which are like adding an extra, invisible and invincible DPS player to a group whose performance is as good as the group's DPS average. Similarly, on a power that loses a significant amount of DPS when establishing its own PI, Grimorium Verum is on par with these.

    We will compare AoE rotation performance in 8-target and 3-target scenarios while systematically cycling BiS artifacts out at a time, replacing them with Tetrahedron of Urgrund as a neutral alternative in favour of Solar Amplifier performance to observe their actual DPS contribution. This will then be compared to and normalized with current test server build performance.

    In order to avoid any appearance of bias or favouritism, I have utterly and completely steelmanned the pro-nerf agenda's position beyond all reasonable measure via the following:

    - All evaluations are conducted in absolute pristine pro-Solar Amp conditions such that it is getting the maximum performance possible relative to the scenario being evaluated.
    - We are neglecting the fact that, in actual practice, hard ccs and all physics effects result in the complete loss of both the AoE and PI application portions of Solar Amplifier (see quoted post above).
    - We are neglecting the fact that, in actual practice, there can be a complete loss of the AoE and PI application portions of Solar Amplifier due to forced target switching (see quoted post above).
    - The evaluations are performed on a power that benefits from the PI, giving Solar Amplifier its maximum possible game value.
    - The non-Heat Vision rotation we use for comparison is the first thing that popped into my head and was not crunched to determine if better rotations were available. This means that the results are biased towards rotations with Amplified Heat Vision and that Solar Amplifier may be providing even less of a DPS contribution than that seen below.
    - The Non-Solar Amplifier rotations are performed with laissez faire clipping timing/precision and non-Solar Amplifier rotation errors are left in to ensure performance most closely reflects real-world performance when used by an average player. Conversely, the Solar Amplifier rotation requires no clipping and is evaluated with best-case performance.
    - All builds use no more than four powers, leaving room for Robot Sidekick and a Supercharge. Neither Supercharges nor extrinsic buffs (ie from other players) are used.
    - Non-artifact gear/stats are kept constant throughout.
    - Tetrahedron of Urgrund was selected as the swap artifact because the might gains benefit Solar Amplifier slightly more than they do other artifacts due to Solar's non-split. Similarly, player Health, Might, and Damage were buffed to the maximum values intrinsically possible to best favour Solar Amplifier's non-split and evaluation was conducted at max CR.
    - These results were evaluated over multiple longform parses. The longform parses shown below are reflective of the overall averaged results.
    - These evaluations do not consider Lernaea's Amulet, which would be BiS in place of The Transformation Card. This is because it is generally impractical to maintain Lernaea's offering stacks while transiting hallways and it is impractical. While it is no less practical than the artifical scenario we've created for Solar Amplifier's benefit, we've left it out give Solar Amp the best and most contrived advantages possible.

    Artifact DPS Contribution Evaluation
    8-Target Scenario
    Note: As per above, this is the absolute best case scenario for Solar Amplifier and it is artificial in nature. All other targeting scenarios result in ever diminishing returns and the artifact does not remain a BiS option.

    BiS Selection
    Artifacts: Solar Amplifier + The Strategist Card + The Transformation Card
    Amplified Heat Vision > Fireburst > Spontaneous Combustion > Wildfire > Repeat

    This is the strongest 8-target artifact combo in artificial conditions and results in 130908 DPS.

    BiS Standardized with Non-Solar Amplifier Rotation Requirements
    Artifacts: Solar Amplifier + The Strategist Card + The Transformation Card
    Amplified Heat Vision > Fireburst > Spontaneous Combustion > Wildfire > Repeat

    This rotation is as close to the non-Heat Vision rotation used as possible. This is solely to counter any argument that rotational differences somehow abnormally affected results. This results in 128493 DPS, but this knowledge is purely academic.

    DPS Impact of Replacing The Transformation Card
    Artifacts: Solar Amplifier + The Strategist Card + Tetrahedron of Urgrund

    Replacing The Transformation Card results in 123900 DPS, a 5.4% DPS loss (lowest loss of all BiS artifacts discussed)

    DPS Impact of Replacing The Strategist Card
    Artifacts: Solar Amplifier + The Transformation Card + Tetrahedron of Urgrund

    Replacing The Strategist Card results in 112440 DPS, a 14.1% DPS loss (highest of all BiS artifacts)

    DPS Impact of Replacing Solar Amplifier
    Inferno > Freezing Breath (2-ticks)(tap cancel) > Mass Detonation > Fireburst > Freezing Breath (2-ticks)(tap cancel) > Mass Detonation > Fireburst > Mass Detonation > Repeat
    Artifacts: The Transformation Card + The Strategist Card + Tetrahedron of Urgrund

    Note: This was the first rotation that popped into my head. As mentioned, this was not tested to detemine if a better rotation exists and was executed with errors and poor clip timing left in. This rotation technically loses to a Grimorium Verum variation seen later when normalized for an external Tetrahedron buff (and that rotation is also more practical for real-world use). As such, this is demonstrably not the best-case non-Solar Amplifier scenario.
    Replacing Solar Amplfier (not replaced with best-case substitute) results in 112782 DPS, corresponding to a DPS loss of less than 13.8% DPS in its best-case scenario (less impact than losing Strat). As per below, a Grim with an extrinsic Tetra buff results in 113287 DPS, reducing the loss to 13.5% in this artificial environment. In practice, the loss would be much less.
    (continued in next post)
    • Like x 3
  15. AV Loyal Player

    8-Target Summary
    BiS: 130908 DPS
    Strat replaced: 112440 DPS -> 14.1% DPS loss vs BiS
    Solar replaced: 112782 DOS -> less than 13.8% DPS loss vs BiS (meaning Solar is less impactful than Strat in AoE)
    Trans replaced: 123900 DPS -> 5.4% DPS loss vs BiS
    Note: As mentioned, Trans and Lernaea's would technically blow these out of the water but aren't being considered to pretend to be as pro-nerf as possible. As such, Solar's best-case contributions are actually middle-of-the-road vs the field.

    This demonstrates that in the absolute best-case scenario for Solar Amplifier, where it is given every possible benefit and advantage in the most pristine conditions and compared to a from-the-hip rotation not using Heat Vision at all, Solar Amplifier is still merely comparable to The Strategist Card, with The Strategist Card still beating it in AoE performance.

    3-Target Scenario
    Note: As per above, this is the a more realistic AoE DPS scenario and one in which Solar Amplifier is no longer on par with other artifacts. Because Solar Amplifier is, in all cases, detrimental to performance here, analysis will demonstrate the degree to which non-Solar Amplifier builds outperform it.

    Solar Amplifier's Best-Case Selection
    Artifacts: Solar Amplifier + The Strategist Card + The Transformation Card

    When the 8-target BiS artifact combo meets fewer targets, it results in inferior performance. The 3-target scenario results in 77639 DPS.

    Ranged "BiS" Selection
    Artifacts: The Strategist Card + The Transformation Card + Tetrahedron of Urgrund
    Note: As mentioned, this technically loses to Strat + Trans + Grim but we're maintaining the Tetra swap to further steelman in favour of anti-Solar sentiments and in the interest of standardization.

    This results in 98593 DPS, a 27% gain vs Solar Amplifier.

    Melee Variants (with clip PI and without clip PI)
    Artifacts: The Strategist Card + The Transformation Card + Tetrahedron of Urgrund
    Whirling Dervish (3-ticks)(Dashing Combos)(clipped with) > Flashpoint > Mass Detonation > Repeat (with, when available, either hard-cast Enflame or Stoke Flames clipped onto Flashpoint)

    This results in >105000 DPS, a >35.2% gain vs Solar Amplifier.

    3-Target Summary
    Solar's BiS: 77639 DPS
    Actual Ranged BiS: 98593 DPS, 27% DPS increase vs Solar Amplifier
    Melee: 105000DPS, >35.2% DPS increase vs Solar Amplifier

    Although with 8-targets it only falls slightly behind The Strategist Card, Solar Amplifier AoE builds lose to essentially any/all non-Heat Vision build to a drastic degree when facing fewer targets, making it virtually worst in slot in conditions more closely aligned to actual practice.

    Normalized Nerf Delta Evaluation
    Post-Nerf BiS (Test Server)
    Artifacts: The Strategist Card + The Transformation Card + Tetrahedron of Urgrund

    Test Server Trans + Strat + Tetra performance comes in at 78775 DPS.
    Note: This rotation's performance is consistent pre/post-nerf so it will be used to normalize our overall test performance with the best-case scenario testing conducted on live. 112782/78775 = 1.43.

    Solar Amplifer's BiS (Test Server)
    Artifacts: Solar Amplifier + The Strategist Card + The Transformation Card

    Post Nerf Solar Amplifier results in ~67735 DPS on Test Server. 67735 x 1.43 = 96976. Therefore, when normalized to the same scale as our live performance, the Solar Amplifier's best-case post-nerf performance is approximately 96976 DPS, a 25.9% loss of AoE DPS vs its current form. This is a greater differential than that of any other artifact, almost twice the current worst-case scenario loss of any artifact substitution.
    Note: Since post-nerf Solar Amplifier splits after 1, it performs equally poorly in all AoE situations regardless of the number of targets. It is as weak as using a 100% ST power in an AoE situation.

    Comparison vs a 100% ST DPS Artifact (with an ~15% Might Advantage in Solar Amplifier's Favour)
    Artifacts: Grimorium Verum + The Strategist Card + The Transformation Card

    Despite the massive Might ga,p this results in 99293 DPS, a 2.4% DPS gain over post-nerf Solar Amplifier. If we apply the Might difference to the non-pet, non-tap portion of the DPS, this would have resulted in 113287 DPS, a 16.8% DPS gain over post-nerf Solar Amplifier (and only a 13.5% loss vs current Solar BiS).
    Note: This also demonstrates that Grimorium Verum, with an extrinsic Tetra, is also a well balanced artifact comparable to The Transformation Card when PI application can be taken advantage of with an extrinsic Tetra buff present, as previously asserted.

    Post-nerf, Solar Amplifier becomes the worst DPS artifact for any encounter that isn't 100%, pure single target. The post-nerf DPS loss when switching to Solar Amplifier is up to twice that of switching other DPS artifacts. In AoE situations, Post-nerf Solar Amplifier loses badly to even pure ST artifacts like Grimorium Verum.


    Overall, as demonstrated above, the longstanding iteration of Solar Amplifier currently on live does not overperform relative to comparable BiS artifacts. To the contrary, in this artificially enhanced best-case scenario, neglecting all of the bugs that impede its performance in real-world application, it still loses slightly to The Strategist Card (and notably to Tetrahedron of Urgrund if we factor the combined DPS gains of the entire group) and to Lernaea's Amulet. In realistic AoE scenarios where fewer targets are hit consistently, Solar Amplifier loses badly to all other DPS artifacts for both ranged and melee builds.
    (continued in next post)
    • Like x 3
  16. AV Loyal Player


    - The current iteration of Solar Amplifier is not only balanced for both ST and AoE performance but it actually, overall, underperforms in AoE in realistic circumstances relative to all alternatives assessed. Solar Amplifier's current AoE performance is to its ST performance as The Strategist Card's ST performance is to its AoE performance.
    - This change has been predicated under the false pretense that Solar Amplifier was overperforming in AoE when it never was.
    - Due to the fact that the current live version of Solar Amplifier is so well balanced compared to comparable artifacts, a balance of probability suggests it is extremely unlikely that the non-split at 200 was unintentional and even more unlikely that it could have honestly been considered to be a bug by anyone in terms of actual performance.
    - Solar Amplifier has never been over-represented in in-game AoE builds used by real players, with most players opting instead for short-range, max performance builds. The only reason it is prevalent in ranged AoE builds in the Master Guide here on the forums is because of the character/video limits. There was never any evidence, either real or which might have been reasonably perceived, to suggest there was anything untoward about Solar Amplifier's practical performance.


    Real talk time: what the hell is actually going on here?

    First, there was exactly one bug post about Solar Amplifier's split and it sat on the front page for a very long time; it is not believable that no dev saw it. I find it impossible to take the explanation provided at face value.

    Second, as I just demonstrated, no aspect of this artifact has ever overperformed... You literally just buffed The Strategist Card, which was already the best AoE artifact by a wide margin, to improve its ST performance and Solar Amplifier isn't nearly as potent overall (ie. when not just cherry picking results to make Solar Amplifier perform better than it actually does like we did here). My methods in this analysis were intentionally, almost criminally biased in favour of the pro-nerf explanations given to give them every potential benefit of the doubt... I gave Solar Amplifier every possible advantage, no matter how minute, outlandish, or unscientific... Practically cooking the books to give it the absolute best showing possible... and it still couldn't "overperform" by any metric, even going so far as get utterly demolished on 3-targets, which are the closest reflection of a real-world scenario due to the varied and chaotic nature of combat combined with the varied number, placement, and behaviour of enemies.

    Third, The Strategist Card is, effectively, well beyond a non-split artifact. No matter how many targets it procs on, those targets take the exact same amount of damage and more targets means more proc opportunities, so the argument that non-split = bad and unintended holds no water. Further, the benefit of Trans is applied the same no matter the number of targets. The benefit of Tetra is applied the same no matter the number of targets. The PI-application benefits of Grim are applied the same no matter the number of targets. Every single artifact that can be considered AoE BiS in any way has the exact same potency no matter the number of targets present. Every AoE-relevant DPS-specific artifact is balanced around that concept. You cannot make an artifact have less potency the more targets present like you've done with Solar and maintain any semblance of balance. Also, Solar doesn't just take up an artifact slot but a loadout slot as well. How something splits has absolutely nothing to do with its actual balance or real world performance. For example, Electricity's absolute "best" AoE rotation, which hits like a truck vs sparring targets and is heavily non-split, will outright badly lose to burstier, more mobile, standard split loadouts in actual practice in most circumstances unless the tank super-pulls while somehow keeping the throng stationary and the other DPS are somehow killing slowly enough for Elec's rotation to actually reach maturity, which is so specific as to be probabilistically impossible outside of manufactured conditions in a top-relevancy elite raid. I've only ever seen that attempted once and it still didn't work because the other DPS were able to kill fast enough that Elec's nutsiest AoE was only on par with theirs. There's more to balance than smacking a Sparring Target and, based on the relative balance of a wide variety of mechanics in DCUO when compared with other games, I believe you know that... which makes all of this all the more bizzare.

    Fourth, I believe you know all of this, or at the very least ought to be aware. The Master Guide, which I have shown and discussed with devs, cautions that the Heat Vision AoE builds therein will do less damage in actual practice unless short-range players get dummied and that they're only there to provide a versatile, consistent, standardized ranged option if people don't want to melee. The only reason I don't go into this ridiculous level of detail in there and include non-Solar ranged builds, which will generally beat it in actual practice, is because of the character and video limits of posts and the fustercluck that is trying to keep massive post groupings organized with this forum system.

    Lastly, if we are to believe that the devs were never aware of how Solar Amplifier was programmed, despite the fact it was balanced so perfectly with pros and cons that left it right in the middle of the field overall as clearly demonstrated herein, where the hell did you get the idea that it was overperforming or "bugged?" Devs stated they didn't see the only bug post or any of the constant discussions or the fact that it was the primary selling point of leveling the artifact to 200 for over a year.... so what's your "information" source? Why isn't it public? And why was it taken seriously with all evidence to the contrary? Further, why is it considered appropriate to change a balanced artifact with an explicit AoE component into the single worst AoE artifact in the game and in a manner that also impairs its ST performance in any multi-target situation? Why was this allowed to go so far?

    This is all a staggering misstep that absolutely shatters my confidence in DCUO not only for how unprecedented this is but for the fact that anyone at any stage of the process thought this was a good idea. I have defended some flabbergasting decisions to people but this is indefensible and looks profoundly shady. Regardless of what the actual dev intent is, or what agenda is being advanced, the signals this gives out do not shed a positive light and there is a tangible cost to that. This image reflects a player who doesn't even have a 200 Solar Amp and is just reacting to the fact you'd even do this kind of thing at all:


    Please stop listening to wherever all these bizarre, pointless "bright" idea changes are coming from. I'm not talking about the normal, understandable changes or even the less-understandable-but-begrudgingly-quasi-reasonable overcorrections... I'm talking about the "why would anyone in their right mind even give a damn about this innocuous non-issue for the devs to spend their time on it" and the "who in their right mind thought this was a good idea" silliness out of left field. I've come to accept "two steps forward, one step back" in any general ongoing development (not just with this game), but this is a full sprint in the wrong direction paired with a trip and a rough slide down a rocky hill.

    This all obviously took a lot of time and effort and I present it with the sincere intent of providing you with the most honest and constructive feedback possible so that you can make good, well informed decisions.

    You are incorrect. The game has four fundamentally different split rules: "Splits after 1," "splits after 2," "splits after 3," and "no-split." "Splits after 2" is merely the most common. "Splits after 1," which is what the devs intend to change Solar Amp into, is the least common. No-split is the most common after "splits after 2." These variations have existed in the game for, to the best of my knowledge, as long as DCUO has existed.

    Of the 40 unique LPVE characters, 33 (82.5%) have at least one non-split AoE power with many having multiple non-split AoE powers and some having entirely non-split AoE powers (ie every single one of their powers are non-split). As I just demonstrated above, a powers' split behaviour has no intrinsic value in determining its overall balance or performance. Most of those powers, as with the case of Electricity and just like Solar Amp, only do well in very specific scenarios and are nothing to write home about aside from their toolbox utility. They also have no bearing on whether a rotation is better or worse than any other rotation. Overall potency is not a direct function of split behaviour.

    While I feel this is a noble sentiment, if Solar Amplifier isn't working as intended than why is its performance on par with or below that of other artifacts, as demonstrated? Are the devs saying they always intended for it to be weaker than artifacts that came later? That would contradict their statements that they're intent on avoiding power creep and really it just doesn't hold water in general. Similarly, why does the "intended" behaviour we have now on test make Solar Amp considerably worse than any other DPS artifact in all but completely ST situations, losing even to purely ST artifacts like Grim?

    There is simply no logic or evidence that supports the assertion that Solar Amp wasn't working as intended. If we assume the devs did a bad job of balancing the artifact at 200, then it logically should not have performance so closely in line with that of other artifacts. If we assume the devs did a bad job then but are doing a good job now, Solar Amp should not logically be so drastically underperforming on test server. If we assume the devs did a bad job then and are also doing a bad job now, it would mean they accidentally programmed an artifact with almost perfect overall balance with nuanced strengths and weaknesses that shined in some scenarios and would be replaced in others. It doesn't add up no matter how we look at it.

    My thoughts on this are that it would only be an appropriate solution is the artifact was actually overperforming in any way. As seen above in its absolute best case scenario, the likes of which could never be consistently or reasonably attained in actual practice, Solar Amplifier is still outperformed by The Strategist Card. In nominal scenarios, Solar Amplifier is beaten by essentially every other artifact. It already has a very specific niche so making it any weaker than it is would only make other artifact less balanced in comparison.

    I honestly don't know where this bizarre sentiment sprung up from that Solar Amplifier is some god tier broken artifact like pre-nerf EoG was. Whoever's been spreading that around has been lying to people. It's just another artifact. The overall artifact balance right now is actually really good. Hell even Source Shard will beat BiS artis when used in the niche for which it was designed. Every single Might DPS artifact has comparable overall value right now to such an extent that there is value in having them all.
    • Like x 3
  17. L T Loyal Player

    I explained that a few posts back. Batuba has alread replied that he is looking into it.
    • Like x 1
  18. Stanktonia Committed Player

    This in actuality shouldn’t be nerfed, but again, the haunting complainers have swayed the devs to a decision that isn’t benefiting the playerbase at all. Solar flare’s non splitting damage wasn’t over performing in aoe situations at all, was there a benefit, yes, but was it overcompensating, no, not one bit. Nerfs in general never work because said adjustments are usually toned down entirely too much. Out of the recent nerfs, the only one that has been decent was the flurry change, even nature’s nerf is too much, and I’m saying this as a primary prec player. I already have an idea of what’s next to be nerfed, and if it ruins my play style I’m out.
    • Like x 1
  19. Control Creed Well-Known Player

    Well... hopefully they will buff Acrobat and Flight Movement mode powers to match Superspeed instead of making the whole game a complete chore... I don't understand the whole nerfing a power or artifact that anyone can get thing... it would be different if we were still doing the monthly flavor of the month power thing.
    • Like x 4
  20. Qwantum Abyss Committed Player

    Now tour moving the goal post from “anyone w/brain cells” to “anyone who really knows what their doing” an “been healing for 10 years”.
    So what about everyone who is newer or in a crap league or doesnt have mic or isint on forum or isint at the top of their game?
    Thats my point. Whats common knowledge to One player doesnt by default mean common knowledge to all players.
    Till its explained to you l, theres no way to know based on info available ingame an the info available ingame is not clear at all.
    The time line and events are what makes this shady.
    Cant stress enough im not sayin it wasnt broke. Im sayin its been openly Claimed as broke for a year an devs silence tells us its not broke. who should a new player listen to? The devs sayin its fine or random players they dont know sayin it is? The time line for this and actual info available said it was not broke an not needing fixed and not getting fixed. Thats the issue, the deceitful negligence of the devs on this
    • Like x 2
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