So....we are deserters now?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Reinheld, Oct 12, 2021.

  1. Proxystar #Perception

    Because even if it is statistically a small minority (a number we don't actually know, other than being told it's small) that small number of people are still wasting the time of up to 7 other individuals every single time they block that queue, I'm not sure that can be considered any more or less acceptable than telling you to sit down for a minute if you decide that's the approach you want to take, agree?
  2. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    I'm not exactly sure who you are replying to. I never said I'm upset about the randomness (please point it out when I did). I never said I'm upset with the 1 min penalty (again, please point it out if I did)...I actually said I understood why they did it in my OP(although not sure why they felt the need to hide it from the notes)...to penalize cherry picking. I never said I HAD to run Omni, I choose to when I have time...I will also choose to cherry pick, even with the penalty. I don't do it for the marks (for marks I go to bounties...as I've said since day 1 of the changes announcement), I do it for the box. I've made about a billion dollars from the OP collections I've gotten from them as well as some cats I needed to raise up a few alt adaptive mods, which makes it worth running...even if I have to pass on 10 bad runs for a good one I KNOW will complete relatively quick, 10-15 min re-queuing is waaaay better than 60+ min in a potentially bad run. And don't get me wrong...there are days against my better judgment I'll take whatever shows up and try to tough it out, but 50% of the time my gut was correct and I should have skipped out on the queue pop. Maybe this is not your experience....that's awesome for you.

    And believe me I'm well acquainted with the custom menu. Once I can actually get to it off the wonky new menu, it's pretty much all I'll use (you know...because you can queue more than 1 thing at a time)...for STU or Current content...everything EXCEPT for the few Omnis I do for the journal. You are missing the point though that the ONLY reason I'm queuing up that Omni run is to get the box....There is no box from the custom menu, so no purpose in running via custom for that run. I'm not looking to run an old solo/duo alert or raid...I'm only looking to complete the Omni journal for the box. If I were interested in running something old (like for a feat) of course I'd go custom menu....and with a full group.

    Still not sure why my NOT wanting to run certain runs still impacts you or anyone else. There are SOOOOO many people queuing Omni (according to the numbers 'most' do this...right?), me passing on a run, just opens it up for the next guy who wants in. IF a bunch of people are saying they are being impacted by me or anyone else opting out of a ToTD run or whatever....well, maybe less people are queuing in omni than advertised.

    As I said before, they will likely increase the penalty when they see that 1 min isn't enough of a deterrent to stop cherry picking. That will just encourage grouping up for Omni, which defeats the purpose of the Omni....I know that's what I'll do and I see people doing it in LFG already almost every day. I already do it for duos and alerts most days...it's only 4 more people for raids.
    • Like x 1
  3. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Again....Please point out where I said I have an issue with the 1 min penalty. Please...don't bother responding without the quote, cause obviously I forgot that I said it....or gee...maybe I didn't. If you'd like I can scroll up and get all the times I said I got why they are doing it and that I'll sit for it while I still cancel out.

    My only issue with it is the fact that re-queuing is a pita....but it's the same requeue as if there is no penalty, so no change there do to the 1 min.
  4. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    U continue to try an rebut what im explaining but your missing 2 things
    1) you keep sayin “people didnt use on duty that way”.
    Well DUH, why would we? And i never once we did, i said we CAN and we could all along. Theres a good reason we didnt and its the same exact reason we decline omnibus Q’s lol. If Ppl are declining Q’s….. so we are STILL picking an choosing. Thats the point. Omnibus didnt actually get us anything. It was wasted time an effort by the devs CLEARLY.
    2) i never ever said omnibus is the reason for no content. Its 100% part of the reason tho.

    Proxy, think about it……
    What does omnibus do? Really, It Q’s all the raids for example. we have the option to decline (w/virtually no penalty)
    Did we need a new screen and need to hide the more functional and useful on duty screen behind it? Of course not……

    All they needed to do, was create a check box like all the others on the on duty menu at the top of each category.
    Its that simple. 1 little tiny checkbox (and call the stupid check box “omnibus”). We could have the mission thats not worth doing and everything.

    Time and $ and dev effort to create a little check box OR a whole new screen….. come on proxy. At least see what im sayin.
    We could have got a checkbox called omnibus and maybe allies could have been released working but no, we get this dumb screen with his dumb omnibus system.
    Maybe we couoda got more cosmetics, nope, we got omnibus
    What else could we have got instead? Who knows, we got omnibus smh.

    On duty we picked an chose what to Q for
    Omnibus we just decline (which is picking and choosing what to Q for)

    Omnibus got us NOTHING, surely you can see this?
  5. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    @proxy
    That aside
    100% yes

    Since we are stuck with an extra screen to navigate through AND omnibus (that we use like on duty since we simply decline to pick an choose)
    We need rewards to be worth it AND/or (but i say AND lol) deserter penalty for declining or leaving needs to be to the full extent of the law IMO
    People who choose to use it should be all but forced to take whatever pops like it or not, even if ur stuck for hours IMO. Thats part of the deal.
    Eat a 1 hour deserter or suffer the un u dont want. make the rewards worth it and enter at your own risk i say lol
  6. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    1) i highly doubt it. I suspect that using the new screen to Q relevant stuff, event, etc is being counted which would skew the data heavily.
    2) i seriously doubt its a small % if you factor out all the new players that simply dont know better. Then its close to 100% declining im quite sure.
    3) and thank God almighty for that, well done being smart enough to know that On duty can do everything omnibus trys to do and more.
    4) yes plz. If u want us to subject ourselves to omnibus it needs to be well worth it. Something to consider. In 90 min to 120 min we can farm
    Over 200 source easily with no issues, no explaining, no headache etc.
    The wrong omnibus Q can last longer than that and cause headaches, seizures, coronarys etc….. just to put the time vs reward into perspective for ya ;)
    Also to ur 4h thing, yes, punish to the full extent. You have to make the deserter punishment harsh nough that when throne elite pops, its worth the 3 hr fail instead of just declining lmao

    Best of luck to ya, great job on everything else this episode tho!!!
  7. Proxystar #Perception

    Don't take it so personally, I'm just having an open conversation, it may be you I quote but it doesn't necessarily mean everything I say is in direct response to something you've said ;), your post is simply worth quoting because it provides a segue in to further conversation or a wider response in general.

    With that out of the way, people should be careful what they wish for, you're exactly right, 1 minute may not be enough but the fact you're even saying you're prepared to take it with such relative probably indicates it could/should be higher.

    You yourself admit also that you're running omnibus for the journal rewards, which is interesting because it shows the incentive is working and at threat of beating a dead horse at this point, anyone upset (and that's not necessarily you) about the one minute deserter is because they had found a way, in their mind the "game the system" for those rewards only to have the door slightly closed when the developers decided that wasn't a game they wanted us to play.

    For what it's worth also, if people group up to run the omnibus then that's probably not a negative, because ultimately the developers are getting what they want "content being run" regardless.

    The level that it gets run is easily tweaked also, by increasing the incentive through increasing omnibus rewards.
    • Like x 1
  8. Doctor Nova Devoted Player

    considerations... grouped, stream supported, temp bans approaching war timing..... F..... "gameplay" "content creator" vs longevity of a pvp game mode among regions with many names. -.-
    I'm on a peak 600 player server'ish. gg. so many systems to grind. gg

    I've watched many videos showing Live War gameplay.... sup.
  9. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Try using 'people' or 'in general' vs 'you' then. When someone responds to my messages (repeatedly) and uses 'you' or (as you did in this post) doesn't specifically point out they are making a general statement...yeah I kind of assume you are talking TO me.

    As I said in the first line..."I'm not exactly sure who you are replying to"... I guess It's not me although it's in a reply TO me....thanks for.... clarifying?

    My questions on this subject still remain though. If the only way Omni works is to HAVE to incentivize it further or HAVE to implement a harsh penalty for variance in the way it's used....is the system that good in the first place? And if those changes make building a group to run random content the best option...how does that help the people it was designed to help? Sure it's a win on paper "Man....look at all those Omni queues"...but that's kind of like saying you can show how much people like the new hall (not saying they don't BTW) by looking at the numbers of how many people funnel through it each day. Just ignore the fact that almost every OW and mission teleporter now directs you there and all the daily work has been funneled there making it mandatory to visit the HOL. Again, not bagging on the hall...just saying as it's generally not a choice to go there...you have to..., the numbers could be misleading, but I'd guess they are looked at as a major 'win' for the new Hall.
  10. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    I would specifically ask is “content being ran” really the goal of omnibus tho?
    Content being ran was already happening. Content being ran for newer players seemed to be an issue.
    Maybe im way off base on this but i thought the whole point of this trainwreck was for ALL content to be getting ran and ran by everyone not just that SOME is being ran.
  11. Proxystar #Perception

    Point taken will alter the "you" terminology where I remember. :)
    • Like x 1
  12. Proxystar #Perception

    Anyone who was playing this game prior to this update knows full well massive swathes of the game were all but abandoned, to suggest that this wasn't the case is extremely disingenuous.

    This part of the reason the omnibus is put at the forefront and the custom menu is put in the background.

    When a person cherry picks content (or for that matter custom queues content) they're not helping players as widely as they might through the omnibus.

    If you're queuing and only ever want to run 2 out of 50 alerts, how is that really helping anyone else, especially if we're wanting population growth?

    The omnibus is there to promote "all and any" content and there's a weekly incentive to do so and a time penalty to disincentivize cherry picking, pretty simple really.
    • Like x 3
  13. Jafin 10000 Post Club

    • Like x 1
  14. Jaden Law Well-Known Player

    1 min penalty is not enough. Maybe 10 min will make people do everything right or at least not use omnibus, annoying everybody else.
  15. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    You keep saying “cherry picking” as if thats not still happening. When we decline, we are doing exactly as we did before. The onoy ones NOT cherry picking are the newer ppl who didnt know any better.
    Then their experience is prob even worse than before because now they think content is too hard.
    And you keep speaking of omnibus as if it in itself somehow fixed something.
    Be honest, is omnibus responsible for more content being ran or is it the clamp + no loot locks?
    Obviously its the removal of loot locks so back to square one, omnibus solved nothing. Its a feature we already had except the devs has to make it a new screen an new button and put tool tips that flat out lie to trick people into using it. They also have to instill punishment for not doing it “rite”.
    Such a great system………
    Clamp great
    Loot lock removal great
    Omnibus should have been a check box instead of the wasted time effort and lies and trickery
  16. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Multiple scenarios to think about here because a punishment like this would probably do way more harm than good.

    Scenario 1: I que omnibus today. It gives me inner sanctum. I've already run my StU IRe but i put on my big boy pants and do it again. 48mims later, I'm out. I que omnibus again. I get inner yet again. You think it's fair that I get a 10min timeout because i don't want to run it a 3rd time? I have 3 other toons that run it also. Would you? Cuz there's a chance it could happen to you. Omnibus doesn't know you've run it multiple times already.

    Scenario 2: You que up omnibus alerts. Jld pops because that's really all that pops because pet runs. You do it once, twice, you still willing to do it a 3rd or more times a day? No, no one would want to really so now you take a 10min punishment for trying to enjoy playing a game?

    Scenario 3: No one uses it anymore because it's not worth having a 10min timeout. We just ignore it entirely. Build groups/ use old menu and only que the shortest raids like fos3 and dd. Or just stick to solos and bounties.

    All my points come back to 1 thing, while omnibus has its upsides, it has downsides already. Doing anything to make things harsher will end up with it being treated like the plague. Again, I only do it once a week per toon so I generally take what I get unless I know it's one of the worst choices. Length of it not really my concern but knowing multiple group mechanics are involved, pass. Unless I've got at least 4 friends with me which is what we try to do. Always have at least a group of 5 so we can just do it ourselves. I feel bad for the randoms that are usually outside telling us to wipe but it is what it is. Takes us a little longer since the clamp but we will get it short handed eventually so never wiping
  17. Qwantum Abyss Loyal Player

    Scenario 1
    Yes because your not loot locked for source and thats the risk by design
    Scenario 2
    Yes because your not loot locked for source and thats the risk by design
    Scenario 3
    Yes because thats already happening and will continue to happen till they make rewards worth it

    Specifically to scenario 3, understand that most people do not have hours an hours per toon so while some will Q for omni for fun on occasion most wont. Most doing it are either new ppl who read tool tips on loading screens saying “omnibus is the fastest way to earn source” and simply dont know thats a complete lie an couldnt be further from the truth or vets tryin to clear a journal.
    So if the vast majority need the source and have limited time, look at it like this
    90-120 min with ease and no headache or failure u can spam FOS3 or run all bounties an get 200+ source
    A failed omni Q can last even longer and net 0………

    Think about that…….
  18. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Ok, good on you lol. I'd take the 10mins and log out or switch toons. But another thing everyone is missing... let's call it scenario 4:

    I que omnibus on my tank but que as dps only. It pops something either god awful or repeats the raid I just ran. I deny it. Omni should just grab the next toon instantly and their que pops. If it let me reque instantly, the next 7 players may benefit from that. Especially if they're needing a tank. So 1st group is barely affected and 2nd group gets a massive win.

    As is right now, you get "punished" for instantly saying no but not punished for letting the 1min timer expire right? So now everyone in que has to wait for the players timer that doesn't want to run vs that player would have just picked pass and requed a second later and if omni is working correctly, the only annoyance is that everyone has to press a button again to accept the same que.

    Personally, I'm fine with whatever. I don't hate it all I just don't really like it so I'm not using it often enough to care. I still wish elites had been left out of the clamp since they aren't being qued at all anymore and running old elites via blind que was always fun. Now, it's like they don't exist unless you build a group and if they don't have a rare drop, no one wants to run them clamped. But in the end, I've got my end game to keep me busy-ish.
    • Like x 1
  19. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    TMK the idea of the omnibus was to help those not using it that queued for unpopular or low level raids/alerts/duos. So that a new player could conceivably play all content that they wanted to play. All these raids and such that people are rejecting because they take too long are the only conceivable reason I could see for the system to be in place anyway. If you think they struggle with you in the instance, they certainly are going to do much worse if everyone can just skip it at will right? If every veteran player queued for what popped up...maybe instead of having one..there are two or three vets in a run and it goes smoother?

    I mean, coming back I had to run the BOP solo three times to beat it because I didn't quite understand where the attack was coming from. I can imagine that I would need some time in some of the raids I missed to understand them. Now, granted, if someone is there telling me what to do in some respect it wouldn't take me more than the second time to get it and some are more hard headed than that.
  20. Plowed In Dedicated Player

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    • Like x 1