So....we are deserters now?

Discussion in 'Gotham City (General Gameplay)' started by Reinheld, Oct 12, 2021.

  1. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    If you had a magic wand and could make it so that everyone in the group would listen to what a vet (who knows) suggests doing....Omni would not be an issue. However, I doubt you have that magic wand...if DBG doesn't probably no one does. If you are saying that it would be smoother because 2 or 3 vets could 'carry' a non listening group through an otherwise failed run...yeah well... we had that before the clamp. According to rumors, people did not like it so why would you be suggesting it's return?
    • Like x 1
  2. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    It's not about carrying the instance or not carrying the instance. That is NOT what was happening. Carrying an instance allows for the other players to still participate in said instance. What was happening was 3 players were able to completely finish the raid by themselves, relegating the other players as not even playing the instance, often getting trapped in the first room or dying over and over as the vets ignored them completely. This was never about people carrying people. It was about vets not caring about new users.
    • Like x 1
  3. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Hate to be the bearer of bad news but most vets can finish raids with 3 or 4 players easily. Have had to do it several times already. Heck, we're soloing alerts. Haven't tried to solo a raid yet but pretty sure I could and I'm just well above average vs some pretty wild players.

    I'll put out what scenario I've seen the most of:
    Vets asks if everyone knows what to do. No response. Wipe. Vet types in some instructions, which as we all know takes forever with a controller. While that's happening, someone's already started the fight so now vet is outside. Group wipes. 3rd attempt fires right back up and almost everyone wipes. 2 or 3 vets still standing... that's how it finishes. Maybe someone leaves, usually at least 1. They wanted to be in the fight. Anyone that plays this game should know the desired result is finishing. I've been left to solo a raid and succeeded and then there are times I won't but I've still got to try. Doesn't matter how many times someone types "wipe", if the boss is near dead then you go till you or they are.

    Some vets absolutely ruined new players experiences. But are the new players happier failing them repeatedly? Beats me but every single comment or opinion someone has about this has a flipside. We all only discuss the bad, not the good. Again, I think most of it is good. But I get the ones not liking the bad aspects about this. Personally, not getting anymore tells for a carry is welcomed. But having to say no to friends that want help in something I have no desire to sit thru doesn't feel great. But if I know I don't have 45 mins (if all goes well and they wouldn't be asking me to join if it was) to try and help, it is what it is. Flipsides.
  4. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    In the end, the people are either going to quit or learn. DCUO doesn't do a great job at teaching it..and honestly there are so many different mechanics that its hard for them to do an adequate job of it. They wanted all content to be viable to stop from newer players thinking the game was empty (and it never was empty, people just didn't like certain instances) and now there are a substantial amount of new players. I just empathize with the scenario as I had to skip a substantial amount of content that I'm now trying to go back and do. They made it even easier to skip maybe it won't hurt as bad now with clamping, but still, a new player should be able to go in and play any instance they want to go play. Best way for that is with a couple vets. Thats what this incentivizes. Maybe not enough, but its what its purpose was.
  5. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    If you are still able to finish a raid with 3 or 4 players easily...leaving the rest not contributing whatsoever then the clamp was insufficient. Period. To go, wipe, and then someone else finishes the raid after people have contributed is completely different than being left in the first room to die over and over again. To me, this is not about whether its a negative experience. Its about how negative it can get. Or how pointless it can get. New players failing tells them they need to learn. New players being carried means they never learn. I get the negatives to it... but many of the vets who complain are the very ones who contributed to it being a necessity.

    The old way, new players weren't even engaging with the game until endgame, and then they would get kicked out of raids or fail to complete those raids. All this did was make it so that learning curve starts earlier. It was already happening before to those patient enough with being useless to everything until endgame. It's not really a change.
    • Like x 2
  6. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    All of this is to say that if the purpose of omnibus is what it has been said to be. To create an incentive for people to que in content that isn't the most popular or is lower level... then a deserter penalty for not going into an instance is justified. I'd prefer it not ask you.
  7. OnlyNomad The One Above All

    I do agree that the purpose of Omnibus was probably to incentivize veterans to run older content and provide a new life to that old, dying content. I also think they overestimated the will of veterans to sit in content they've already ran a lot and help new players. Props to those who do it because it's much needed but I've ran Omnibus where most of the group are veterans and they still run ahead, skip adds and ignore everything and everyone to get it done as quick as possible. It's human nature to choose the path of least resistance, even though the stat clamp does a good job at preventing steam rolling, people will still do it.
  8. Reinheld Devil's Advocate

    Not sure if you have been running Omni or 'event' runs much, but that's still happening on runs where it can. I hate to tell you, but you can't force someone to 'care' about someone elses gameplay experience. Have you not been in any 'skip adds' Inner runs or rushes through the FAM tunnel? If not, good on you. Happens less in the reg or elite...but if you queue into Event versions (you know...the clamped one), it's pretty much every run. The big difference there is that the vet who might have been able to 'carry' a run will more than likely get frustrated and leave the run instead.

    Carries and clamp aside, the point still remains that most people do not listen to instructions (even with big letters on the screen or a giant skull above a bosses head), so many vets won't continue to bother typing them. The groups will either need to already know what to do in most cases or those vets will need to pick up the slack for the dead weight. On mechanic heavy runs I do actually end up staying in, I'll normally ask people to go to group chat....if no one goes, I'll type 1 time. 2-3 wipes and generally you know if people are trying to listen or not.
    • Like x 1
  9. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    IF this is happening now and the CR cap is lifted from 10 to 15 cr levels above the content (already announced)...this problem will get worse. Thats the frustrating part of all of it. Its enough of a clamp to help me. I'm mostly functional in content and you likely aren't going to be able to just leave me in another room... but I know all too well how that can be. It sucks worse than pretty much anything else barring disconnects or glitching through the floor (which happens to me all the time on PC, its aggravating)
  10. OnlyNomad The One Above All

    Right but if the content wasn't popular before, I doubt Omnibus is making it popular now. People are choosing the penalty over running certain instances for a reason.
  11. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    And assuming that they have their chat window open/know how to use it at all, maybe the next time they'll go in knowing they are missing something. Even if you fail, you may be making the game better by attempting it a few times.
  12. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    Which is something that needs to be fixed imo, one way or another. They had talked about adjusting rewards based on average completion time. That could be an option that works for many.
  13. OnlyNomad The One Above All

    Yes, it will get worse. The issue is that Omnibus only tackled the problem of filling up spots for content that was not being played but it never addressed the problem of bad content. Even if they do put a 10-15 minutes penalty for deserting an instance, people will still choose that over running some of the awful content.
  14. OnlyNomad The One Above All

    Some of the older stuff is just such a drag though, the rewards would have to be really good for some of us to go back in there. They've made great content but some of it is just really bad and that's okay but they gotta take into consideration that some of the instances are just not worth it.
  15. OnlyNomad The One Above All

    From personal experience, whenever I queue randomly, I very rarely encounter people who use chat or their mic. Usually when poop hits the fan, people just leave. People also have a hard time putting their ego aside and taking instructions of pointers from others.
    • Like x 1
  16. Lycan Nightshade Committed Player

    i found a way around the whole deserter thing.... i dont que omnibus
    • Like x 1
  17. TritonD3 Well-Known Player

    I will take that deserter penalty gladly if it means I don’t have to run DWF or Unholy Matrimony with a group of CR skippers or at level players.
    • Like x 1
  18. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    I'm not sure I'd say the clamp was insufficient. The clamp can take us down to be lower than the adds. We would still be able to 3 or 4 man it, it would just take longer. If we know the mechanics then all we need to do is perform them correctly. Cr doesn't make the player, their skill level and knowledge does. If you've got a tank/troll/heal/dps still standing, you can still beat anything. We can make battle builds and solo end game content. Stricter clamp just throws balance out the window because then every attack is a probable 1 shot.

    Let's pretend every single player in the group is clamped even more than now. So we're all the same as a player that's getting boosted to be in it. So weak as can be. We still have sp, artis, augs, and what not over those players. So now we pretend that those are also clamped because that would make vets as level as can be. They can't clamp enough to where those same 4 players would still get thru it without crushing the less knowledgeable players. So we're left with where we already are. The buffed players need to play exceptionally well and the clamped players just need to follow mechanics. Until we start adding cr skippers with no sp/ artis into it. They're basically the same as buffed up players but in a much worse spot because they've been clamped down. They don't have any artis or high sp to offset the clamp so they're looking like a vet because of the same cr but they're probably going to be sitting outside too.

    I think the clamp is more than enough personally tho. New StU elite solo, penguin takes literal 8secs, 6 if I tac swap. Adds have been near a 1 shot for me for the last few years. If i run that clamped, everything slows way down. So that shows me that the old clamped content is already clamped more than enough because old stuff is harder than new stuff.

    In the end, it is what it is. Once new content hits, the majority will have enough to do and not have time to go back to the old stuff. Which is fine since that's how it's always been. We live in a 2 dlc cycle with a bit of the 3rd sprinkled in on occasion.
  19. Steamboat2302 Well-Known Player

    If you can literally have 4-5 people leave, not invite people in, and still complete it...there is a problem.
    • Like x 2
  20. xxHELLSTROKExx Loyal Player

    Agreed but that's literally any content that doesn't involve multi person mechanics. Players are still soloing bounties clamped. Others are asking for people to que and leave. We have the tools at our disposal to be massively OP but if content gets balanced around these tools, anyone without them will be absolutely crushed. So the choices are crush anyone not op or take away everything that can make someone op. A ftp game can't get rid of how it makes money. And it's far too late to take away paid for artifacts. So only thing left to do is make multiple tiers of difficulty. Probably like 8 to 10 of them?