Rage AM

Oh I agree. My statements were also directed at the rage players who cried when Cel got their update. I understand that a lot of powers need updated, but make a thread, don't hi-jack another powers' thread. Otherwise, just realize that there is a specific order the Devs have taken up to this point, following the logical path of release order for the powers.

After rage is finished, then its up in the air who is next, but I would personally put Earth and Fire at the forefront with Sorcery and Mental following. Some powers such as Electricity and Ice need minor tweaks as well, mostly to their power-back mechanics, but they can should come after others that are suffering much more.

Oh and btw, I said that exact same thing in your last sentence in a different rage thread. If those words were not good enough for you then, then why would they be good enough for you now? Just look at your history and you'll see that I did. I've tried to be nice and respectful to you, you just have to accept the respect and generosity.

yeah, pay some attention cause the one you complained was trolling was errorcode not me, and we don't even share the same profile pic. i'm not on every rage thread, i'm the guy who's pissed off that your response to him was to as i said "make up bs" rage was not "as bad as earth but with no range options" it was still very functional. i don't care that you don't like that someone was trolling. i don't like that your response was to blatantly lie about how rage was beforehand to make it seem worse then it was something that people needlessly did for the past three months simply because it wasn't the overly op power it used to be.

Oh this is a great idea. I love the idea of a melee based power-set in this game, I just do not believe the devs have implemented it correctly. Give DPS full use of Relentless Anger in PVE, as well as some way of buffing their health. Maybe base it off of precision or something, but at a lower percentage than the tank's Dom conversion. Maybe give health based off 1/8 precision per power per add, but only with melee powers and possibly a shorter range for an add to count.

At 3500 precision this is less than 500. The max adds that will be close to you should be around 8-12(though rarely this will be more). With combos includes, and some powers not counting as melee I would say keeping about 5 power-health buffs up per rotation would be about the norm. Yes, this can result in health upwards of 30k, but as a dps with dps defense, this isn't going to mean a WHOLE lot of extra survivability... just enough to be able to melee.

They could even possibly shorter the time window, make it only powers that are activated while rage mode is active(though the buff will remain through its own duration as the tank one). There are so many ways to go about this but I say +1 to this. If anyone with access to test forums can, please post something about this mechanic as an option for melee dpsing. This could, for once, give melee dps's a chance in new content.

Also, I disagree. Yes, rage was not QUITE as bad as earth, but earth could be at the same level as rage using WM. Rage kept up by mixing AM and WM, which should not be required for any AM. I do agree, that this is the only way earth could compete as well, and its AM prohibited WM crits, so AM/WM for earth was less than rage, but both using pure AM were relatively even.

I REALLY think this idea would work while being fair to other powersets. From what ive read on the testers' thread, rage's melee am is outperforming all other ams (except quantum) so I want to reiterate the fact there there still has to be a high risk factor to meleeing in order to keep it fair. But this idea will improve our chances of survival while meleeing as opposed to having zero possibilities as the game stands right now. The bigger beauty of itis that it should very very easily implemented with little work required. This would also solve our ranged options problem as we are able to now successfully melee, therefore, range dpsing is only for extreme cases such as sm and boss fights such as Ares in Throne Elite.

Okay, I apologize for any wrong I've committed against you or any disrespectful statement that I said or any "lie" committed. This is all I have left to say on the subject.

on paper, yes, in practice not quite, crystal and brick are very spotty, often wasting power and getting themselves killed long before achieving full usefulness due to lackluster ai, this is why it is on the bottom, rage when used correctly was still 5th in overall dps effectiveness thanks to the combination of damage and the survivability granted by it's healing abilities. it didn't need an update the most, just needed a slight update when it was due, which is gonna be the next update, i'm just tired of people acting like it needed it the most when other powers, (earth, fire, and mental come to mind) need some attention desperately.

You are talking about revamps from a damage out perspective, i was talking about revamps from a power functionality perspective in those threads. I wasnt lying as you say, it is my opinion that rage needed a major update because of the devs intent to make it a melee -based powerset when they released it but then the melee side was nerfed along with everything melee in the game so an entire powersets lost what the powerset itself was intended for. With a huge lack in ranged options, i felt rage was at a disadvantage with dpsing. I'll reiterate that these opinions do not come from a damage out perspective. Damage-wise rage was still able to compete fairly well but the feel of the rage powerset was hugely diminished with all of the melee nerfs.

I am not disagreeing with you except on one fact. If rage were to use its PURE AM correctly, without mixing WM in between, no it would not be 5th dps. I would place it somewhere around the level of Cel pre-45 or sorcery. Using WM in between combos allowed rage to be somewhat competent, reaching that 5th dps slot. My point of view on how AMs should work, and the direction that most AMs are going as of now is that WM, and most weapon attacks in general are not required.

That said, I completely agree that Earth needs an update, and that Rage was not as much in NEED of an update for damage out. It did though need a major revamp to address its ancient "AM" as well as to fix the loss of melee capabilities. Earth should most definitely be first in line after Rage has its updates though, with fire right behind it.

We'll get used to it.

When HL got nerfed at GU 36 they whined and complained in EVERY thread about improvements to other powers until they got...3 AM's and 5 tweaks over the course of 5 updates.

Rage already has it easier than Earth...there is absolutely no excuse for Rage to have their own GU for tweaking before Earth...which shared an update with Electric and HL.

I plan to put my very productive 2 cents in to EVERY 'Day Dreaming About How OP My Power Should Be' thread until there is justice.

I love Earth powers. I am sick of the Earth community being punished for demonstrating maturity and patience.

i feel you on they whole earth am thing but like some ppl have said there's an order to these things and they are getting every powers am out there then revamping ams. Granted it should not be in the order the powers came out it should be who needs it more with fire and earth occupying the first and second slots sorc and mental coming in next then little tweaks to electric. Somewhere hopefully nerfing quantum damage a bit to bring it in line with other powers cuz let's be real quantum risks nt a dam when it comes to standing there throwin out 2 moves getting almost all the power back from those moves dong hella damage while high risk powers are getting interrupted every other power they throw out. I'm not bashing quantum by far but the numbers its throwing out in damage is ridiculous compared to other powers like earth electric and mental with no risk toward their full rotation. This dos not include going into an alert with 2 dps no tank. The devs said once that powers like rage cel and HL were intended to throw out the hurt more due to the risk of interruption.

I just don't get it. Rage IS getting their update, right now, no matter what you say. Its done and over with. Go make your own thread about what earth needs, because YES, it does need a lot of love. What good are you doing posting on another powers' thread? All the good you will do is get it locked up, and give the devs a bad image of earth users for derailing threads.

Do you really think it will do you any good posting on another powers' thread? If a dev opens this thread, they will be looking for feedback on rage and what changes to rage may improve it. They are going to scroll right past your "you should get what earth got" post. Now if, as everyone expects, earth will be one of the next powers to get an update, then you'll be much better off making a CONSTRUCTIVE thread about proposed changes to Earth's AM that could help it in the future. This is something the Devs will most likely stop by and take the time to read so they can get some ideas for future changes to Earth.

I can promise that no Dev is going to be checking out the Rage AM thread to see what changes need to be made to Earth in the future.

I completely agree. If you know anyone that is on PC test, try to PM them with some information about it and see about getting it in the testing feedback thread. I also believe that they need to give rage some more Ranged options as well, maybe sacrificing some of the lesser used, useless melee powers that nobody bothers with.

I do love this idea though, as rage was the first, and only, power that was proposed as a melee power. This has never been completely possible, except in content where you are already somewhat OP. In other games when you have melee dps and ranged dps there is usually a noticeable difference in their armor(cloth vs light armor vs heavy armor), which is obviously not an option in this game without a large revamp in the gear system.

That said, why not take from something the power already has? For rage, they gave a good start with rage mode, but its not quite enough in content that can easily 1-shot you. Counter this by delving into another tank mechanic, which obvious changes to make it not quite as powerful, but enough to get by with. We would also need certain limits so it could not be taken advantage of while ranging (such as only activates via melee powers, or at very close range) but this idea is perfect.

Hell, in the future this idea could be applied to other powers if they wanted them melee(serums?). I could imagine serums giving you some sort of defense buff, or mere damage ignoring based on certain combinations of serums for better melee survivability. We'll just have to wait and see how serums tank handles its damage mitigation before we make expectations for the dps side, as it will most certainly be a melee dps.

This would actually be a great idea to split dps classes up via their support role? Tank power-sets having more melee options by taking from abilities from their tank role(def/shields for ice, healing/health for fire, healing/health for rage, and absorption/defense for earth with an aftershock AM). Healer dps powers could be the ranged blasters with the least damage resistance/cc resistance, and troll dps powers could be somewhere in the middle, being mid-ranged with slight increases in mitigation(not tank power level), and a lot more CC resistance.

Its probably much too late for a lot of these changes, but future powers, and any AM updates (earth, fire) the devs could definitely take note from this idea to give these powers a more diverse way to dps, and change the playing field a lot. This could make fights much more dynamic than tank holding aggro, dpses being at ranged spamming away, heals healing, and trolls trolling.

1. Give more ranged options for rage has a few useless powers and melee isn't really viable. (channel hate, lacerate, rage blast)
2. reduce GE cooldown to match bloodlust
3. Buff the damage
4. Increase the speed of dreadful blast to where it was when Rage first came out.
5. Fix Berserk allowing its duration to be longer. I wish infuriate was a buff just for the player using it but I can't be selfish.
6. Instead of Relentless anger healing back damage, how about you receive no damage for 8 sec (Pve only)
7. Allowing Galling eruption to spawn under targeted enemies this would help in the ranged area pleaseeeeeeeeee
8. Fix redirected rage that shield sucks and i'm mad I want to use it so badly.

That power doesnt need to be fixed. It is working as intended.
The problem isnt that the shield sucks, the problem is that Rage does not benefit from regular shields because of how Rage works. Just like Fire.

Ok scratch that on then I didn't know.

Its just simple math. Shields work for ice because their increased defense vs the defense that rage/fire have. Defense is calculated into the damage a shield is hit by before hand. Example(using random numbers, lower than current stats to not include armor penetration):

Ice: 5,000 Defense = 69.4% damage reduction
Rage 2500 Defense = 34.7% damage reduction

If both cast a shield of equal mitigation the ice shield would outlast the rage shield.

Shield = 3000 damage reduction(3000 dom)
Damage out by enemy = 10,000

Ice: 10,000 - 69.4% = 3060 - 3000 = 60 damage taken by Ice tank.
Rage: 10,000 - 34.7% = 6530 - 3000 = 3530 damage taken by Rage tank.

You can see the obvious problem presented by a rage tank vs an ice tank using a shield with equal mitigation abilities. As ice gets a 90% buff to defense on use of any superpower, they will always have almost double the defense of a rage tank even if the two tanks have identical base stats. In all honesty, the shield should have never been placed in rage the way it is. They should have possibly given the shield either extra mitigation, like Reflect(has an extra 10,000 mitigation on top of dominance), or made the shield buff defense while it is active.

Honestly, rage doesn't need a whole lot of this. The relentless anger one could definitely work as an alternate method, but I also believe a health buffing option for DPS in PVE as Biester suggested could really help rage. I wouldn't care if they added any ranged moves whatsoever, as long as they made melee a viable option with some kind of change. The idea of the power being a melee power is excellent, and something we will see again I am sure (Serums). Obviously they need to get this figured out before Serums goes live, so why not take a little more from the tanking end.


Rage tanks buff health based on dom, so why not rage dps buff health based off prec or another stat. Obviously limit this much more than a tank, and make it only work while using melee powers(or at melee range like berserk range). This is something that could really help give melee power-sets a real chance at melee damage. If they revamp earth again for aftershock, why not give earth some damage absorption with the aftershocks so they can melee some as well? When serums comes out, which will most definitely be melee, why not let them leach on whatever mechanic they go with for its tanking power. More than just a shield, as obviously defense/health can make a huge difference on how they work.

The biggest issue with rage melee is that rage mode can't heal a 1-shot. If we got some sort of health buff, or as you stated, pure damage nullification in DPS role rage mode, then we take full damage if we crash, then we could definitely make melee work for once. Personally I like the health buff, but only because it isn't reinventing the way a power works, but taking an already established trait that the power-set has.

Never thought it was hard just never looked it into it really.