Up-Votes Needed Known artifact swap bugs that need to be fixed/adjusted

Correct, but we aren't all going to view things as exploits in the same way. Despite any agreement here, the valid point has been made that not all gear acts the same, even within its own category trees, should it, possible, depends on how the individual views it.

As has been highlighted many times, there are things that persist despite their removal, Even if you drop a supply drop for example its effects persist post its removal, the same applies for the P-Stone, are we going to go as far as making the supply drop itself cease upon removal?

How far do we actually take this Appo is the point, at some point you are going to have to relax and accept that this is how some of these things work and probably will just always work this way.

MERCY isn't specifically a hill I wish to die on, I'm questioning the merits of what's actually being achieved.

Firstly I guess, it's bad for the consumer that there's no advertised cool down, so theoretically a player could think, pulling the pets together would achieve the trigger, even without the swap, or waiting the cool down, so there's that firstly.

And secondly, again if the math is correct, the net result of making the change achieves, zero, so what's the point of making the change? So yes, I question the merits of that a little.

As for artifact swapping as a whole, I don't think there's anything to address outside of actual bugs, the act of swapping though isn't something that ever needs to be addressed.

Right now do all of that and TRY to proc your henchmen/next pet at the exact moment in that 2 second window without any visual or audio cue. If you can do it you deserve the damage.

But guess what...swap in swap out wooooow i dont have to worry about that stupidly hard 2 second window that has no que other than me counting to 10 in my head because iv exploited a bug and given myself and extra 10 seconds to use at will.

In that I can agree, I play on a PC though, so I'll just start making timed audio cues in the background

Either way, was a good chat, In as much as we've conversed in here we've reached general consensus on what we could

Oh, if I were the devs I'd also update the tool tip on the MERCY, it should make that cool down known at 10s, then people know full well they're abusing a bug in the first place, there's no ignorance after that either.

Didn't your first or second post in this thread agree with the OP about DKS and not having a blanket rule in game? If they are addressing DKS to fix the swap reset, wouldn't it make sense to establish a "blanket rule" about swap reset and fix other artifacts...like mercy.....that have the same issue? Fixing mercy's cool down would fall in line with that comment wouldn't it? Even if you think changing mercy's swap reset does nothing?

It also doesn't help that Mepps has posted about effects of arts staying after unequipping is an unintended effect? Would pstone and eog not fall into that category?

I think you're over simplifying my position, which is a little more nuanced.

My issue with DKS is that nothing else at all is limiting the exploit of the cool down, other than a persons ability to swap.

The Mercy is limited by the pet cool downs, so irrespective of the swap it's triggered the once or at most only upon those other cool downs.

Appo has a problem with the potential numbers that can be put out when stacking the MERCY proc with other things, and the ease at which that damage potential can be achieved, but you'll note during the course of our conversation we established it could technically be achieved regardless, something Appo appears to have agreed with, but said a player actually managing to pull that off probably deserves the reward.

So we've agreed you can change the MERCY artifact at the conclusion of our conversation, but appear to have also agreed that irrespective of that change, the potential is still there for a devoted enough player to achieve the same end result, irrespective of the change being made.

This means that all the fix is really doing is making the player put in the true effort to get the reward rather than more easily exploiting a cool down reset to get the same result.

Hence the situation is a little bit more nuanced that just saying "Rawwwr the Mercy be broken" I mean of course, we've established you can argue it is, but the nuances surrounding it are not as clear cut as the DKS.

Compared to the DKS, which if you fix the cool down the damage people were getting from orbital support is gone and cannot be achieved going forward no matter what.

Lol how do you figure? do you understand what equipment is in DCUO?

You equip a trinket pet > summon a pet > unequip trinket pet > pet stays out for duration.

You equip an artifact > proc artifact effect > unequip artifact > artifact proc lasts for duration.

It's delusional that is not accepted because trinkets have been around forever and you just accept it as working as intended and they aren't OP enough to make a difference so it's out of sight, out of mind. If you use a trinket to transform and then take the trinket off do you lose the transformation? no lol, never. But all of a sudden when logic is applied to artifact swapping any sort of effect lasting when its unequipped is a bug and not working as intended.



You can't however swap a trinket and reset its cooldown, unlike effects like DKS. THAT is the only bug with artifacts. You can't reset the internal cooldown of any trinket unless you log out and log back in. That is applying logic to artifact swapping. All the controller artifacts or stone etc that is working as it always has and was designed to do. Fast forward multiple years now players are complaining more.

Again, I ask if it made sense to create a blanket rule when fixing DKS. Fixing the cool down is at its core...a no swap reset fix. If they are fixing it for 1 artifact, circling back to what I mentioned about fixing all the swap resets in artifacts makes sense as a blanket rule for artifacts. That would include the mercy artifact because it actually does have a reset on swap. I will freely admit its just a portion of the benefits, but it still does fall in line with a swap reset.

Pet trinkets, henchmen actually specify the summons stay with you for a short while to assist you.

Mepps literally posted about effects of artifacts being maintained after unequipping the artifact is...wait for it.....unintended. As far as I know, that is still the current information regarding swapping.

Honestly it shouldn't proc when you summon henchmen since they're not trinket pet.

Artifacts were working as intended for years until all of a sudden it became a problem and the community thought they weren't working as intended. DCUO history is filled with 100's of examples of this. The supercharge crystals in gotham central park when you smashed them gave SC, orange barrels gave SC back SINCE BETA then multiple years later all of a sudden they weren't working as intended.

Artifact swapping only became a problem because the players wanted to make it a problem, then actual bugs like DKS get grouped together with swapping. Just because Batuba and the other developers who worked on artifacts didn't envision players using artifacts how they are doesn't mean its a bug lol. That is super convenient just to call it a bug/unintended lol.

The history of the game is also filled with hundreds of examples of changes, fixes and updates. Game development isn't static in the least.

I'll agree to fixing cool down resets, but not where you make things cease when you take them off, despite the fact I'm not particularly opposed to it I'm also not particularly on board with it either

That's probably a fair point and better argument

It would be hard to argue with the henchmen and sidekick for that matter being removed from triggering the effect altogether.

The game is on a slippery slope that the devs put it on when they acknowledged art swapping was unintended but they were not going to restrict it. The difference between players exploiting this mechanic and those who are not is massive and game changing.

The game shouldn’t be balanced for glitches that players are exploiting but if they don’t balance content for art swapping then the players and game suffer.

It was always obvious things would go this way but Daybreak likes money so yeah own up to your mess devs and get this sorted out.

So you're saying eog was working as intended? If I remember well(correct me if I'm wrong) you were one of them who called it broken until devs fixed. You used to be against broken artifacts but now you support them. Why?
First artifacts didn't stack but with time we got more and more stacking each other. I don't know which one was the first but that wasn't so long ago.
You can call it bug, exploit, unintended or whatever. Devs will make more artifacts with time and this stacking issue will cause more problems.
I know most of your followers and your friends you run with are artswappers so you have to support them whatever it takes or they'll ignore you. But come on...

Yes, but they didn't stop you from swapping the artifact, did they...

lol they didn’t stop players from doing many exploits in this game…until they did.

Bad argument and weird place to even go when trying to defend art swapping. Why are you even trying to deter players asking for the devs to do something about a mechanic that is clearly creating imbalance in content?

Game and content is suffering because of art swapping and content that isn’t balanced for it. Devs need to take a good look at it because many players are taking note of their involvement in this situation and how it has been handled so far to the detriment of the game.

The difference between players using artifacts as intended and players who are art swapping is massive and game changing.

Because you're not necessarily up in here asking for bugs or exploits to be fixed, you're in the bug section of the forum just asking for something to be changed that YOU, personally, DONT LIKE.

That's not asking for a bug fix.

lol why make up things in a discussion, it doesn’t look good on you.

Art swapping is quite literally the definition of an exploit as it using equipment in an unintended manner to achieve higher end results that were not within the equipment’s original parameters.

As these results are not within the parameters of the equipment, it is causing extreme imbalance in content as the devs are not balancing the game for such a huge improvement in player damage, healing, power out etc.

So please don’t try to frame art swapping in whatever narrative suits you best, it’s an unintended mechanic that the content in game is not balanced for and it’s causing the gameplay to deteriorate for the majority of long term players as there is a huge disparity between players using artifacts as intended and players who are art swapping.

Once again, art swapping is massive and game changing and the content is not being balanced for it, stop trying to deter players from bringing it to the dev’s attention so something can be done about it.