Just because you disagree, doesn't make the other evil.

I believe your part about the letting new players feel super (paraphrasing). I also believe the stat clamp was to accomadate all these systems we have as well. I don't believe we will get to the potential output we had before, but when we get these systems to damn near max there should be a big difference to our character's output. Some will still not like it, but in my eyes they are giving us more to do.

And yes I do like horizontal progression sometimes but I have Guild Wars 2 for that.

In my experience, asking for help from high level people were. "F you noob", "I don't care", and then the not answering when asked to slow down so that I can play the game too at a low level. In the end, if you offer to help, then they lose, the next vet they see...maybe they ask for help. You're only better off not rolling that die if you don't care about the health of the game, at this point.

I mean look at the forums. There are literal people in here saying "I don't give a crap about new players".

There is a pretty large difference in the characters output with 10 CR and the artifacts, base augments, league augments and SP. If its not showing up, then maybe something needs to be tweaked and that specific feedback would apply. If it works for Guild Wars 2 and FFXIV...why wouldn't it work here? The only reason I've heard so far is that "it hasn't worked like that here".

We want a new engine, we want momentum to maybe justify a sequel. We want more devs and more content/powers/etc. The only way that happens is with a larger userbase. Growing far faster than 1% a month. Doing that involves engaging with newer players in a different way. That seems to be what they are incentivizing here. Maybe they need more incentivizing.

Side note. I have no idea how people can play two MMO's at the same time. I have a hard enough time with my football MMO and this game, much less two full fledged MMO's.

So...you are agreeing, just calling me a liar or at a minimum, not reliable. No problem, I've been accused of worse. As we don't have any hard numbers from DBG (and will never get them) discussion our personal experiences here is the only 'research' we can do. And at a point, anecdotes become trends become averages become 'facts'. I'm sure that first dentist who recommended sugar free gum was questioned too....now 9 out of 10 dentists recommend it I'm told. That last hold out sees the decrease of fillings revenue and stopped recommending it I'd guess.

BTW...I can't think of a better thread to have this discussion in.

Never called you a liar, just calling your choice of words poor and incorrect.

Here's a refresher, again. Enjoy.

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/fact

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionar...f an account or,rather than facts or research

With horizontal progression mmo's you can take a break and still be exactly where you are without new systems and no one better than you besides people who understand the patch note changes since you left.

I think DCUO is best as a side-dish MMO the complements the main MMO experience when you get sick of the main stuff for several hours.

Not saying its horrible. But during my World of Warcraft days DCUO (was/becoming) a solid back-up game.

I play DCUO and Final Fantasy 14. My sister and I tried Black Desert Online but we found it to be way too grindy for us.

I love that instead of replying to me directly after I shut you down, you turned your reply into a whole discussion instead. And you can't seem to decide if this post is supposed be about not seeing your debate partner as evil or if it's a low key attempt to continue our arguments you already lost.

As I told you previously, this was a way to address powercreep, make the balancing and stats easier to manage over time; a cost saving measure. None of this is "bad" and the Devs aren't doing a bad thing having this be their purpose -- it's a business and that's how you run the business. It's just not in the player's interests or to our benefit. Players are *not* attracted to a game because the game has stats clamping--it is therefore not a "feature" that attracts new players. Claiming that's its purpose is incorrect and misleading.

There are many things that "happened" in this game that have been rolled back after they were deeply unpopular and poorly received. Including stats clamping. and depowering (several times).

True this was happening. It was a problem in the first 6 months not years. But none of it has anything to do with stats clamping. These are separate issues like unclear/inconsistent gameplay mechanics and lacking tutorials and need solutions specific to them.

Your anecdote here is presented outside of the original context you offered it to me. If you claim you understand the new player experience and use your experience as an alt as an example of this -- like you did in our original exchange and now repeat here, you're presenting it in bad faith. By definition if you're running an alt; you're not a new player and therefore not playing the new player experience at all.

The new player experience that is ruined happens early in the game -- the bulk of new players don't make it past the tutorials. That is a widely understood fact that the Devs have shared with us many times over the years. That has nothing to do with stats clamping and I don't know why you're having a hard time accepting that fact.

Your whole premise here is "people who don't agree with you aren't evil" and then you go on to imply people who don't help new players are bad people and selfish -- and they shouldn't feel insulted by being called out on it.

Instead of lecturing other players on moral positions, take some time off the forums and reflect on the fact that not everyone who plays games plays for the same reasons. That means they don't play for the reasons you play. That means they might want an escape, or mindless time out of the world to aimlessly click or whatever. That means they pay for their own experience in the game (until this update) and it's their time. They're not obligated to teach anyone anything. As long as they're not being toxic or griefing others their job is done. If you want to play differently that's your decision. You do you boo.

You're not selfish. You have a misread and bad take of what the issues are and how to solve them. And instead of accepting that you could be wrong when someone points it out, your response is to assume they're wrong instead, and double down on your ideas.

Again this is a misread. Clamping players has nothing to do with attracting new players.

Exactly. LIke I told you in our original exchange, the problem isn't that players think the content is too easy [because someone else was OP and killed it when they were grouped] it's because the new players don't exist at all. They don't make it past the tutorial because when they check out the game, they don't see what they're looking for in the game and leave. They never get past the ship. The game is supported almost entirely by long term players who've stuck with the game for years.

Ways to attract new players include having things they're looking for; like the powersets they want, customization they want like VFX, new base styles, features and systems they expect from the genre, a graphics engine update to modernize the game and some pvp too probably. Changes that risk existing players are a bad idea.

After the shiny new DLC is out for a few weeks, and players decide how they feel, they'll either stay or leave and we'll have a better sense then. But no one is coming back to the game because their 10 years of progress was clamped and they're happy about that. The one guy you know who might say so, isn't representative of most of our players either incase that's what you're thinking.

Oh, I don't need a refresher. You had it in the previous post which wasn't that long ago.

1. (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
   "while there was much anecdotal evidence there was little hard fact"

And again, I've been called worse, so believe me....your opinion of anything I say is pretty low on my priority list. And I know what facts are... I stated some in my previous post. You can believe them or not...you can use them to weigh your own opinion or not. I'd have created proof of these facts in video form, but it's a fact I don't feel like making videos that are of no consequence except to prove something to someone in the forum. I'm perfectly fine if you don't believe me or discount mine or anyone else's experience except your own. BTW... as you will never get any 'facts' from DBG about population change due to the update, and you are unwilling to take anyone else's experience into account, enjoy your own personal 'facts' as they are all you will ever have.
FACT: I'm tired of this discussion and it's circular nature. Have a good one.