Just because you disagree, doesn't make the other evil.

Until you actually try to offer plausible solutions, you won’t come across as reasonable. I’m desperately trying to meet you halfway here.

Which is why, in the future, when the game has a more balanced userbase, it could be implemented, but to do it now would kneecap the entire idea behind it.

In EU it would seem like AQS would even be more important with the lower pop. And before the clamps I carried people quite often...it didn't hurt my back as much.

I can tell you that I've been in several Omni raid and alert runs where we are short 1-3 because people either leave, spawn in after the door is closed on a boss, die quickly, or literally just sit there...so yeah, carries are still a thing. I'd guess EU has these things too...just after a longer queue times people might not be as apt to leave.

Getting into content isn’t the part I’m worried about.

I already said I've given up on the idea. I'm agreeing with you. 'Option' is not an option at this point.

This is one hell of a subject lol We are having to find compromises to the compromises compromise and alot of us are passionate about this.

So far im having a blast running old content except that one time we almost finished a raid and 2 people - waiting outside - said wipe and for some reason the grouop just ... wiped for no reason. That was pretty annoying but other than that, going solo in omnibus content is nice. I can still carry the group as Dps, Heal or Tank. Its hard as a Troll but its not always required to be able to carry a raid.

I definitely feel that im stronger than others because of SP/Artifacts/Augments/Generator mods etc.


Many people think alike, but almost nobody goes ahead and makes a "thank you for this" thread. So we mainly see complaints on the forums of course.
After 1 week its crazy how much healthier the game seems with old content being relevant, old OP collection becoming affordable again and less players standing 24/7 afk in the watchtower.

But a lot of people on the forums are (sort of) assuming that the stat clamp fixed player retention miraculously and that by removing it or making it optional, that magical cure will disappear. We have absolutely no data (for now) that explicitly tells us if stat clamp is actually working at keeping new players (and old players). For all we know, all the old content is clamped and players are still leaving in drove (I think the idea of the stat clamp was to fix player retention, right?).

For now it's kind of pointless to make assumptions about what would be best because we haven't seen the results (yet) of the alternative (Stat Clamp). In a few months, we'll be able to tell if we see a increase in subscribtion or player retention, then we'll know if it's worth making it optional or permanent.

Then you are going to see me as unreasonable, because I believe there are no solutions here. There are four choices. Each having their own drawbacks.

1. Leave it as it is. Doesn't do anything for you.

2. Ditch stat clamping altogether. Fixes everything for you, but dooms the game to be short lived because it will not improve the new user experience.

3. Make it optional for feats with loot locks. Fixes everything for you, but dooms the game to be short lived because not enough people will use the clamped instances to generate the activity necessary to make the game appear lived in in lower levels. Thus not improving the new user experience.

4. Stat clamp, but increase the cap substantially. Creates a scenario where you might not have to use the mechanics of lower level content whatsoever (even now some instances don't need it). Which again, defeats the purpose of the change to a lesser extent and will cause a bunch of new users getting to endgame content and then washing out because they get destroyed when they have to use said mechanics in endgame.

Which is why I believe the current compromise of adding source marks to end game content is the furthest I think they can go. You can believe I am being unreasonable, but I am not being unreasonable. For one, I'm not a dev, just a player who has no control over their decisions.

They are constantly looking for feedback on what is too hard, or what is too easy and are trying to balance the game to allow people to feel powerful without ruining the purpose of the game. I think that is 100% a reasonable path forward.

Meh....you worry too much though. I'm rabid anti-clamp and even I can admit it isn't that bad (except for feat hunting). I won't do it most times outside the weekly 2, but people ARE completing runs...even the tougher ones. I think getting source back in endgame will help focus those still in Omni down to those that WANT to be there or NEED to be there. People hunting marks will have 3 more episodes to get them, so hopefully it will make Omni queued raids more successful....even in EU.

Good luck.

Was it ever a compromise though? Let's be real here (and I'm not picking sides) but it seems the pro-clamp crowd never really had to give up anything. A compromise would imply both sides had to meet halfway and I've yet to see that happen.

What about old elites?

We can't see that it increased player retention, for one thing, its not balanced yet and they haven't started advertising to attract newer players. Most of those who caused increases in engagement are older users like myself that came back. Many of them may in fact have been against the stat clamp in the first place (those for the stat clamp have been gone a long time imo, like myself, I just had my son log on last week so I thought I'd check to see what was going on by chance right before this.)

The stat clamp was to fix new player retention, but there are no new players to retain right now. DCUO has to take steps to fix that somehow, or it will have been for nothing.

And it looks like the Devs really are adjusting difficulty in the raids. Ran FOS2 yesterday with a pug group and not a SINGLE death, much less a wipe, Markedly easier than the week before.

All of this is based on the assumption that old content being dead was the main reason for player retention. How do we know it was the main reason for new players leaving?

Again this new solution works IF (and it's a damn big IF) player retention was directly related to old content activity.

Honestly, you don't need anything but logic to come to that conclusion. You get online, run a player to level 30, you que for instances. Particularly the T0 stuff. Even 2 years ago you'd wait 45-60 minutes to get into an instance and when you did.... the other players steamrolled it for you. Why would anyone stick around after that?

Its not just activity, its also what happens when you got into the instances. I left because of it, and I was a much more established player who had multiple leagues and knew about and read the forums. You think a new player is going to deal with hour long que times then not being able to actually play the game when they finally did get in?

How do you know there are no new players?