Can the subscription price be reduced?

I'm always hellbent on picking the flaws of dcuo but tbh the monthly fee is actually rather good compared to a few MMOs i play.

I agree with ThunderGunExpress. I didn't read anything in Brit's post written in bad faith. They were expressing their frustration constructively, in fact, and trying to get a point across that isn't landing.

Maybe we aren't communicating this in terms you or the dev team at large can understand but, players aren't drawn in by discounts and Brit explains they (many of us) see the value of membership in terms of game features, and not consumables or discounts; which is what I've been saying across multiple posts now. Brit is strictly correct in that players are losing game features associated with their memberships and their value is being substituted for items and discounts. Again, there's no argument that the perks included with membership exceed the cost of membership but that's not what's going to excite people to stay, play or comeback and it's not how many players see value in the game and their membership. I know most of my league mates see it this way too.

By contrast you see (at least this is what your replies and posts imply) the value of membership in terms of a strict monetary value. This appears to be a (the?) disconnect between the dev team and players and this is almost certainly why you saw Brit's post as dishonest and being in bad faith and replied with a line-by-line of items/perks being delivered for updated membership instead of acknowledging that many players feel like "we" do; as if all of the actual game features that matter to us are being whittled down and traded for labour-free freebies/consumables/items. I think we're just asking your team to commit to actual game features to excite us, retain us and add value to the game and incentivize us to sub/resub.

And to be clear; this absolutely is not being written in bad faith. I'm [we're] trying to get through to your team before it's too late. There is no maliciousness intended at all.

Im confused bc this is very accurate. Also you forgot the utility belt that I payed $10 for. There are no lies here.

Playing devils advocate, how can you possibly see his post as not in bad faith? He was detailing everything we have apparently lost with memberships without highlighting or even mentioning what actually replaces it. He even said nothing new was added as a Subscription Benefit despite DCUO already making a large post about the changes to the membership rewards which he would have clearly known about. He said we are paying the same price to receive less which is a 100% LIE a FLAT OUT LIE. Not only do we have the new fates reward vendor which will have new styles added to it but we also have the daily login rewards which will include the new Ally XP for the new allies system and other benefits clearly laid out by the development team to replace and compensate for our previous rewards. If he actually was trying to point out reasons he could have mentioned lockboxes which have been redundant for years with no changes to rewards effectively making that membership perk pointless of unlimited openings etc, but he didn't.

Also the ability to mail money was specifically taken away due to a rampant in-game cash exploit that also saw dozens of players banned and resulted in a precedent setting "player tax" but of course he made no mentions of that just saying it was a subscriber only feature removed from the game.

Mepps saw that post for what it was as would any rational thinking person looking at the bigger picture instead of jumping to be a white knight.

1) Membership has a 25% inflation discount when compared to 2010
2) The only value lost SO FAR was access to episodes, but members still had full access when other players could only get half the loot resets.
Brit says "And in exchange for all these paid benefits that the subscribers no longer RECEIVE as a part of their subscription...", which is false, by the time everyone unlocks all benefits, members will already be getting $80-100 in daily login rewards per month. The new rewards are worth in ONE month more than the value of all episodes in a year + 1 month of escrow, lairs and utility belt combined and you still get all that stuff for free if you ever stop paying (plus bonus artifact xp, which is worth a hundred dollars considering 3 hour regular play per day)
3) You may personally not like the stuff they are giving to us, but there is no membership value loss, its cheaper than ever and you are getting more free items

Exactly

I literally laid it all out in the reply you quoted. Like, I even broke it down ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean how difficult is it to understand that some people like you are satisfied with ingame items/consumables/etc as membership value, while other people like, Brit, Thunder, myself (and most of the players I interact with ingame) are not satisfied with items and expect actual ingame features and systems to justify a membership. So, no one is lying by not rehashing the OP Mepps posted and you're referring to; we're again saying items/perks are not an acceptable substitution for actual ingame features. And no amount of listing these "free perks" or Jedi mind tricks is going to impress someone who wants the game to have actual features to justify paying their subs.

That's not at all a bad faith argument.

Not Bad Faith = Only using points that serve to further your own argument knowing full well there are counter points that exist and you choose to completely ignore said points? Right.....

DCUO moved to a FTP Model many years ago, sure subscriptions always existed and you have limits on FTP but doesn't change the fact that DCUO is labeled as a FTP game and would it not be furthering said model by moving towards all episodes being free? Did you or others make threads to complain and protest at the start of covid and during it when the episodes were all OPEN for the better part of a year? Did you say DCUO how dare you make it free OPEN episodes, I pay a membership to access the episodes and now that they are free I should have compensation because what I pay for has been diluted? No I don't believe threads like that existed
I don't equate membership rewards or anything on the marketplace with a monetary value because DCUO sets what items are worth. How does one rationalize that 350 replays or a power respec is $10? who knows that's just what it is. Similarly to say a booster bunder is worth X dollars because it includes all those extra items that are near worthless to players but are in there to justify the price etc. If anything DCUO is actually catering to what players wanted, the cash cap has been a fight for a decade with FTP and Premium players where Brit even said currency cap was one of the most important features to sub for, which is laughable because you can just purchase unlimited escrow if you really wanted or simply trade items or money. The only thing you need a currency cap for really is to repair your gear or buy R&D components.

You are literally trying to justify that an argument is not bad faith when you are discussing membership perks when the new membership perks haven't even been fully released yet. How can you honestly say you or Brits argument wasn't completely in bad faith when you are arguing about a unreleased system to where you can't see or experience the full benefits?

Any rational, thinking person looking at the bigger picture, thinking both they and the game will be here in year 12 and beyond would look at lifetime as a good deal.
It's looking like the game will be here in year 12. It sure looks like you'll be here beyond.

For myself, it seems I made the right decision by not purchasing it....but I'm even a little iffy. If I had, perhaps I'd have a more laissez-faire attitude about logging in and out and taking extended breaks and being able to reap the benefits whenever I do decide to play for the rest of my life. In the end though I think I saved me some cash.
Yes it was offered during a precarious time, but if you're still logging in regularly and will be for the next few years you made yourself a good purchase.

By all means. Speak your mind.
Do not speak for any rational, thinking person.
I speak for myself.

I don't thrive on these exchanges like yourself so I'm not going to get into a whole "thing".
I stand by what I said.

Addressing the topic, because I didn't in my last post, I have no issue with the price of membership. The cost was never my issue.
Likewise, if they were to reduce the price by a third...that still probably wouldn't incentivize me to sub. Right now.

You don't get to tell me how to feel. You're welcome to think I'm wrong all you like.

There are plenty of things on this forum that are "warning worthy".
Whatever faults or omissions in his post...I don't think Brit's post was. "Explanation" and "clarification" worthy, sure.
Clearly, right or wrong, and perhaps even still after clarification, he doesn't feel membership is worthy to him.
You can disagree with him and think he's wrong...but he's entitled to feel how he feels for whatever reason. And again, his reasons aren't my own, so you're probably more likely to convince him than me.

Now, I'm of the opinion that trading cash in our shared bank on our own account should have been an option from day 1.

I didn't cheat or exploit.
I didn't get stinkin' rich.
I lost a bit of cash.
The economy is still a mess.
I can't mail cash between my characters.

We all know why. I don't care.
I can't mail cash between my characters.
Maybe making cash tradable in our shared bank should've have been given a higher priority after they took the previous benefit away.
Maybe not. I don't know.
I do know using the broker to trade cash is passable but certainly inelegant.

In any case, I suppose it's up to Mepps (...and...you?) to decide whether Brit's post was made with malice or not. Whether he purposely omitted or just missed seeing the added benefits. Perhaps, once you calmly explain to him all the benefits he's missing, you'll be able to change his mind. Perhaps the tact that should have been taken from the very start.
Because clearly, right now, right or wrong, he doesn't see the value.
And he is entitled to feel that way. Right or wrong.

Until I plan on logging in with any regularity, I don't see the value for myself.
I'll see what's being offered, I'll see how inclined I am to play, and I'll make a decision on those factors.

Thanks for playing.

Ouch!!!!! Apparently the truth hurts.
Also,
Don't forget being pigeonholed to endgame because of marks relevancy. Paid for access to whole game yet couldn't truly enjoy whole game because of marks relevancy.

Subbed since 2011....And to be fair. All those reasons that you listed are part of the reason why I stopped subbing last year. All those things you listed plus marks relevancy. I just couldn't do it anymore.

Now,
If marks relevancy being removed and the new clamping work out then I'll resub but not any sooner. Hopefully you reconsider.

devs: we made some changes; took out some features of your memberships and we're giving you free stuff instead
[many in the] community: we want game features and new systems
devs: okay but here's some free items and some discounts
[many in the] community: okay thanks, but we want game features and new systems
"devs" & OC: your reply is in bad faith.
[many in the] community: ...

Let's put aside the strawman you're making about the current state of the FTP system we have. No one brought it up. It can be bad and what's proposed as substitutions can also be disappointing for entirely different reasons. Both can be true. They're not mutually exclusive.

There's no waving your hand to convince people they should open their wallets for things they don't value or pretend it's what they want. People are/have been giving this feedback in different forms since the original membership thread. If it is going to be ignored by the dev team, those people will just end up moving on eventually. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ps. not restating the perks, when we're all implicitly aware of them already isn't operating in bad faith or furthering your own argument, it's assuming everyone knows (or we wouldn't be here discussing them) and just *not retreading*. If we weren't all fully aware of the changes, and needed the omitted info to inform us in the discussion, it would be operating in bad faith tho. This is not the case here.

If someone was paying a sub but couldn't enjoy the game because they weren't getting Marks in all content, that's on them. That's their own hang-up.

Not getting Marks in older content didn't mean you (speaking generally) were locked out of running that content, especially if you were subbed. Every single episode was still readily available for running and open for play. But if someone chose not to run that content because they weren't getting Marks (and why should they, they outgrew the content and don't have to put in the same effort as content at their CR), then they need to own that choice. It was their own decision not to run it.

Now, what I think is going to be interesting to watch is to see how many endgame folks pull a reversal of sorts and complain that they aren't getting Marks for at-CR content and now have to run older content to get said Marks. It almost makes me wish I'd compiled a list of those asking for/begging for/demanding Mark relevancy to be removed to see which ones would pull a reversal like that. LOL

This is confusing. Are we not getting new game features and new systems? Are subscribers not getting bonuses towards those new game features and new systems?

Now see, that's an example of a reply in bad faith. Thanks beautiful assistant.

You have the gift of hindsight, or did you know that a company like EG7 would put a huge cash influx to the game? If you had that kind of premonition then your stock portfolio must be really good. Any rational person would not in 2018 have clearly seen at least 5 years of membership to actually start to turn a positive in their investment into DCUO because just buying the lifetime was pointless just for DCUO because you missed out on every single reward so they more than likely also bought the $200 DCUO reward package.

I don't care about Brits post, he can say whatever he wants just as I do. What I do care about is all the white knights like yourself jumping to his aid to point out the flaws in what Mepps did when he was absolutely correct in everything he said. For you to try to defend that you have absolutely no ground to stand on and whatever weak arguments you put forth can easily be countered away.

Playing DCUO you should be well aware they take the path of least resistance in their fixes. You recall us being able to have link-dead and come back into a raid if we DC'd? Well that led to an exploit and guess what they just took link-dead away because that was the easiest way to fix the glitch. Removing the ability to mail money infinitely makes the gold websites job harder because now instead of simply mailing the money they have to arrange a trade in game at a specific time, giving them much more exposure to being banned because it's alot easier to trace trade logs from 2 different players and they can simply put a cap on trades or ban players for trading too much which they also did at the time.

I don't know if you know the "why or how" to any of that or you would have seen right through when Brit talked about it skewing the facts of what actually happened to that feature.

Maybe before someone blindly follows a post they will actually look at the content of the post in question.

Thanks for your reply, I hope I spaced out my sentences enough

New systems like having the daily log in routine of the vault and stabilizer event merged into a new system entirely? right..
New systems like Allies being introduced and having membership increases the amount of xp you get to level the new system? right...

I find it incredibly ironic you mention strawman when your entire argument and position is completely based around a fruitless attempt to present anything credible. Imagine defending a point about something that hasn't even been released yet. If someone was complaining about a raid that the devs showed a picture on twitter of what instance looks like would you not say in that case wait until we have more information or it comes out to form an opinion? I guess not nah this raid will suck cause the room is dark

"it's assuming everyone knows (or we wouldn't be here discussing them)" oh you mean like all the posts complaining about stat clamping when they actually haven't even a) seen the content being run b) run it themselves to see the impact of the clamping? It's the same thing Brit and the white knights have been saying here, you are complaining about membership perks without actually seeing or experiencing the final system and you wonder why Mepps said it was in bad faith?

Your attempt to describe anything else is laughable

The only argument that is remotely debatable is that membership perks leading up to this point have been underwhelming and pointless for years and now that they are changing all of a sudden players are upset.

Right

Did you think my questions were rhetorical?

You use the words "many in the community" like those that hold your view are more than an opposing view. For every person that doesn't think discounts and items are enough, there's others who are equally content.

Perhaps you remember our discussion (although I doubt it, since you weren't open to listening, I was just wrong) in the very early membership benefit thread where you wanted all sorts of game systems implemented including, but not necessarily limited to power color modifications and all sorts of things.

I told you then, and what has occurred only reinforces the point I made to you then, that you were better off being realistic about what was going to happen, here we are now where benefits added are discounts, bonus items (and some new systems to be fair)

With that being said though, not to distort the truth, there are arguably new systems being added in the form of allies, of which I'm sure members will find easier through member benefits, they're adding seals into the fate vendor and appear to be giving members a large additional grant of these, which although is an existing game feature (artifacts) gives members a significant advantage over non members in conjunction with an increased yield of Nth Metal.

The problem with Brits post was that he didn't actually outline anything positive that had changed, just railed the bad, which is fine, we've all been guilty of doing this when getting whipped up by perceived negativity, all he got was a warning, it's not like he got banned, so it's best just to learn from it and next time try to articulate the response in a balanced and constructive manner.

As a side note, everyone around here knows my position with regard to cash caps (I hated the prospect of them being removed) yet you'll notice I've not argued about it even remotely since it was announced, why? Because I'm satisfied that I should still get reasonable benefit from their new implemented systems and perks, which although you might not think matters, probably should say something

I think we'll both agree I just railed the bad.
Did I not articulate myself properly?
Was I not balanced and constructive?
I could be more detailed. I could be more constructive.
But again...deaf ears.

I'm not sure, is your name Brit?