The real reason why Prec needs a NERF

Please stop assuming people are not good enough. You don't know me or them. Just a friendly advice because blameing people for their poor damage or rotations is so cheap and lame.

First, thank you for showing me this, I didn't ignore that post, I just simply skipped it because I don't live on forums like Mr. EveryoneIsStupidButMe-deity.
So, finally somebody made a video with might. Good job whoever was that. 3:44 against 3:34, now we can see the difference at least. If 10 seconds means 5% less damage. But it's actually 9,17%. Solo has 105 seconds cutscenes and waiting time for door opening all together. During that you can't fight or run ahead obviously. So 3:44=224 seconds, 3:34=214 seconds. 224-105=119, 214-105=109. So pure time difference is 10 seconds which is 9.17%. To be exact.
So if we take these 2 videos as basis of maximum damage of might and prec, prec wins with 9,17%. I know the whole thing of balance between prec and might can't be described so easily but it's a good base after all. 9,17 is not a small number in damage imo.

In the last video I posted, the spread between the 5 dps is because everyone has their role. Some did aoe, some did st, some did mechanics, like lassoing adds or activating cogs. It's an obvious thing, I thought it's clear to everyone...

Blablabla... Carry on with talking nonsense. I know you love me, you know I'm right. Prec is broken, thank you for proving it.

So when all else fails deflect because you have nothing of substance to say? Got it

Are you telling me that there are no bad/mediocre players in DCUO? lol... There are plenty - the majority, in fact. And very few of them admit, that they're being outperformed because of something they're doing wrong, or at least not as well as others. I don't have to know every bad player personally to know for a fact, that almost every one of them blames the game for their own shortcomings. Which is cheap and lame. That's not to say the game is perfectly balanced - that would be practically impossible - but people blow it out of proportion, in order to make themselves feel better. So, yeah - the assumption that a DPS who consistently falls behind by a large margin does so - at least partly - through their own fault is statistically a fairly safe bet.

That video was posted on YouTube over 2 months ago. Almost a month before the Prec DPS one was. Meaning - the Prec player had a few more weeks of practice and trying for the best possible RNG.

Yes, if it's consistent across all powersets and in all situations. And from just those 2 videos we can't tell if that's the case. Some powersets perform better as Prec, others as Might. Some are better at solo content, others tend to rely on support more. Some have better ranged options, other excel in melee. Et cetera.

Lol... Really? Did you watch the entire video? You can see the scorecard at 5:45. I don't know what cogs you think they were activating, or what adds they were lassoing before they got to the second boss fight, but at that point the difference between the lowest and the highest DPS is ~20% in boss damage and ~45% in overall damage. And the other DPS are spread throughout those ranges. In fact - those differences are substantially smaller at the end of the raid, after all the lassoing and burning of adds and the mechanics of the last boss. As for ST and AOE they all seem to be switching weapons, which is one of the things you were complaining about. So I'm not sure what "roles" you're thinking of, that are so "obvious" and "clear to everyone".

The point is - there are a lot of factors that account for the overall damage, so concluding that Prec DPS is X% more powerful than Might on the basis of a couple of videos is simply impossible, which I'd have though would be clear to everyone. That is why if you want to prove, that one type of DPS is overpowered - which it possibly may be, for all I know - you're going to have to present results of some actual testing, eliminating as many factors as possible.

Not to mention that the video of the light player was also a lower cr than the one posted at 3:34

Damn, you're right. Somehow I missed that detail. Probably because of the icon/emoji covering top left corner of the screen when watching the video embedded. Well, that puts things into perspective.

This is your assumption, you can't know how bad or good the players are here on forums. I either can say you're a bad dps or you don't know anything about the game. Does this make it true? So please stop.

And you think that migh player just jumped into the solo without any preparation and pushed the rec button by accident? smh

Yes, true. But these 2 videos (both rage) are a very good example of prec doing better than might. Both players gave their best. It's not an official statement but illustrates the current situation well. Good starting point.

You know what? I'll do more research when I got a bit free time. But as afar as I can say based on my research I've had, prec is doing significantly more damage than might. Just take a look on youtube videos. Ohh, you can say they don't use good roatations, etc but in that case it's true for both, might and prec and prec still has the advantage.

Omg, really? Some entered with full sc, some uses mercy to buff their pets, some is in goood position to damage targets (in line) some isn't, some uses better dots (like elec), some people dies and some revives them (-5-8 sec which -4-6m dmg), etc, etc. Do I really need to explain you how this work? Come on... You're arguing on absolutly obvious things...

What do you think why most of the elitists and tryhards pick prec? Hm? Because it's better than might. That's why. Proving that is not so easy, need to start somewhere. But those 2 videos are very good testings yet you still keep trying to deny the obvius. It's ok, it's your job I get it.

Ohh, and we haven't talked about weapon switch which is not a broken thing but a HUGE advantage in combat, btw.

Yes, I got nothing to say to you because you're just an irrelevant troll here and arguing makes you happy. I haven't told you anything about prec for days, yet you still keep replying me. I'll make you happy no worries.

It’s true you haven’t said anything about prec to me specifically. That’s cause you just don’t know what you’re talking about. And you too keep replying lol

So are you. I've just sunk to your level. When will you wanna marry me?

It's not an assumption. It's a fact, that in case of any activity, that requires skill and effort - including video games - only a small percentage is very good at it. A larger number is pretty bad at it - because being bad doesn't require anything - and the rest is somewhere in the middle - so mediocre. I wasn't talking about the forum, but the general in-game population, however I have no reason to believe that the small percentage of DCUO players, who are forum users is composed of predominantly good players. In fact - judging by what some of them say publicly, I can state with very high confidence, that they're not good at the game. The world is full of incompetent and not very bright people. DCUO is just a small sample of that.

You can say whatever you want about me, I don't particularly care and it doesn't change anything. But if you want to convince anyone of anything, you'd better address arguments made, not the person. I'm not saying that Prec and Might are balanced, because most players are not particularly good. I'm saying, that bad players tend to blame the game for their performance, just like a bad workman blames his tools. So if we want to establish whether the game is balanced or not, we can't rely on what people say, but on actual data.

No, of course not. But the more time you spend doing something, the better your chances of getting a better results. That's how speed-running works - over time the times get shorter. We don't know how many times each of them tried before posting the video of their best results. What we do know though is that one of them had a lot more time to practice, than the other. And also MIght player's CR in the video is 426 (on adds) and 427 (bosses), while Prec player's - 430. You think that if the Might player kept trying for a few more weeks, with full Elite gear, he/she wouldn't shave at least a few seconds off his/her time? You recon stats are irrelevant? Tell that to those people in this thread, who complain, that someone with slightly lower CR outDPSed them, so the game must be unbalanced.

Sure, it's a start. But it's one example, of one powerset, in a situation not very representative of the whole game. We don't see players going full melee in that CTE+ video, do we? Also - we don't know whether it was both players' best. As I said, one of them didn't even have the highest CR possible at the time. You can get CR426 with just regular vendor gear + the OP chest from previous episode.

Precision definitely has some advantages. Main one being - you don't get stuck in long channeling animations, that can get you killed in more difficult content. Another - Prec builds are very similar, regardless of powerset, so once you develop muscle memory for clipping 2 weapon combos, you can pretty much play any power, as long as you're also SS. All of which is possibly why many experienced players, who run E+ regularly, gravitate towards Precision. I'd wager, that most of those players would outperform most other players even as Might DPS. But of course - then those other players would blame something else, like art swapping, broken powersets, or whatever. Which they do, because god forbid anyone could simply be better at something.

How do you know all those "obvious things"? You seem to be assuming them, because they suit your narrative. That doesn't prove anything, other than what has already been said - repeatedly - that there are a lot of factors when it comes to damage and if you want to prove something, show an actual controlled test, not some random cherry-picked video that shows very little of what's going on.

Possibly because of what I said above. Which is also what Prec players I know tell me. I personally prefer Might, but I have some Precision builds and alts, which do a decent enough job for what arts and SP they have, but are by no means broken. And while there are many players - both Prec and Might - who DPS better than me, I have no problem with that, because most of them are simply better players than me, or at least have more experience, they put in more effort into optimizing and practicing their playstyles, and/or their gaming systems are better than my crappy old PS4. I also encounter many Prec players, that I can DPS circles around with my lowbie Might alts. I guess nobody puts those videos up on YT.

Yes, it's an advantage, but it comes at a cost of many skill points and requires some skill to do, because - as with all swaps - opening inventory at the wrong moment in difficult content gets you killed, or at least makes you lose damage. Otherwise - everyone would be doing it. It's a risk vs reward thing. And while it's less risky on better hardware, still not everyone can do it well.

soon

LowFlyingMoon said: ↑

“It's not an assumption. It's a fact, that in case of any activity, that requires skill and effort - including video games - only a small percentage is very good at it. A larger number is pretty bad at it - because being bad doesn't require anything - and the rest is somewhere in the middle - so mediocre. I wasn't talking about the forum, but the general in-game population, however I have no reason to believe that the small percentage of DCUO players, who are forum users is composed of predominantly good players. In fact - judging by what some of them say publicly, I can state with very high confidence, that they're not good at the game. The world is full of incompetent and not very bright people. DCUO is just a small sample of that.”

So if you say "only a small percentage is very good at it" then it's a fact. If I say prec is OP then that's an assumption. Everything you write here is assumption if you can't prove it, right? The same applies to you. So if you treat my arguments assumptions, do the same with yours, don't treat them as facts!

LowFlyingMoon said: ↑

“You can say whatever you want about me, I don't particularly care and it doesn't change anything. But if you want to convince anyone of anything, you'd better address arguments made, not the person. I'm not saying that Prec and Might are balanced, because most players are not particularly good. I'm saying, that bad players tend to blame the game for their performance, just like a bad workman blames his tools. So if we want to establish whether the game is balanced or not, we can't rely on what people say, but on actual data.”

Because the game and the combat system are too complex, it's not so easy to extract clear datas. For now, it's necessary to rely on the performance and experience of the players and break them down into numbers. This is not an easy task. But according to the current situation, a very large part of the experienced players use prec and this says a lot.

LowFlyingMoon said: ↑

“No, of course not. But the more time you spend doing something, the better your chances of getting a better results. That's how speed-running works - over time the times get shorter. We don't know how many times each of them tried before posting the video of their best results. What we do know though is that one of them had a lot more time to practice, than the other. And also MIght player's CR in the video is 426 (on adds) and 427 (bosses), while Prec player's - 430. You think that if the Might player kept trying for a few more weeks, with full Elite gear, he/she wouldn't shave at least a few seconds off his/her time? You recon stats are irrelevant? Tell that to those people in this thread, who complain, that someone with slightly lower CR outDPSed them, so the game must be unbalanced.”

How the hell you know that A player got 2 weeks and B player got 5 weeks to prepare? Maybe A player got 6 weeks and B player got 3 because he was on a vacation before or wasn't interested in speed run. Sorry but this is a completely meaningless assumption again...
You really think that 3 cr matters? That' a few thousands of might. At CR 430 you got 290k might. You really want to convince me that 10 seconds depended on that few thousands of might?! What's next? One is left-handed, other one is right-, so right-handed won?

It's a good example, of one powerset. We saw that player going full melee in another video in same solo btw. Those 2 players mastered prec and might side of rage and this is where the comparsion begins.

The main advantage of precision is weaponswap (besides damage ofc). That's why people pick prec. Easy, can be swapped between st and aoe anytime, best damage. Not to avoid channeled superpowers... However I have to admit I've met a few but not much might players with crazy damage but all of them used exploits. Like artswapping. Everyone knows it shouldn't work this way as it is now but devs don't care.
"I'd wager, that most of those players would outperform most other players even as Might DPS" Yes ofc... If so, they wouldn't have switched to prec...

Just watch that damn video and you can see people dying, or positioning bad, or their summoned pets have a green shield, or the orange circle when they use an sc, etc... If you don't see what they are doing in a combat as an outsider, what are we talking about??? Does everything have to be presented to you in detail to understand what's happening, like a child?

Who knows, maybe somebody recorded you just for fun.

No matter how hard you try to place it as a risky thing, it's a thing. And it gives a huge advantage. Might powersets don't allow you to use same loadout on st and aoe performing maximum damage on both ( combo powers like hl can come pretty close but do I really have to be hl even if I don't like it just to use one loadout? Or shold I just switch to prec and problem solved? You see.
I fyou can't swap your weapon fast enough due to your ps4 or poor internet, that doesn't change the advantage of it. Others can and they do.

This is the true advantage of prec, as I mentioned earlier in the thread. No might power can match that ability to maximize both single target and AOE damage that prec can during the same fight.

But I don't think that is a reason to nerf prec. When you just look at pure ST or AOE, might powers can use specialized load outs to keep up with prec. This disadvantage of might is you can't switch during combat back and forth, so you usually pick one or the other, or use a combo load out where you lose max damage on either. If you nerf prec, you might put them behind in a pure ST or AOE fight.

I agree that perc and might are balanced, player's don't seem aware that perc has more cons then pros compared to might, perc can be interrupted placing player's in "Helpless" status, which can be a death sentence in (elite and elite plus) content.

Might has a further range then precision and it's has instant casts, where precision has to use mobility and timing to get off their combo, I've also noticed many might based player's ignore additional damage effects, such as Crushing, Electrified, Frostbite, Burning, Terror, Etc.
Might is Faster, has further reach and can benefit from other members placing status effects that correlate with that might based power.
Not to mention might is more versatile having shields and heals allowing for greater survivability then precision.

It's best to use mights advantage in extended long range which can burn targets down before a precision based player even gets near.

It nedds to be nerfed because 8 of 10 dps are prec and 6 of 10 are electric prec. The electrics are canceling eachothers damage out and contemplating changing powers because they dont realize its 3 to 4 of them in a raid and thats why the gadgets comes out on thop

If might was so advantageous all of you prec players would be moght so u could puff out ur chest, beat content faster and top the score board

I recently witnessed an ice dps using the elite might artifact dead king scepter destroy an elite electric prec dps in cte and guess what dead king scepter beats prec not might, that scoreboard chasing flavor of the month power switching big baby left the raid before the biss hit her kness ...it was beautiful, ive also seen a nature using poison ivy and dead king kick ssa sideways but thats it prec over might 9 of 10 times

Lol... The difference is - I'm not crying and asking anyone to nerf anything. I can believe whatever I want about the majority of players, or you. I don't have to convince anyone of anything. If you don't want to believe the statistical fact, that most people are sh*t at most things - that's your problem. If you want something to change - the burden of proof is on you. Shouting and stomping your feet won't help.

Lol... You know what we can be sure of? That the Might player didn't run the instance for 2 months, because the episode hadn't been around that long when he posted the video. We can also be sure he didn't have the best gear possible. If you want to believe, that Prec player got his best time on the first try, 2 months after episode's release and the Might player spent 12h trying every day for a month - because it suits your narrative - be my guest. But you're not convincing anyone with even basic grasp of probabilities.

No, mate. It doesn't matter. I'm sure you didn't get the Elite gear set, because why bother if it doesn't matter. And you don't grind SP because they only give you small stat boosts. And you're wondering why you can't keep up? Lol...

Is it? lol... Then why were you talking about some players in the video doing less damage than others, because "some are doing AOE, some ST"? Was it just more BS assumptions, that suited your position, which you're now backing out of?

Yeah, it's pretty clear why you fall behind on the scoreboard. You don't understand the game. Go into SWE+ and try pulling off long combos, or stand channeling, while sh*t explodes under your feet.

Tell me - how many hours have you spent playing Precision? Because I'm going to bet - not many, if at all. And if you tried - you didn't so well. If you think Prec is so OP and easy - just switch to Prec and see how much better you'll do. Better players will outDPS you even if you're Prec and swapping every artifact known to man.

You're right. You can believe what you want but that doesn't make it fact! Keep in mind!
What statistical fact? You didn't show anything. That 'fact' is only in your mind...

Omg... You really like arguing, don't you? Might player decided he prepares in 1 week. Prec player, 3 days. Both have run many times the solo before, doesn't matter it's one month or 3. Maybe the might player ran 20 times a day and prec 2 times. You don't know. Both took as much time to prepare as they needed. You're just desperatly trying to arguing on nothing...

Loooool. That's it? That's all you can do? Why don't you say I'm noob instead? In your mind most of the players are bad tho. If you can't complete the solo with cr426 during same time like if you were cr430 then you're just bad. Sorry but that's a real fact! If you think you can't complete cte+ with a 4 cr lower toon due that few thousands of might difference, I don't know what to say then...
People like to maximize their stats, cr, sp, etc. There's nothing wrong with that. Everyone wants to be better and better. You haven't played any mmo before?

Lol, you clearly don't or don't want to understand what's happening in a fight and why the damage numbers are different. Others will get it don't worry. But what did you except honestly? Did you think I show you a video about prec dpses and they have exactly same dmg? And if not, you can say, ohh, you see, if prec was so op, there wouldn't be any damage difference. So lame and cheap...

Hahahaha... You deny the obvious all the time and don' t understand even how a fight works and why damage spread during it and really am I the one who doesn't understand the game? Loool.
Swe+? Perfect example. As might I spent months there to complete all feats. You got problem with channeled powers? Another proof you don't even know what you're talking about. Go back to tutorial and learn to play. This monologe of yours just proved how bad you are at might, ty.

At least now you said bet and not fact lol. I've tried prec yes for months. It was easy and had better damage. I liked the damage output but didn't liked the jump, jump, jump flurry shot animation all the time. It's very annoying to me, drives me crazy. And artswap is not a problem to me. I used gamer mouse with macro buttons, so it's eady af. However I'm against of broken prec and artswap because it's not fair imo.
Ohh, assumptions again and again, how bad player I am... Dude, you got serious obsessions about people, everyone is bad, stupid... Haven't you thought even just once yet that the problem might be you amd your mind?