#UniteThePVPPlayers: Movement - Immunity and Farming

This has to be one of the worst posts I've ever read.

There's accusations of stating assumptions of fact and absolutes, yet the post is full of claims of "facts".

There's several baseless accusations of character and insults that indicate no real effort to communicate or discuss at all.

To be frank, your posts have given an indication that your intentions are simply to lash out at those who stand in disagreement to yourself, and show behavior that goes in direct opposition to the purpose of these forums. If you show no intention of actually being reasonable, I see no reason to put my efforts attempting to discuss with someone intent on ruining a form of entertainment I enjoy and want others to enjoy

Chillcat, I'm sorry it has taken this much time from your thread. I had hoped she would have eventually seen reason. Thank you for your continued efforts on behalf of the PvP community.

Please keep posts on topic and constructive. It is a part of the terms of service and rules for the forum.

So, please direct any further posts in this thread to the topic of counter immunity.

Karararararara & Soulolololololol
stop arguing with people who just want to have the last word!!

Ayaya have not played for a while
but Ayaya remembers dcuo was more fun before immunity
immunity split people apart like Karararara said
if dcuo want more people it should get rid of immunity

Ayaya has spoken.

I remember Ayaya from Death & Glory... Damn pvp was fun back then!

Yes I'm reminiscing, what of it? ;-)

You better watch out, you stating you were having fun is very non-constructive and hardly on topic

I just want to clarify 2 things.

(1) "Counter punishment" in Legends was cited as a reason why immunity needs to stay. Now, no one care seriously argue that "counter punishment" is not real. The argument is that Legends are not balanced around "counter punishment." Both sides have stated that this is most likely true.

Therefore, step one is asking whether we want the devs to embrace "counter punishment" as they did with midrange and clipping before that. Only then can we move to step two and ask if certain Legends should be balanced with immunity in mind.

Since neither of those steps have been taken, it is premature to make the argument that immunity needs to stay to make "counter punishment" in Legends viable.

That said, "counter punishment" can still exist even if immunity were modified. It just depends on how it is modified. But my personal preference is to NOT embrace "counter punishment" because, to me, it slows the game down.

(2) The only reason why Legends was brought up in this thread was because of the argument that immunity must stay because of Legends. More specifically, immunity must stay because of the many impractical, gimmicky powers in Legends.

However, this argument implies that the only realistic solution to impractical, gimmicky powers is immunity. This is a non sequitur; the conclusion does not flow logically from the previous statement.

The other side would then respond, "it's too much work to fix impractical, gimmicky powers individually." This is a cop-out. It implies that Legends are currently balanced when in fact they are not balanced at all. Work would need to be done either way.

Therefore, we should not cite Legends as the reason that immunity cannot change. It is not a fact, and not a strong argument. What would be a strong argument is to say "I personally like immunity because it allows me to use impractical, gimmicky powers in Legends for the one purpose of 'counter punishment.'"

And to that I would ask if there is any way we can BOTH get what we want? To change immunity so that you can keep "counter punishment" while also satisfying the other side's requests? I just don't like immunity because it discourages you from playing with others.

Well said Ayaya. Well said.

Remove the shielding once dmg vs. effective health in line but keep the immunity to counters (maybe reduced duration). Its not only about counter punishment...

It's off-topic but could not help it.

I didn't use any strong words like "need", "must", or "cannot" in the bit I suggested. I think the way you're inserting them to represent other people's opinions is leaning a bit toward a strawman description. This bit about gimmicky powers for example, that is more like a parody of what you don't like than what I've been reading here.

I understand your point about playing with other people though, and it's fair to say that's not captured very well in any of these summary attempts. How do you think this works as a description?

Opponent counter immunity limits an entire team's attacks because of the damage absorption. Newer players handicap skilled ones when they "give away" immunity. That segments people by skill level rather than encouraging all of them to play together.

As far as combat speed goes, right now in arenas the elevated damage speeds up the pace. Then counter immunity slows it back down. Everyone seems to agree though that if damage were slowed down more directly, the value of immunity to pacing would be a lot less important.

You're correct, you did not use strong words yourself. I quoted you because you implied that people were arguing "counter punishment" did not exist when it does in fact exist even if the devs do not recognize it. That is a strawman. The actual argument was that devs do not balance Legends based on "counter punishment." Maybe they should, but they don't.

I don't feel I parodied anything and it was not my intent if I did. I'll apologize anyways. I felt my summary of the arguments put forth thus far is accurate.

That is an excellent summary. Thank you.