The # 1 problem with pvp.......

I was going to say players, but I see we're already four pages deep into this.

Players is the farthest thing from it.

If that was true, we wouldn't get threads of people complaining that "oh gee, WM is the worst thing for pvp, it's like a two shot on test/post GU41" as though there weren't plenty of counters in between two consecutive WMs (if anyone even dares to do that). One or all things are missing depending on the situation: counter back, soda, healer. The first one is purely player dependent. With the new gear and all changes, WM seems fine to me. No amount of complaining will make it go away if that's what some of these threads are trying to achieve.

I like to think of WM in this case as holding a slow **** 1-magazine rocket launcher. Tossing in two rockets per death may sound good, but makes you stupid vulnerable "between reloads" (aka, reperforming the combo). Even if you had enough immunity for cover on the first round, you will be open on the second or end of the first depending on your weapon. And the two shot thing? This is assuming the person is standing there and not using any sort of mitigation or counter whatsoever, not even from powers. I'm...satisfied

I have to disagree. I think PvP was fine before WM and the addition of WM only changed things for the worse. And in a 5v5, it's entirely possibly, especially if you're being focused, that you get one-shotted by 2 people WMing you while another is BBing you. Normal weapon combos are enough for PvP. And the simple truth is, the only reason WM was ever created was for PvE because people complained that other powers couldn't do as much damage as the powers that could jump cancel and clip fast. I think, and many agree, that PvP would be much more fun if WM was not a part of it.

This is the way I see it. Take the sport of soccer. Imagine that the group of people who have the power to change the official rules of soccer decided to make a change so that there would no longer be goalkeepers. Now, every team would play with an open net and there would only be 10 players on each side. At first, the players thought, "Cool, we can score more goals now." And they did. But it became too easy. Goals were going back and forth non-stop. The players got annoyed and bored. They wanted goalkeepers back so the game would be fair and fun again. Unfortunately, the commission that has power over the rules has still not agreed to change them back, and to this day, while some still do play soccer, almost nobody enjoys it.

That's not really true. If you're just a hair behind in latency and the first stun is put on you -- you immediately lose half your health before you can break out and hit your shift key. That's pretty much starting a fight with one hand tied behind your back.

That's a crowd control issue, not a weapon mastery issue. This is another reason they need to fix crowd control before GU43.

Either way it's a bust.

Weapon mastery is not as big of an issue as CC effects are. I am being juggled all around the place and not being able to do anything.

Obviously, but don't try to blame something that isn't the source of the problem. That's what leads to all these different band-aids being tossed over everything and the real issues never being resolved.

It's not just rage. In 4vs4, there's at least either a celestial or gadget flier with HB and just wm from top, I have tons of health I'm full elemental with 3 new gears and get ONE shotted as a freaking tank lol...also I heard HB has some bugs and is hitting for almost 3x as much and ppl abusing it atm

Agreed. I have chosen to float in mid air while cautiously and meticulously tapping the R1 button to breakout. This is so I do not accidentally re-emerge in a blocking position only to get block broken again. If I become block broken it re-invites the nonsensical cycle all over again. One-handed Pulse Beam Mastery supplements this "crowd control issue" and is partly responsible for my airborne experiences.

OMG a post from you in which I can agree..but this was the point I was trying to make about HT mods and consumables they werent the real problem..simply removing these things did not fix pvp or even make it better ..The real problem lies in the cc issues and the counter latency..I stated many timed because of the flux of people complaining about things that are trivial the real problems get ignored