DPS pet trinkets hierarchy...... go

I would love for you to tell me how a damage pet can be considered progression.

Do you need a damage pet trinket to level 1 through 30?
Do you need a damage pet trinket to complete a seasonal?
Do you need a damage pet trinket to complete a event/regular/elite raid?
Do you need a survival mode pet trinket for a feat?
Do you need a survival mode damage trinket to complete SM?

Even as a source shard dps which is the only argument you can possibly make you can still be a source shard dps without running a dps pet trinket with Robot Sidekick - Grim and you would have to spend $200 to get it to rank 200 so that you have the option to have a 3rd damage source and even then the godwave variables come into play when you would trigger it for a dps pet trinket vs another pet already earned in game. The only blatant lie is your response to this topic to feel that you have to be privileged enough that no matter what DCUO does it should be given on a silver platter. So a player spends hours and the skill and co-ordination required to complete a round 30 SM should have the same level of pet trinket reward as a alert that can be farmed daily with pugs? that is the problem, the belief that statement should have truth to it.

Just to clarify for myself, when you say the turrets do overall more damage as a whole, do you mean that current and the new turrets that are coming will do around / same damage as a combat pet? But again I don't think that's the case as a turret puts out lots of damage in only 10 seconds where as a combat pet has its damage spread out over 60 seconds.

I would love to use a turret for future reference but I'm a dps chaser (unfortunately, its just how I like to play) and the combat pet just gives me all around better dps in the long run. Mind clarifying it for me?

I also like the changes. I'm glad you're actively communicating with us on changes. It means a lot. Seriously.

The artifact pet Quizlet needs an overhaul too. It hits slow and very weak. On the surface seems alright attacks every 5 seconds for only 1500 damage but it takes like 5 seconds to spawn once u attack something, and then it has to get in position to attack takes a few more seconds and if something or someone is in the way it doesn't attack until you move, so you barely get anything out of Quizlet. If it hit faster or a little harder or spawned faster or didn't get hung up so much with obstacles or if it was out all the time so it didn't have to spawn it might have some usefulness, right now it's pretty much useless. 1500 damage every 5 seconds if your lucky which averages more like every 10 seconds is pretty bad typically i kill mobs before Quizlet even spawns and on boss fights it gets hung up on obstacles way to much like other people and other peoples pets and barely even attacks. So I hope you look into overhauling Quizlet a little bit as well with all the new changes.

All things do more damage with the conversion and have a similar relation to each other as the did before - just... more. This goes for the old turrets and the new ones coming up in SM and other pieces of content.

I'll look at it but no promises. Quizlet and other combat pets are probably a different beast behind the scenes but if similar enough, maybe some changes can be made, we'll see.

I was about to harass you for your misspelling of Quislet's name ... but then I imagined you creating a new pet, something designed by The Riddler that just follows you around and poses riddles: Quizlet.

So if you're secretly working on that for April Fool's Day, the cat seems to be out of the bag.

Sorry, but your answer is just disingenuous. 10% for a pet - no matter how small it is compared to your full dps, it's more. If it is more, then it is progress. Small, tiny but this is progress. Your questions don't make sense. Everything that you have listed is possible without maximum SP, without OP equipment, without elite equipment and without much, much more if you take it one by one ... but all this is part of your character's progress, each new SP, no matter how small an increase is progress ... each additional CR is a progress ...
Perhaps ... you are not a hypocrite, and you just do not understand the context in which the word "progress" was used in my post, well, just ask and do not throw groundless accusations.
Progress in character strength, not progress in content advancement. I hope now you will not argue with objective facts? (no matter how much 10% gives a small increase to your character's strength, this is an objective increase).

You want additional bonuses (which do not exist at the moment, no one takes away any bonus from you (and from me, by the way), you want the developers to add a bonus) for your "exorbitant" work and at the same time say that I want some privileges? I just want things to be consistent with words. If they said that SM is cosmetics and prestige, then let it be so. You!! not i ,want some additional reward for your achievements, you!! not i ,want additional bonuses (which are not currently available). This is not enough for you a unique pet, or a unique material or other unique cosmetics, you want to change (at the moment there is no such advantage) which will give you an advantage over those who ,for some reason, did not catch the SM.. It is you who want to be always privileged despite changes in the game, it is you who want your playstyle to be always rewarded as much as possible, regardless of changes in the game.

Everyone who read your post knows exactly your context of progression, you seem to be the only player that feels that pet trinket damage is tied to your character progression. Why don't you come dps in one of my league's runs of COUE, I'll tell them not to even run a pet trinket and you can and watch how much you are out dps'd by and then tell me how a pet trinket can be tied to progression. Perhaps as a source shard dps you would like to que up a PCE and then tell how much your pet trinkets are tied to your progression as a dps.

You want things consistent with words? I guess you have been unaware of any actual testing with your character tied progression of damage trinkets are you would have been aware of the fact that the shadow bat as always been above the dark construct and vampire in damage averages, now Charon is telling you why that has been the case. Shadow Bat came out over a year ago and all of a sudden you want to make this case that it should all be the same because of character progression, this is simply par for the course. The shadow snake turret was also above the snake turret. Your ignorance to how the damage scaling in pets have worked for the past year plus is not our responsibility.

The second post is from you, and again you are challenging what you yourself came up with. In the first post, you disputed things that I didn't say. And now you are again talking about something of your own. Are you sure that you are answering me, and not one of your friends in the league?
Answer directly without evasion and without moving on to completely different topics. Is (100% + 10%) more than (100%) or not? "Yes" or "no" ? Just a "yes" or "no" answer, without unnecessary demagogues.

It's strange, the information that "Dark Construct Bat" in average inflict minimum more damage than "Shadow Bat" if we take the normal number of tests (at least 20-40 and not those ridiculous 3 that are in your videos), I indicated many times (including immediately after the release of "DCB" , I even indicated where, and why exactly this difference occurs), so again you are not talking to me.
But that's not even the point. At this particular moment, SM is not tied to any progress, and this is consistent with the statement that “SM does not affect your progress”. If you increase the damage of SM pets by 10% over any other pets, this statement will be false. No matter how minimal this difference is (10%, 1%), it will be, and the statement about the lack of progress in the SM will become a lie. And all this to amuse your vanity?

+1 to Ballistics comment, it does mean a lot Charon that you are communicating. Honestly, even if I was against what you're doing, I'd still be happy we all get the chance to discuss.
Ps- yeah quislet is funky. We all really want to like him but mannnnnn he is just doing his own thing half the time lol
Pps- I know this one may be a problem buttttt anything that could be done to our powerset pets so that they aren't given power back by sparring targets would be incredible. It is so hard to get an actual test result when they just keep popping powers off that we aren't triggering. Thankssss

That's something Batuba's replacement would be able to look into. I'll add that to the list of things.

+1 on Quislet

i hate that i leveled it up to 200 just to ONLY use it to build S/C in my base before raids. super underwhelming and underperforming.
i would hate to feed it into another artifact, but it actually doesnt serve a purpose for most people.
Until we get a 4th artifact slot maybe one day.
i cant justify substituting any other artifact for it at all

You're on fire Charon. Thanks again

Actually yes, yes I would. As a Source Shard user, any advantage X pet will have over other pets is progression towards my dps. So having those gated behind SM indeed makes the "SM is only about prestige and cosmetics" a blatant lie.

I was about to but held myself back. I've been using him as hallway add trash cleanup to just be my constant 3rd pet for my 200 source and to not use trinkets during those parts of the instances. He seems to do ok on large long lasting groups. Anything other than relevant content, he hasn't even popped out by the time the adds are cleared. But I think we may be starting to derail the actual conversation since it should only be about trinket pets.

You are operating under the assumption that pet damage is in any way tied to progression which is an absolute ludicrous assumption. You can try to rationalize it any way you think so that your original opinion holds merit. Whether or not a SM pet or a rare drop pet doing more damage than a free reward like vampire or a vendor trinket like the Brainiac drone is irrelevant. Your notion that dps progression is tied to trinket damage or even as you said it yourself a players immersion into the game is what I have been discussing here which you have completely evaded responding to. Being a source shard dps, while that is your specific niche choice you know full well that just because trinket x in a perfect testing setup does more average damage than trinket y means NOTHING inside of an actual raiding scenario, where pets can be cc'd, killed, have range issues, godwave not procing at the right time to line up with your pet's attack combos, ie the bats and their pauses or the ST beam and not the aoe projectile. There are NUMEROUS variables that come into play which you conveniently want to leave out of your rationale. You could easily have a pet trinket out perform something that's better on paper from how it's used in combat. Don't try to fabricate justification just because a completely legitimate hierarchy of trinket damage averages puts some behind a skill wall. I don't see threads complaining on how dark construct or rare drop trinkets would still be better than free/vendor trinkets just the spotlight on SM. You could run Damage Control alert 100 times and not get the Dark Construct Bat to drop but you complete X SM round and you are guaranteed that drop. If you want to cling to the statement that SM is just cosmetics and disregard any other interpretation than be my guest if that is so your desire.

Nothing says "Welcome to the team!" like that sort of list.

The answer to your question lies in the answer to mine (it is also present initially in my post, which you commented the first time). (100% + 10%) more than (100%) or not? Yes or no ?

All the variables that you listed affect the specific result of a particular raid (alert, duo, solo or any other content), but they do not depend on the answer to the question (at least within the framework of increasing damage by 10%, if the damage is increased by hundreds of percent, then it will affect these variables very strongly (interestingly, did you notice that with an increase in the difference in damage, your argument will play against you?) ... and do not affect the answer to the question .. Also, they do not affect the answer, to the question (which gives more increase in DPS 50 SP placed in the main statistics or 200 SP).

The only person who "fabricates" an excuse for your thesis is you. You still haven't answered a simple question.

SP, CR, Artifacts, Trinkets, elite equipment, OP items, each of them is a part of your character's progress. Each of them affects the strength of your character. Some of this has a big impact, something small (1 SP? Minimum, 100 SP? Tangible ... the difference between DCB and SB? Small, the difference between "Shadow Bat" and "Tini Starro" ? Noticeable)

If a unique pet from content that is positioned as content that does not affect your character's capabilities is stronger than any other pet, would it be false to say "rewards from this content do not affect your character's strength"?

After reading all the comments, and discussing it with multiple players from other leagues, all of whom run elite &/or SM content, the majority would just prefer that all the pets do the same damage. No tiers for pets. That way a player can have the pet that looks the best for that "themed" toon. It seems you already balanced them out well and let's just leave it at that and move on. Most players are happy with a new look or the latests looking pet trinket. There are certainly a lot more things in the game that need more attention that require fixes, changes etc. And this subject has caused more disagreement between players. Even though I'm going against my original suggestions, I believe it's better for the community to just move on to other things. Something this minut really isn't worth it.

Thanks for all the communication and time on this.

When PC Test is open to the public again, a new testing box with all the combat trinket pets will be on the testing vendors. They include everything from Seahorse up to Gazer but won't include the new SM pets just yet. Those will get added after SM theme is revealed.