Stats Revamp 1.7 - Celestial

The combos were given a damage buff the more inputs you use for them, Considering plague has 3 inputs, it should hit hard.

What Fatal said + the fact that the longer the input the higher the chance of getting interrupted and getting out of it with zero damage (risk vs. reward). Also you keep using power per input which translate into much higher power in than other powers that should then logically result in much higher damage out than other powers.

Feedback: healing

First impression, the power costs are something fierce. This puts cele in a position where you can't spam, you need to be tactical with your heals and it definitely makes solo healing much more skillful. I don't see the average pug group pulling off solo heals very easily.

Bug: information gathered by Charmed about dom based heals, is this intended? I'd like to think its just a bug and some heals aren't supposed to be dom based, otherwise it wouldn't make much sense. Example is DL, even though I was getting 13 k crits from it, Charm did a dom spec and her base DL heals were 12 k on the burst, that would mean it would crit for at least 24 k. Again, hopefully this isn't intended and you make all heals resto based like they should be.

If I may chime in, I think there is definitely a bug.

Divine Light for me was hitting up to 7-9k crits on the burst and the hot was at hitting up to 680-822 crits. Meanwhile, regular heals hit 4-6k on the burst and 320-576 on the hot with a beginner level set of gear modded with Special Forces Dom Mods and with Special Forces Dominance Generator Mods.

Confirmation:
I decided to do low level gear to eliminate the variable of Restoration as much as possible to isolate the strength on dominance itself. Any and all restoration was factored out in this test.

Short version:
It's got a curve that is contributing too much to healing, which is the same issue that was recurrent with the first iteration of stats revamp.
This isn't just messing with the bursts of things or hots.
The exponential curve obtained with skill points is the problem notwithstanding that restoration while more potent than Dominance, contributes in a more linear fashion rather than an exponential fashion.
This in turn nullifies the idea of split specs and forces one to choose resto or dom, when in fact a split spec should be just as potent or even more potent than a singularly focused spec.
This also doesn't help shielding either with the low availability of dominance for healers and our shields are in fact 112.5% restoration + 150% dominance.

Crits are a non factor this time around as we want the non crits factor to be as balanced as possible, however what I saw alerted me.

The heals affected are not just Divine Light but Cleansed Blight, Corrupted Admonish, Corrupted Renew, Curse, Cleansed Deathmark, and Cleansed Consume Soul have shown an adverse effect of an intended function.
Anything that affects 4 or more allies within line of sight or anything that has a wave heal type of function is affected.

If this issue were to be corrected then dominance would become more acceptable in the equation and then we would need to have a set amount of dominance in gear to increase the strength of healing over time and fix the healing meta while also freeing up skill points to spec into others things such as might or precision or health or continue to build on dominance without affecting controllers and tanks.
This would also give healers stronger shielding as well and wouldn't require a huge reconfiguration across all powerset but I can definitely see why dom is so potent.. we share the same healing formula with tanks as always but certain tanks like Fire Atomic and Rage need a potent stat to heal with so it's in dominance.
I just think the stat in healer role needs to be equalized and not affect us that much.

Guess that didn't turn out short at all. Oops. Sorry.

Also Divine Light itself is weaker than Renew and Admonish which doesn't make sense to me as Divine Light doesn't burst nearly as high as they do but it's nearly on par with Consume Soul but yet Corrupted Divine Light is more potent. Imo they should be equal and that is for PvP reasons.

I still haven't looked into the caps of Benediction cMalediction or Malediction cBenediction yet but I will and I expect decent burst.

Divine Light is still a dom based heal. I'm going to assume this is intended since you took time to change the name but not the burst/HoT?

Sacred Light is purifying enemies, I think this is a bug since the description doesn't say this.

Sacred light has always purified enemies. That's it's main purpose besides being a SC generator.

I don't know why I thought SC Generators had had their ability to apply PI removed in one of the iterations, I guess I messed there.
Then the description is missing that it purifies enemies.

Ok, I avoided testing until everything was on test to ensure there were no excuses from being heard. I'm starting with Sorcery and Nature then going on release order of the others. I've played all of these powers on live and on test and have a lot of experience with the healing role in the games most difficult content. Since this is basically the end of testing phase, until these powers go live I expect some feedback from these posts to understand why certain things are because the state of some of these powers are miles off from being ready.


TL;DR: Celestial is the best healing power set on test next to Electricity, has virtually no issues as it retains the exact same playstyle as it does on live, more punishing for spammy playstyle since power costs are fairly steep. Healing shields are still 6s which is an issue, give us an explanation as to why you won't increase the duration since change has been requested since 1.0. Sorcery and Nature healing need more development time than Celestial and Electric, they are not as enjoyable or viable to play.

I was actually surprised when you released Celestial like this, plays virtually exactly how it does on live, a complete contrast to how you did every other power set. To many that's a good thing but I am extremely frustrated because of this, you guys essentially ruined some of the core aspects of the other power sets but Celestial keeps everything the same especially since it's already top tier on live, keeping things the same while nerfing the other power sets Celestial again is one of the top tier power sets for healing.

Rant aside, I will echo the issue some of the others have already mentioned which is the power costs, sure Celestial has retained it's healing functionality but it's power costs are a lot more steep and essentially neutralizes the spammy playstyle it has on live, which is a good thing, unfortunately I believe those types of players will move to Electricity now since you can spam and have fairly decent results in healing with it. I personally have had 0 issues in power usage for this power set.

In all honesty I don't believe there are any issues outside that for Celestial besides from the battle healing aspects (I have not tried using Benediction/Malediction to heal so I can't give any feedback here). The healing numbers seem OK to me and it feels just as strong as it does in comparison to the live servers, it's expected because it didn't lose anything in comparison to the other healing power sets...

Turning Consume Soul and the combo variant into Burst then HoTs can help alleviate the healing problems due to a higher cooldown on Admonish, the strength increase to divine light in the latest update also helps it but also exasperates the power cost problems some people have claimed.

The only issue I have with all healer power sets are the healer shields, 6s is not a long time for when trying to revive people since any random effect in the game stops the revive, since you've basically ignored this issue for 8 updates I'll assume you do not care since we don't get a reason to why shields are staying the same, have you coded the game to where all shields including the tank shields use the same formula? It's such a critical change that impacts the game in difficult content largely.

Lastly, please give more development time to Sorcery and Nature healing, these two are still far from viability, Electricity and Celestial are mostly fine with Electricity needing minor TLC.

yes, the more down they are in the tree the more they should hit and cost in power drainage

10 bucks on live people will complain when dueling celestials like on launch day where they get "one-shotted"

Yea i get it, i had just got on test when i posted that and i was still learning stuff, it just surprised me that plague was hitting better than it hits on live lol

Celestial has lost a lot less compared to every other power set, Sorcery Nature and Electricity have had their identities butchered, play styles completely changed, Celestial plays exactly the same way and has all it's abilities doing near enough the exact same things.

I never found the purification PI to really be a core part of the healing, I only used Divine Light when it was absolutely needed as the HoTs from everything else were more than enough.

Sure initially when Celestial first came onto test it may have been hot garbage and I didn't test because I was tired of making long posts like I'm doing now and getting no response or changes made, I'm only writing these posts now because they want to release the revamp soon and some of these powers are in no way shape or form ready to ship out.

As much as you want a cooldown reduction for Admonish it won't happen since it'll go against their cooldown formula for the 4man heals that the other power sets have, I agree this is a nerf to Celestial but a buff to the other power sets, yet Admonish is still the stronger of the lot since it retained the choice of casting an 8man HoT where as Sorcery lost the pet powering portion of it's 4man ability and Electric lost the ability to utilize the safety net healing PI with the priority heal.

Divine Light seems more than strong enough to me now, with the latest vendor gear it was hitting 8.5k base healing, it's just as strong as it is on live, it's just the power cost is absurd, just like Electrics Bio Capacitor and Natures Metabolism, they haven't touched those abilities despite feedback so it's beating your head against a wall.

The consistency of the 'rules' of healing is non existent as all power sets have something that disobeys the standard of healing criteria they set out, my question is if this is the case why are we still trying to 'revamp' healing this way?

If the dominance thing is still an issue, then you're right and that needs to be changed and the power cost increase reduced back, why are DPS powers getting a 400 power cost option when we're stuck with core abilities that take half our power bar?

I agreed with you that at the moment celestial is in better shape than it was, but that's because people cried, begged, and pleaded for changes providing numbers to justify it. Doing all that while getting little to no response and not seeing changes until months later, so I get the feeling your talking about. Celestial just now got some healing improvements after so many months of feeling unheard so I can see why you were hesitant to post. A lot of people have been feeling that way through the revamp especially lately, its not just you and I. I was already well aware we probably wouldn't get the cooldown reduction for admonish but one can dream and pray lol.

I truly don't have any issues with CS and AcB in their current form for 1.7. The bursts and HoTs were brought up quite nicely with this round of testing so I'll keep my mouth shut on that for the most part, but the dominance affect is still a major issue. Divine Light actually has a comparable to live HoT (maybe higher) when spec for full dominance with a much higher burst than when you spec for resto. Its still a very noticeable difference and quite obvious that it's a dom based heal. I don't know why this seems to be a repeat issue if its not intended either. I will say if its intended then dominance needs to put in healer gear (roughly 1500 for current end game gear), or completely remove dominance from the healing equation (which probably won't happen). I think doing one of those would help the other healer powers as well not just celestial. I do know sorc and nature are a hot mess too, but advocating for them in the celestial thread doesn't seem like the best way to go about it.

I can't speak for the other healer powers as I haven't tested them personally or checked into their healer power costs that much, but it seems/feels like celestial healing has the highest power cost of them all due to the combos. Correct me if I'm wrong on that? I think most of these power costs are outrageous for healing which adds its own handicap. If the dominance issue doesn't get resolved properly then image the up in power cost to replace DL with GL since GL is actually alot better (in a resto spec) but the power cost on that is roughly 11k+.

Overall I think healing should be looked at as a whole vs individual powersets at this point, mostly with the formula which is where I think most of the powersets issues derive from.

Celestial does have the highest power costs mainly because it has the lowest cooldowns among all other power sets, nature is a close second because it has weak healing abilities so you have to use multiple abilities regularly to get results.

The healing issues with Sorcery and Nature are beyond the formula, even if they change the healing values on some abilities they don't flow as well as Electric or Celestial do making them more difficult and not enjoyable to play, I wont get into this more because wrong thread but you can see concerns in my other posts.

Healing feedback:

Divine light, im sorry, Virtuous light* needs a slight buff. The burst it has is practically on par with renew which has a lower power cost and cooldown.

Here's a video for you guys to take a closer look at healing:

I healed JFA last night. I also thought about it and I don't ever give you credit where its due, I usually just give you my complaints. That being said I'm going to give you credit where its due first before I go into my complaints lol. You did a great job bringing CS, AcB, and Renew up to par where they needed to be compared to when Celestial first hit revamp testing.

Now on to my complaints. I have two main complaints one is power and the other is Divine Light (Virtuous Light) under-performing. When I healed this raid power was a major issue for me. I used my soda, supply, and accomplice the moment they were available since I was starved for power for the most part. I had the power mastery to see if that improved my power management and allow the use of other weapons besides HB or even having WM be a viable choice.

My base stats were:
Power: 45,150
Restoration: 15,186
Dominance:115
I was modded for restoration in yellow, resto/might in red, and resto/health in blue. SP spec was all crit heals, resto, and any left over put into dominance. Gen mods were resto, power, and might.

• When it comes to power I know celestial has a high cost and I'd like to see something done to make it a little more power friendly but NOT at the expense of heals. I know there are numerous problems with the controller role atm (mentioned in my atomic feedback as well) and that could be half of the problem with celestial healing power efficiency. Please check into the controller functionality to resolve some of this issue. I don't mind using a soda or supply to help out the trolls and I know how to manage my power because I have a clear understanding of my HoTs and how they work so I don't "over heal", but when I have to use all of my resources instantly when they come off of cooldown there's a problem somewhere.
• Divine Light (Virtuous Light) is still massively under performing especially considering its had its 2nd power increase since Celestial hit test. I don't feel the heal output justifies the power cost at all. This could be because its still being heavily influenced by dominance (really wish I knew if that was intended or not). *hint hint wink wink* I'm asking that you look into this one and adjust it as necessary to perform on par with CS and AcB.

Overall healing with Celestial isn't near as bad as it was a few months ago, some minor tweaks on it and its ready for live. The main things are just the power efficiency which I think stems mostly from controller role, and the heal not justifying the power cost on Divine Light (Virtuous Light). Your goal has been to give players options on what they put in their loadouts, well making DL such a high power cost yet still under-performing your forcing me into taking it out of my loadout and replacing it with something else which at this point would have to be GL which has a much higher power cost. That would inevitably hurt the power efficiency even more than it already is since its a high power cost as well, but at least the heal off GL justifies the power cost.

I also have to use my shields and CG wayyyyyyy more than I like to considering I prefer using those in case of emergency. I found myself having to use them A LOT and it sucked tbh. The main reason I feel I had to use them so much was HP dropping entirely too low and not having the power to get people back up with bursts/HoTs. I don't think I would have to use them as much if DL was on par with heals and if the power wasn't an issue.

Feelings Rant Incoming
When celestial first hit test it was sooooo bad that I had no desire to test it in content anymore after the first few runs so I focused on the numbers and math of it all. With this latest update I checked all the numbers first, and was so hesitant to go into content because I didn't want that sad yucky feeling again that it gave me before. I can say after sucking it up and going back into to content to see how it actually feels helped a lot more this time. It didn't leave that sad yucky rage quit kinda feeling this time which was a mass improvement for me lol. Its almost where it needs to be, so tighten up those loose ends and we'll be good to go! No one judge me on my feelings lol. I'm a girl so expect nothing less from me when it comes to my favorite power/role lol.

Also going to leave you a link for the run I healed last night provided by Fatal Star ( ty again Fatal )