Aggravating Guide about Aggro

There is no in-game messaging about aggro, hate, taunts, or how they work. I've gathered a lot of what has been researched about the subject, as it applies to DCUO. This guide can be reached quickly via https://tinyurl.com/DCUOAggro

Section list:

• Quick Definitions
• The Hate Table (aka The Hate List)
• Aggro
• Tanks
• Taunting
• Single Taunts
• Timing
• Scripted Attacks
• Dominance
• When they say ___ what they really mean is ___
• Tagging
• Supply Drops
• Pets that tank
• Control Effects and Immunities
• Untargetable NPCs
• Invisible NPCs

Quick Definitions (not to be used in lieu of reading)
Hate table = list of players that have generated threat to an enemy
Aggro = overriding the natural order of the hate table
Taunt = ability used in tank stance that establishes or refreshes Aggro
Single Taunt = taunt that only establishes aggro for one target, also a taunt that takes precedence
Aggro Timer = Full length of a taunt (12 seconds)
Aggro Window = Time between being able to renew a taunt, and when it expires (8-12 seconds)
Scripted attack = Attack pattern which follows a script instead of hate/aggro
NPC = Non-Player Character (enemies and cross-faction frenemies)
Dominance = statistic that has nothing to do with Aggro

The Hate Table (aka The Hate List)
Each NPC has a hate table. The hate table is a list of players that displays a threat to the NPC. The initial position on the hate table relates to the type and amount of threat. Heals generate threat, as do powers, and weapons. Who hits first, and the the amount of damage per second also play into the position on the hate table.

The hate table refreshes every 20 seconds. If you have a room full of damagers in damage role, the person who hits first will be targeted for 20 seconds, then the person with the highest damage-per-second during that 20 seconds will be targeted, if they are still generating hate at that point.

Every enemy has a hate table. This is a list of people that the NPC will pay attention to while not doing something scripted. That list is in a particular order. The natural order is for the most damaging player to be on top. If a controller hit the enemy with a debuff before anyone else touched it, or a healer threw out their HoT within range before anyone touched it, then they will be on top instead. Or, in a duo with two damagers, the dps that hit them first will be on top for the first 20 seconds, at which point the table will refresh and the one with the most damage will be on top. A tank overrides the natural order with a taunt. Simply by being in tank stance, and throwing a taunting power (you don't actually have to hit the NPC with the damage in order to taunt it, even buffs taunt*), that taunting power overrides the order of the hate table (that had the tank somewhere on the bottom). The tank taunt will artificially place the tank at the top of the hate table for 12 seconds.

Every enemy has a hate list. Heals generate hate. Using powers and weapons generate hate. To a certain extent proximity generates hate (eg: starting a fight simply by getting too close). For the most part, the person who hits first, and who's doing the most damage gets put on the top of the hate list. Every 20 seconds, an enemy refreshes the list.

Aggro
Considering it's the topic of the guide, this section is rather short. That's intended. Clearly and concisely, this is what aggro is, along with an example with and without a tank.

Aggro is a word misused quite frequently, even among seasoned tanks who know they're using it incorrectly.
Aggro means overriding the natural order of the hate table.

Aggro is overriding the order of the hate table in order to put yourself on top of the list. In a duo, you have two Gadgets players using Distract. This detaunts, and puts the player on the bottom of the hate list. Every time they use the detaunt, they are giving the other partner Aggro. If a tank uses a taunt in tank stance, it automatically puts them above non-tanks on the hate list ... giving themselves Aggro.

Tanks
Tanks have a specific relationship with Aggro.

Tanks are somewhere near the bottom of the hate list but, by virtue of being in tank stance (irrespective of any stat), when they throw a taunt, they artificially put themselves on the top of the list until it refreshes. That artificial placement to the top of the hate list is "gaining aggro." Their job is to maintain aggro, by staying on the top of the list. Since aggro is on a timer, it means they should generally be throwing a taunt every 8 seconds or so.

A weapon will get a tank on the hate list, but only a taunt will gain aggro. A taunt is a power. Any ability, including buffs*. The taunt only occurs when the power is cast ... to dispel another myth: a power that does damage over time is *not* continually taunting.

A tank can still have aggro, even if the NPC does not physically return to them. These particular bosses will frequently attack the tank from range for a while after their scripted attack. The tank still has their attention. They do not necessarily return to the tank's proximity. In Blackest Night, the tank should be focusing on countering Grundy while keeping the Martian taunted. He will rarely leave if he is continuously countered, and he will be taunted when the tank taunts MM unless they're using the single taunt.

I know I'll have an NPC taunted, aggro is fine, but they're taking a long time to return after a scripted attack, or they're just being stubborn and will attack me at range. I'll range them with my weapon, and they counter me, which brings them back. I don't know if this is part of the AI, or if I'm imagining it, but it seems to work with excessive frequency. If you can do it safely (particularly when they counter you) then it doesn't hurt.

Taunting
Again, taunting is when a tank casts a power that not only puts them on the hate list, it also establishes aggro. An NPC does not have to be hit by a power in order to be taunted by it.

Tanks are only able to taunt 8 NPCs at a time with a single cast of an ability. If you have more than 8 NPCs, you may want to keep taunting. But, it is possible that this is a per-tank cap:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...l-feedback-thread.236197/page-13#post-3101436

Self-encasements (eg: Hibernate, Envelop, Clown Box) not only detaunt, they remove you from the hate table altogether. At least, that's how it was explained, when people questioned whether using a self-encasement to avoid teleportation mechanics was an exploit.

The converse is also true for encased NPCs. NPCs in true encasements (the kind that can be exploded) can not be taunted while encased. Their hate table is locked, though the aggro timer is still ticking.

"Taunt effects on Tank role powers should now consistently use a 15m radius either around your target or yourself depending on the activated power ... When in Tank role, Supercharge abilities will now cause a taunt effect around your target or yourself depending on the supercharge ability used." Both of those are from GU5 (Thank you, Owl). Later, taunts were updated to always include 15m around yourself. Ranged taunts still include the target (and, if not a Single Taunt, an area around the target as well):



Single Taunts
A "single taunt" that says it overrides other taunts, is used to separate one enemy from a group of enemies (eg: stone, frost snipe, mesmerizing lasso, fireball). This is useful if you only want to get the attention of one enemy in a group enemies, so you don't take on too much at once, or need to just pull one thing off to the side without getting the attention of anything else. But, it's main use is when you have two or more tanks. That way, each tank can get the attention of an individual enemy (like having the boss focus on one tank, while the adds focus on another tank). The last person to use the single taunt goes to the top of the hate list. I've been trying to tell if it still has to wait for the refresh before the enemy acknowledges it, but I haven't been able to tell.

An exception to the "single" rule is starting encounters. If you use a single taunt to start a boss fight, the other boss isn't simply going to ignore that you started the fight. This is particularly noticeable in two-boss arenas like DWF. So, while it may work to pick a fight with just one NPC in the open world, as soon as those doors close for a fight, game on.

Much like the "dom affects aggro" myth (see the Dominance section), people have been spreading the rumor that, even with one tank, these taunts are somehow stronger than other taunts. That's silly. There's no such thing as a partial taunt. If you're at the top of the hate list, you're at the top, you can't be "more" at the top! Even though the tooltip uses the word "stronger," it's just referring to being able to override all other things affecting hate including other tank taunts.

Timing
20 Seconds ... time for the hate table to refresh
12 Seconds ... the Aggro Timer; how long a taunt lasts.
8 Seconds ... time until a taunt can be refreshed (restarts Aggro Timer)
8-12 Seconds ... the Aggro Window; time when a taunt has to be refreshed in order to maintain Aggro

Scripted Attacks
(see also: https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/guide-to-npcs.232868/#post-3009244)
Scripted attacks, are where the enemy does what they're gonna do, despite who is on the top of the hate list. The aggro timer is still going. So long as the tank keeps taunting on time, aggro is being maintained. The tank did not "lose aggro" just because the enemy isn't on top of them. They are also not wasting power by keeping up the taunt schedule or their damage mitigation (however, it is wasting power trying to pull or otherwise control something that is immune). When the scripted attack is over, the enemy will return to the person at the top of the hate list. Very, very few scripted attacks also completely reset the hate list. In fact, the only one I know of, is the A.R.C. in the Inner Sanctum ... who will reset the list before his shield goes up, so the tank needs to taunt the split-second before the shield goes up in order to be the one he attacks while his shield is up. I believe the reason for this is not that the table is actually resetting, but that his shield works like an encasement (see the taunts section). For the most part, scripted attacks also are special attacks, and get the skull chevron above the enemy's head, but not always.


Dominance

Dominance factors into survivability as a tank, the strength of shields if you're not a healer, base healing, and - what it was meant for - the ability to perform most control effects.

Dominance used to have nothing to do with a control effect's duration. That changed (again, credit to Owl for helping me find the official reference):
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dc...n-pc-test-game-update-31.175802/#post-2076469

When they say ___ what they really mean is ___
When they say "pulling aggro" ... what they really mean is:

• being the subject of a scripted attack, or
• taunting, or
• overriding a taunt with a single taunt

When they say "dumping aggro," or "breaking aggro" ... what they really mean is:

• a detaunt (eg: grandeur, distract, detaunting consumable), or
• the hate table resetting or refreshing, or
• tank missing the Aggro Timer window

When they say "generating more aggro" ... what they really mean is:

• taunts, or
• refreshes aggro, or
• overrides a taunt (ie: with a single taunt), or
• the tank missed the Aggro Window and the hate table bumped someone's threat over the tank

Unfortunately, they often don't know that this is what they mean, and accuse the game of being broken, the tank of not doing their job, or even that they are somehow just an attack magnet.


Tagging
Tagging is a controversial usage of the hate table. At the beginning of an encounter, someone (usually a controller) is designated to hit the boss with a superpower after the tank does, but before anyone else does. They then move to a position well out of range of the boss (often still close enough to teammates to provide support, though). This secures their position as the first person on the hate table after the tank(s). My understanding is that, for some reason, even though the hate table refreshes after 20 seconds, somehow they retain that position on the list. What this does is makes it so many scripted attacks, where the script is "go after the person who's after the tanks on the list," will confuse the boss into not moving, or moving very little. It's controversial, because it clearly circumvents the intent of the scripted attack. But, to go so far as to say it circumvents mechanics, is a non-sequitur since you're using mechanics to circumvent mechanics. Personally, I think that argument is flawed, since technically this scenario should only be viable for the first 20 seconds of a fight.

Supply Drops
It is quite common to believe that supply drops, at this point in time, generate threat. I think the official stance of DGC is that they are as benign as soders, and that nothing is broken. I do not want to spread falsehoods, but the anecdotal evidence is there. It sounds contrary to everything we've said, but dropping a supply drop can seem like a homing beacon for the enemy. Trying to fit what we see into what we know about the hate table, it would appear that supply drops are either being read as healers, or generate the threat that a healer does when players step in it. The important thing, is not whether or not this is true. The important thing is that we play with the awareness that something may be off about hate and supply drops.

Pets that tank
A fully boosted sidekick/accomplice will tank, complete with pulls, shields, and taunts. Other non-tank pets will also take on tank duties, such as Guardian. These pets simply taunt. At one point, their taunts were the same as tank taunts. Now, any tank taunt should take precedence, the same as a single taunt takes precedence. So, the hate table should have the players, then tank-type pets artificially above them (aggro), then the tanks on top, having established aggro themselves.

Some player pets, like Crystal, will use control effects. Be aware that, in doing so, they're giving out control effect immunities, which may affect the tank's ability to pull and juggle.

Control Effects and Immunities
Unfortunately, if an NPC isn't right on top of tank, players mistake that for not having their attention, and tanks get accused of not having aggro. So, it's fitting to mention how Control Effects and Immunities work. It speaks to when a tank can and can not pull or juggle them.

Flashing means that an NPC is immune to control effects. They can not be pulled, stunned, knocked up, knocked back, rooted, encased, panicked, ghosted/dogged, or otherwise controlled in any way. A tank will try to pull them, and they will get the message "immune."

I don't want to go into it too heavily because the focus of this guide is aggro, but each NPC has a "Breakout Profile," that determines how often and whether or not an NPC will be susceptible to control effects. NPCs have ranks: Bosses, Subbosses, Level/Match, and Minion/Chump. This is a spectrum; generally, minions are more susceptible to control effects than bosses; rank factors heavily into determining the Breakout Profile. If a tank tries to pull something that can't be pulled because of their Profile, because they are blocking, or because the tank doesn't have enough Dominance to control them, they will see the message "resist."

In addition to immunity, and resistance, there are also some control effects that make tank pulls impossible. True encasements (the kind that can be exploded) can not be pulled. Some rooted stuns (eg: quantum/chronometric emitter) can not be pulled.

So, how do opponents get immunities? Based on the Breakout Profile mentioned earlier. If the criteria of the Profile is met, they will become immune. Except when an NPC has been scripted to do differently, the following is generally in the Profile:

• Breakout trinket. Same as we have breakout trinkets (we mostly use in PvP, but they are available in PvE), if you watch closely, NPCs will use a breakout trinket sometimes, too.
• Having been subject to two power control effects will make them immune to power control effects (but not weapon control effects)
• Having been subject to two weapon control effects will make them immune to weapon control effects (but not power control effects)

This is a really, really cursory glimpse at how these things work. For a full treatment of the topic:
https://forums.daybreakgames.com/dcuo/index.php?threads/guide-to-npcs.232868/

If you think about it, once the tank pulls, and the controller debuffs (which also controls), most NPCs start off immune almost immediately. If the controller uses more than one control effect (perhaps the first time they hit strays they didn't get all of them, so they throw it twice), the tank can forget about pulling until it wears off, and can only keep up a taunt on the enemy.

Untargetable NPCs
Placeholder specifically for the Knight in The One Who Waits Alert, but I need to learn more about the mechanic first. Might also apply to the NPC in the Silent School where you have to break the shield first, but that probably is more like the ARC mechanic since you are able to target them at some point.

Invisible NPCs
This part is about the laggy connections and slow platforms out there. If an NPC is not visible, and can not be targeted, then you can not taunt it. But, a player can still generate threat, and can still be placed on the hate table (from things like heals, blind weapon attacks, some AoEs, and certain pets).

So, for the most part, it only applies to aggro, but the same applies to de-taunts. If you use a detaunt consumable or power, it will only detaunt the NPCs which have loaded-in.

Be aware if your tank is waiting for things to load in, before you charge in yourself. Sometimes these tanks might be throwing powers for damage mitigation purposes, and may not yet actually have the attention of the NPCs. As always, let the tank start the fight, which often includes opening doors and talking to NPCs.

Love it !

/bow
Thank you.

TY.....

All powers when used in tank stance, even those not specifically listed as a taunt, will generate more aggro than non-tanks.

This needs to be put on the dcuo FB page and on the home page with neon lights around it.... It's hilarious when people argue with me over this...

Was this in response to a particular statement I made? It sounds like it's in response to my comment about buffs.

Excellent Thanks!

When you did your first post it sounded like you were saying only taunts are the only powers that can be used to generate more aggro. It was probably just the way it was worded, but I just wanted to make sure it was clear.

This is an INCREDIBLE potential example of the type of detailed info that SHOULD be in game for each and every player of this game to have access to!!
When they (we) hit level 10 and get the option to start playing a role this (and one for each role) should ABSOLUTELY WITHOUT QUESTION be there for them to see.
We as a community have asked for things like this, more detailed information about exactly what to do and HOW to play this game. The ship tells you about what? Breakouts. Block Breaks. Blocking. Lunging. Maybe a few other things. Things that 99.99% of people would figure out within an hour or so of playing. But the big stuff, the important stuff is left up to threads like these and the community to pass along to others. It's a shame.
Very awesome. Very cool.
Now quit being lazy and give us one for every role and every power!! LOL.

Good to see that there are actually other people out there that understands how the game functions. No matter how much I try to explain it to some people they still just don't understand. Plenty of experienced players I have run with still don't understand the premise of a hate table. It's a term many aren't used to on this MMO and they don't realise the role it plays when I try explaining it to them. Hope people read the thread and realise that there's actually such a thing in the game.

Saw you were thinking about what else to add to the guide, you might want to make a list of tank (and even other roles?) powers that actually detaunt, maybe have a little explanation on feints (not really about aggro but it's something plenty of people still don't understand or even know exists within the way the AI functions their attacks). You could also talk about the tagging term and explain powers/pets that can implement themselves onto the hate table and gain aggro (such as Guardian and Holographic Decoy).

OMG you got the hate table right!


So sick of people saying healers are automatically on top when there's no tank.

Yep haha.

"Whyyyyyyy am I being attacked?? There's a healer in the group!"

It does sound like we have a disagreement as to either what a taunt is, or what taunts, even thought I think we're on the same page as to what a taunt does.

My understanding is that most all powers can refresh the aggro timer. To me, that's all a taunt is, is something that establishes or re-establishes that timer. Some skill tree powers or iconic powers might not, though they probably should. I've been told that buffs also taunt as of the change to make all things not single-taunt a PBAoE 15m taunt, though they did not previously.

As far as buffs are concerned, I don't trust them to taunt. My experience is that, low on power, just using Severe Punishment and Vindictive, NPCs will stray. Same with a low-CR toon that had to stay in block to survive ... Fortify Golem was not enough to keep NPCs focused. Ice, I can't take for out-and-about testing, because I'd essentially have to be tanking without shields. Atomic, I'm waiting for a sale before I get an armory for that character, so I haven't tanked with it yet. I suppose I'd have the same problem as ice, and would have to set up a controlled environment, else risk losing my mitigation.

It's due to scripted attacks. Black Hand's cloud and the first boss of BD (Henshaw?) both go for the healer on their scripted attacks most of the time. Similarly, some fights .... Grundy/Manhunter, Nekron/Black Hand, have a waiting period before damagers are supposed to participate, so the hate list pretty much consists of the healer, the controller and the tank. Since the controller has no need to debuff at that point (unless it's a damage debuff but, really, how many of those do you see), usually the healer is the first to throw a power, so they're on deck for at least the first scripted attack. Same thing when the healer and controller are the only ones in range of both tanks when separating bosses. I learned the hard way in Nexus way back when, not to get my pheromones ready before the tank went in ... as soon as the tank started it, Ninja Batman killed me every time.

So, if the scripted attack says "go for the healer" or the healer is the second person on the hate list after the tank, it can feel like they're "automatically on top" even though it's not true.

It might help just to put what you define as a taunt towards the beginning, as a newer player could potentially think that you are only referring to powers that state specifically that they taunt.

Many people refer to any aggro generating power as a taunt like you do, but for the purpose of a guide, making that clearer to people not as familiar with they way some players refer to things could be beneficial in clearing up potential confusion.

There's nothing wrong with using the term taunt in that manner, just pointing out the potential confusion it could cause.

Updated with lots of little edits. Added a Quick definition section. Added sections for tagging, supply drops, explanation of control effects and immunities. If it becomes popular enough, maybe I'll take the time to take out the repetition and make it sound less cut-and-paste.