Will NC guns ever be good as TC guns

Not one of them has a default weapon as their top weapon, it has nothing to do with it. Players like them have all the weapons unlocked way before they get 5000 kills with the SAW. Why would they continue using it? You're saying that it's because they think it's iconic, even if it sucks. Have you asked them? I'm pretty sure that you use the weapons that you think are best, and I trust that the skilled players use what they think is best. Or are you using that Gauss Compact S with a forward grip, because you think it sounds/looks nice?

What you've been saying in this thread so far is: "The top NC players are using this gimped weapon because they think that it is iconic, even if it sucks. Trust me when I say that it is the worst LMG in the game. Even if I may be an average player with below average accuracy, I know that all amounts of horizontal recoil can be countered equally well by bursting, so the CARV is actually as good as the SAW at long range. Even if most players with good aim will tell you that vertical recoil can be countered fully, it is actually not like that."

You're delusional if you think that you know which weapons are good and the top players don't.

The SAW is a good weapon. It is not, however, good for everyone, as I've already said. It's very hard to handle for many players, maybe even most of them. For many others and especially for players who can counter vertical recoil effectively, it's a great weapon. It has a steep learning curve, but is ultimately the best LMG at long range. It isn't trash. I will say that the EM6 should be the starting NC HA weapon, but I would still use the SAW.

Nice quotes- do you know what quotes mean?

Show me where I say what you quote and I'll eat my hat.

Notice how I say "many people" (BTW, that is how you use quotes) want to use the iconic weapons- not necessarily these specific people.

Then you say "Not one of them has a default weapon as their top weapon" but you asked previously why they were most used. It sounds like you either already had an answer for your question in mind. So, you tell me if the best players know best what weapons are best and are still using a weapon that is not even the top weapon for them yet you "trust that the skilled players use what they think is best" why they would not only use the top weapon?

My response was just to say hey well you start with the SAW by default so it makes sense that you would get some hours on this thing before other options. I add that the SAW is iconic NC and it would seem to make sense that people who choose NC would be interested in spending time with the iconic NC weapons. Now, what I did not add, that may also be a factor, is that they are at a point where they just want to make sure to Aurax medal everything.

We can have a discussion without personal attacks so I really see no ******* reason why you have to include all your personal attack nonsense. You want to read into what I post so you can mock me then whatever, I'll make sure to avoid having discussions with you in the future.

Just for the record the below is what I have put into this thread:

"Well, both the Carv and Orion have higher theoretical DPS than the SAW in the first place- so, yeah, makes sense you get more DPS out of those than the SAW."

"If you have equal accuracy with different weapons then you should prefer the weapons with greater DPS."

"Why is it that forward grip now only reduces horizontal recoil? Doesn't this change effectively mean that this attachment is more or less useless on NC 200 damage per shot weapons?"

"I think you may be placing too much importance on 1 round having 0 COF if you are standing still and ADS.
Movement and FOV are among the most important factors and you loose both for getting 1 accurate shot. Meanwhile, TR/VS weapons are much better for shooting while moving and shooting from the hip.
Moreover, forward grip can reduce horizontal recoil and (now) does nothing for vertical recoil- basically meaning that 1 important 100 cert attachment is effectively useless for NC 200 damage weapons. Unfortunately, the other stats these weapons have make them relatively bad at CQC and hipfire- even with the laser sight the ACX-11 is not competitive in CQC or while hipfiring and the same can be said of the SAW."

"You make some good points here and I never said you said the SAW was godlike.
Though bad ADS COF on the move (and bad COF in general) is not a particularity of ONLY the SAW- let me introduce you to the ACX-11 (I mentioned this in my earlier post).
Also, you do these calculations comparing the Guass Rifle and the Cycler (both ARs) without mentioning that they reach this 0.5 bloom at different speeds because of ROF. Guass Rifle 600 RPM wheras Cycler 845 RPM so the Cycler fires almost 30% faster, would reach this 0.5 30% faster and therefore you can pack more bursts into a shorter period of time. Cycler sports 27% greater damage per second than the Guass Rifle.
I'm not trying to say that NC gear is junk but I do think the game is oriented more towards CQC given the damage dropoff and other mechanics. I also think the developers place too many drawbacks on high damage per shot (low DPS, low mag ammo, low bullet velocity, bad hipfire COF, strong vertical recoil, etc.) when the only drawback to high ROF appears to be horizontal recoil (something you can mitigate with a forward grip)"

"Yeah, I know- but this does not change that the forward grip is basically useless on NC 200 damage weapons and with the COF values as they are so is the laser sight (what other attachments can you put in that slot?). So, basically, that means that any NC 200 damage weapon does not really benefit from 2 important attachments that benefit much more the VS stereotypic and TR stereotypic weapons.
I've been playing TR with the default Trac-5 and have a solid performance without even yet having unlocked the forward grip or compensator. It spits out bullets fast enough and has enough in the mag that it really makes up for the inherent inaccuracy at the longer ranges plus it starts with a nice enough hipfire COF that it works really well in CQC. It will be interesting to see how it performs once I have the forward grip.
Meanwhile, my experience with the ACX-11 is that it is not competitive in CQC regardless of what attachments you use and at long range it suffers from one of the slowest projectile speeds, slowest ROF, strongest vertical recoil and lowest mag capacity- making it difficult to place shots even while bursting (thus further lowering the ROF) and making every shot vital. At long distance I watch people, intentionally and unintentionally, just pass through the gaps between the shots. About the only range where the ACX-11 is competitive (read: still no advantage but at least no disadvantage) is the difficult to perceive, achieve, and maintain mid-range distance. Often times, if you are exchanging fire (taking some hits) then the fight is simply lost at just about any range.
So people will often say "yeah, NC has a steep learning curve but a high skill ceiling". This is false, NC may have a steep learning curve but since the NC 200 damage weapons also have low DPS compared to other options then the damage ceiling (i.e. skill ceiling) is actually the often the lowest. Too bad I did not do a little more digging when I decided to main NC- I just took it for granted that the faction with the (widely acknowledged) steeper learning curve would also be the one with the highest skill ceiling (again, as was at the time widely, though unfortunately erroneously, believed)."

"Which Cycler? Perhaps I was looking at an outdated Excel sheet but there was an AR Cycler that was listed as 143 damage and 845 RPM."

I'm not quoting you, it's meant as a condensed mock quote of Divinorium. You should read first, before reacting.

Edit: No, I should read first, stupid of me for not realizing my mistake. I meant to direct that mock quote to Div, but for the record, that is meant for him.

Oh, I see my mistake for taking a reply to my post as being direct at my post- you're right that is totally my mistake.

Yes, it's my mistake for forgetting to direct that part to Div, I'm sorry if that caused any confusion.

On my TR toons I find myself using the NS-11C (and NS-11A) more often than other TR weapons, at mid range the NS-11 handles better than most TR weapons aside the T5 AMC, not a big fan of any of the other TR weapons until up close (TAR, Jaguar, MCG, T16). I'd keep using the SABR-13, but I always end up getting screwed while using it, it's good at long range but when you get jumped by an infil or HA, it just plain blows.

However on NC and VS I don't need the NS-11 variants.

What do you tend to use as NC/VS?

That's where i differ from you.

IMO what are you doing is putting a band-aid in the problem. You have a weapon "not so bad in CqC and not so bad in ranged engagement"

My aproach is: make a CqC weapon stronger in CqC and let my player skill handle the distance.(you know avoid long range engagement)

Again, that's my taste.

My usage? Not engaging where i have obvious disadvantage, read open terrain without cover, not because i fear the weapon of the enemy, just because engaging at range in general means you aren't engaging one player alone you are engagin 4~5 that will fire at you.

I try to move cover from cover, normally i'm spearhead of the troops, and secure the position/cover until my team comes so i can advance again. I don't go in Run-and-gun i play more in a "chess style" where i try to win advantage before engagement. That's, probably, why even with me having worst accuracy i better, i hate this word, K/D then you XD. Anyway i think it's different approachs to the same game.

And what you said about fire in the chest and let the recoil do the headshot, that's old. I mean i've played CS since the very beginning and that is/was common knowledge.