Why does DBG allows NC's terrible low win rate?

I agree with most of that. The tankbuster is pretty irrelevant now, so that's off the table, but back in the day goo dvanguard drivers were able to survive tankbuster runs much easier than the other two tanks. And the shield still saves you from Hornets. ESF have just enough time to fire 2 salvos and get a kill while moving at a decent pace. Hitting the shield makes the ESF go in to hover and stick around for more shots, often not to the rear, so you're at a minimum doubling the TTK of Hornets with that extra reload and that's longer than most ESF can hang around for. The shield was an "I win" button before this nerf, which wasn't that great for balance. I do agree that the Vanguard is in a bad state, I just don't think it's as bad as many make it out to be. Keeping the same health pool with more armor might put it right where it needs to be.

Given that nothing survived the Tankbuster in the first place, doesn't say much.
Given it's a MBT, that if it triggers the shield early, or if the opponent waited, left & returned, in the grand seconds it lasted..
The Tank's entire ability to survive went out the window, until it recharged.
If surviving a face-tanking contest, while being the Endurance Tank, using a Shield that actually makes it capable of that title is an "I-win" button...
What do you call the prowler expecting to out-preform the tank designed for surviving?
Does a Vanguard expect to win the DPS contest over a prowler? No.
But seemingly a lot of Prowler drivers are allowed to expect a win in an endurance contest... aka face-tanking blows.

Most people call someone who brings a shotgun to a Sniper duel at long range, a total moron.
What do you think someone trying to out-endure the tank built for it, with the artillery tank is?
-- Before CAI:
Prowler firepower could actually eat through the old shield before it even expired, when it's not solo'ing the tank built to endure..
As well, every single situation where a Vanguard engages an MBT, the shield is the sole factor.
Without it, it dies if it doesn't get the first shot.
The Tank built to endure, and is defensive in nature, has to hit first.

--- After CAI, not sure about that dynamic at all.
But Harassers can't give a damn about the Shield.
The extra repair time, also means Vanguards stay burning & damaged for longer.
The Shield is reliant on health since it's a resistance booster - and this means it needs to be timed before the first shot even lands.

However, beyond that.
Why exactly is the Liberator's Pilot weapon meant to massacre MBTs by itself?
For a Gunship, the Pilot had one of the most lethal weapons, enabling a Solo pilot to kill 2-man vehicles easily.
You'd think the Belly-Gun, would be what does it... not the Pilot's gun, and then the Belly-gun.. making it more reliant on team-work, But then again, this is aircraft.
This is only matched by another Aircraft, being flown Solo to ruin.
Or a **** ton of ground threats managing to focus fire the Lib with tank cannons...
A Gunship, that solo'ed from the Pilot's chair alone, able to one-clip tanks - whom can't outrun it either.
(Mind you, the Lib's tail gun is the saddest weapon set in general... other aircraft AA usually works, Lib's nope...)
-- I don't know if the Tank Buster was over-nerfed, but I do know solo Libbers with the old one were ********.



NC's tank isn't exactly all that dangerous.
As well, NC had the most armored tank previously; And it still relied on that old shield for durability.
That should say a lot about it.

Armor itself, seems to pale in comparison to the Prowler's DPS capability at range, Harassers, Aircraft....
So, given how ineffective having the highest armor value was, I doubt it paired with having the longest repair times would help.
As well, if it does work:
Can you imagine the stacking effect of the Shield + Armor resistances?
I doubt it would take long, to be nerfed, if it actually was a more of a threat.
(Refer to Phoenix )

If only those newbie players flocking to NC knew that VS weapons are pants on head easiest to shoot in the game. That's why all those "pro" players are still playing VS, and why VS dominates much of the time on my server. But SOE, errr, DBG refuses to fix this faction after all these years. I came back and lo and behold their still dominating this server. It's ridiculous.

I'm not a pro tanker, I've never pretended to be one. What I can say as an air player is that the Vanguard was hands down the hardest tank to jump, with either the Tankbuster or Hornets, without question. I honestly think the Tankbuster was perfect where it was at. The lib's noise plus the necessity to hug the ground and ask for tank rounds was its balancing factor. After hearing more input from tank mains, I think that increasing the noise of the Lib might have dailed in the tank/tankbuster relationship perfectly. Anything less than that old tankbuster is pointless, as there's zero reason to sacrifice your belly gun dps to use it. It was even considered useless till its mag was upgraded before, and now it's at half dps.... That whole change was a mistake.

Back to tanks, I don't drive them often, but I gun for them any time I get a chance, and it's rare that lockdown has a chance to shine outside of pointless standoffs or hive destruction. Out of all of them I'd take the Magrider, based on its versatility and able to scale any terrain. But in a 1v1 I'd still take the Vanguard. It completely relies on its shield, but that shield makes up for getting shot first. All that said, I still support moving its dps up a little and giving its armor bonus back, as 1v1 tank duels are a rarity in this game. Either that or do something interesting like let the shield be 100% up but double the reload time when it's activated, which would also promote people running 2/2. I'd like something like that for the Prowler as well. Let the tank activate a less powerful lockdown any time at the cost of half speed. Those changes would make up for not being able to float up and over mountains.

If the higher up imcreases the burning states threshold, should the other tanks have increased and the vanguard instead given lower hp and high armor? This would make them more easily reppable and makes the burning state more prevalent fornthenother tanks,possibly lowering maneuverability on both?? This may require damage tweaks? Like, giving the vanguard 3k hp and 10% more resists to all sides ??

Actual question

Noobs pick NC b/c rock 'n roll rebel.

TR lore is described ingame as having a stick up their butt, and VS lore is described as being insane.

Compounding this issue is that NC's default infantry weapons are the least noob-friendly of all of the starter weapons. VS starters have no drop, and TR starters fill the sky with bullets. But NC starters are higher skill-ceiling weapons that demand proper handling in order to exceed their rivals.

I would definitely rank the prowler as the best tank in my books, it's even more powerful in groups, and it is the best tank for destroying PMBs

I went back to my TR toon yesterday in hopes of getting some of the Halloween directives done, and WOW Vanu just completely dominates Emerald. NC started some alerts and just got smoked...

I want to play TR because I miss the Prowler, I miss the extra ammo... ... but why play TR when I know VS will win the alerts?

I have been doing win statistics for the 3 factions over the past couple of months and this is ONLY on Emerald. NC does underperform across the board, but this Vanu absolute domination is really only happening on Emerald.

So why play a faction you know won't win?

Whatever the underperforming or outnumbered faction is on your server, they need some incentive to stay and fight against overwhelming odds. Please make that incentive better!!!

For the vanguard, instead of additional health HP, that HP should have been a regenerating shield like infantry have, that would work the best with the slow firing cannon being used in peak-a-boo tactics. This would make the Vanguard more durable and solve the slower repair issue. Then come up with a new utility for Vanguard.

You'd balance this by tweaking shield recharge delay and recovery rate.

Maybe the new utility becomes an instant shield recharge on a cooldown, like fire suppression for the shield.

The Lib's noise?
I'm sorry, what exactly is the tank to do, if it hears the liberator possibly over any combat or similar?
The Liberator is faster than the tank, and unless "safety" behind massive numbers of AA keeps the tank's rear away from that Lib's incoming gunfire, the Tank literally just gave the Liberator an even easier mark.
And past CAI, that rear blast now amplifies damage.

Like, what exactly is the slower target to do?
"I hear a Lib", great. Not like you can do anything meaningful.
Hide under a bridge maybe?

A Tank Buster gave the solo lib pilot, the ability to one-clip AA tanks, and while Solo have the firepower their belly-gun alone should have.
Like jesus, why can a lone pilot of a three-man vehicle wield so much power for the pilot, when in doing so, would make the belly-gun unable to basically fire?
It's a gunship, with 3 weapon systems, yet the Pilot is encouraged to screw the Gunner's entire capability, to go burst a ground-target with a nosegun, that can nuke a MBT in seconds?


Lock-Down: Any long-range fight, Sunderer Destruction, or extended engagement.
If you don't need to move as much, you deploy, and unload.
Grand example, is the Crown & Old Crossroads - Ever seen Prowlers there?

That Shield, is countered by simply engaging & disengaging the Vanguard.
You do know, the Vanguard's reload is already piss-poor, and the Top-Guns aren't exactly stellar in reloads themselves.
The Shield, new & old, are both defensive already
- The fact, your shield has to be on before the first shot, to have the full effect is more than the Prowler's lock-down or maggie's burn, neither need timing, nor have a long cooldown while being depended on for most of the tank's entire focus.

Making it basically unable to even unload shells as fast, pretty much means it can be out-repaired mid-battle.
If not means, by using the Required Shield, the Vanguard's target easily lives.
100% as well, would put everyone at calling it a I-Win shield again, while all it does is keep the tank from being destroyed while retreating, or due to some idiot not thinking the Shield is built to allow face-tanking...

Eh, would have to ask a Prowler main if half-capability for reduced-speed would be worth it.
Mind you, the Artillery Prowler's volley is pretty brutal even while it's a sitting duck.
And it's already the fastest tank - Which makes it more capable to run further from Libs, yet it doesn't live.

That's certainly creative.
And fulfills the Endurance role.

Fire Suppression on a regenerative barrier.
That might get called "I-Win" button as well, as it's free health just like before.
Or is near useless unless against a Magrider.

Why play anything but Vanu on Emerald?
The reward system needs to reward the underdog in some way!

Emerald

Start timeEnd timeWinnerStartResultType

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2017-11-03 13:10:50 2017-11-03 13:55:51 Vanu Sovereignty Control territory to lock Amerish

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2017-11-03 10:28:14 2017-11-03 11:13:15 Vanu Sovereignty Control territory to lock Hossin

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2017-11-03 07:02:33 2017-11-03 07:47:34 Terran Republic Control territory to lock Indar

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2017-11-03 05:04:08 2017-11-03 05:49:09 Vanu Sovereignty Control territory to lock Esamir

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2017-11-03 03:17:33 2017-11-03 04:02:34 Terran Republic Control territory to lock Amerish

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2017-11-03 02:31:32 2017-11-03 03:16:33 Unknown Control territory to lock Amerish

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2017-11-03 01:26:24 2017-11-03 02:11:25 Vanu Sovereignty Control territory to lock Hossin

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2017-11-03 00:35:51 2017-11-03 01:20:52 Unknown Control territory to lock Amerish

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2017-11-02 23:49:50 2017-11-03 00:34:51 Unknown Control territory to lock Amerish

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2017-11-02 20:10:38 2017-11-02 20:55:39 Vanu Sovereignty Control territory to lock Indar

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2017-11-02 16:52:59 2017-11-02 17:38:00 Vanu Sovereignty Control territory to lock Esamir

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2017-11-02 13:09:42 2017-11-02 13:54:43 Vanu Sovereignty Control territory to lock Hossin

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2017-11-02 10:03:38 2017-11-02 10:48:39 Vanu Sovereignty Control territory to lock Amerish

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2017-11-02 06:20:06 2017-11-02 07:05:09 Vanu Sovereignty Control territory to lock Indar

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2017-11-02 03:19:21 2017-11-02 04:04:22 Terran Republic Control territory to lock Esamir

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2017-11-02 02:54:31 2017-11-02 03:39:33 Vanu Sovereignty Control territory to lock Hossin

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2017-11-02 01:47:18 2017-11-02 02:32:19 Unknown Control territory to lock Hossin

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2017-11-02 01:24:43 2017-11-02 02:09:44 Unknown
Control territory to lock Esamir

That's true, with a default regenerating shield, a better utility would be one that enhances the NC high alpha damage, so you activate the utility and your next shot is more powerful, then the utility goes on cooldown

The one time glowing bright yellow is acceptable, the powered shot glows with yellow energy as an indicator, like I just lobbed a sun at their sorrt a$$

It's really on VS infantry that have a newbie "no bullet drop" advantage. Of course, that is nice to veterans too.

I did list taking down PMBs as one of the only things lockdown is good for. But even then, a gal drop is the way to go. As for general combat, I still rank the Prowler 3rd place. 2nd if you're a new player that needs the first shot in order to range the 2nd, as some damage is better than none.

If you keep typing novels I'm going to start calling you Demigan, and reply with the notorious orange text. The Lib and Hornet ESFs completely rely on rear hits to tanks, which puts the aircraft in a very dangerous place, at MBT canon range to be precise. I can tell you from tank hunting experience that veteran tankers can turn and take some of that tankbuster to the side armor while hitting shield and survive the encounter because Libs take fire from everywhere and can't hang out long enough to whittle down their shield or wait for it to expire, even more so with ESF. If you miss a single missile with the 2 salvos of Hornets then the run was a bust and the tank will be back up to full health and more aware of your shenanigans in the future. Good Magrider drivers are the hardest to hit, as aircraft can't yaw for ****, and the Mag can easily avoid most of the tankbuster damage if he gets squirrely. Prowlers are the easiest to hit, by a long shot. Anchored mode is a free kill, they can only move forward and backward so it's easy for aircraft to line up, and they don't have a shield which requires you to hang around. Not much of this matters since the crybabies won and the tankbuster is less than useless, but I encourage you to try a Hornet ESFs and see for yourself how difficult killings tanks in big battles actually is.

Would it have been better to leave the libs tankbuster alone and buff the skyguard to have the same ttk a tankbuster has against air?

And the Tank is completely unable to do anything but rotate, and pray - all of which means, the tank's rotation doesn't cause it to be murdered by anything but the single aircraft deciding to kill it, given Tank armor is directional.

The Liberator picks the engagement, Liberator is the sole one in charge, the Liberator has the agility, and if not solo, can actually use their Gunners for once to off the MBT rather than try to kiss it with the Tankbuster of death.
With any rotation or similar, turning their vulnerable, and now Damage-amplifying rears towards anything else.
Add in the Aircraft unless focus-fired down to death, or retreat, that aircraft can make multiple attacks from full health.
Tank can't even get out of range, let alone do that.

Hornets were nerfed so in a single pass, you, as an ESF could not kill an MBT in one single pass.
The Tank can't outrun either craft, nor pick the engagement, and if they have any AA weapon, they are down a top-gun against every other target type that is more common - and not deliberately packing AV weapons when they attack.

Magrider agility is a bugger.
Prowlers are the widest front-wise, and due to their nature anchor down to increase their artillery style blasts.
Go figure the fastest things, that also deal the most damage, and have the height advantage find the immobile prowler a Free kill.

Ah yes, the cry-babies won, and the Solo Liberators ability to one-clip any target it came across nearly got touched.
After all, every Tank isn't a sitting duck to a Liberator whom can barely be killed before it rips an MBT.
Anything outside of massive amounts of fire being launched into Sky, any MBT, AA tank or similar is ******.
You hear a Liberator, as a defense? Oh good, I get to know I'm dead unless there's so much AA, that none can give a ****.


--

With the logic used for that Lib Tank Buster, we should Keep ESF's being able to Solo-Kill them, but with close-range nose-guns instead.
You know, ensure that Lib could open fire at them, but can't run, can't disengage, and is solo'd down by one pilot.
After all, in a large battle, that ESF won't have an easy time doing the same thing.
But hey, Liberator has better odds; ESF can't take as many hits as a Liberator flying at a MBT to kiss it.

Not sure how Liberators became the topic here

Vanguard apparently was the most annoying tank to Tank-bust with a Liberator.
And then the whole "tank buster should be able" came up, while the Tank is literally on the defensive, with no means to live outside of a cluster-**** around it - Where rotation is certainly a death sentence.

That is how.

What I don't get is how we accept other tanks advantages no problem.

Prowler with HESH can OHK 2 seperate infantry per reload

Magrider can shoot into bases from the side of a mountain

Vanguard was harder to kill with its shield, while also being the only tank dependant on it's utility. All while still being the statistically worse performing tank even with its iWin shield.

That's why I think they need to rethink the Vanguard, the instant shield even now doesn't fit the Vanguard playstyle because it doesn't have the DPS to be a guns blazing brawler tank. The Vanguard is best played from range using cover, so it would work better as longer term endurance than short term instant defense. Force the more mobile tanks to get closer to crack the shell, so to speak. A portion of the Vanguard's HP as a regenerating shield would do that, all while not giving it anymore HP than it normally has at anytime, if you flank it or corner it you can kill it, but you can't wear it down from range if it has cover.

I suppose that might make it more vulnerable to harrassers though, not sure.

I dont think the devs actually care and they dont even read thier own forums. This game is gonna die and it wil lbe abandoned IP. Not because the concept is bad but the implementation is terrible. Thats why the best guns are mostly ns so they can milk it till it stops and move on to some other game and do the same.