When people complain about population, they're probably not talking about world population.

In addition to the good ideas mentioned above, has SOE considered changing the alert format somehow so it doesn't so heavily benefit large numbers? Somehow make the alert goal(s) more strategic, requiring more coordinated (squad-sized) organization, maybe more rapid deployment?

Or try to shorten the overall alert duration, so that even with a large population advantage, the deciding battles are still going on as the timer is ticking down. 2 hours just gives us way to much time to get bored because it's already decided an hour into the alert.

I also like the weighted XP/resource bonuses ideas.

I think your missing the point of my thoughts. I'm saying Localy the lower pop gets a xp boost at a BASE, not contenent wide. This is intended to try to help give insentive to fight with more even, slightly outnumbered odds, rather then the Zerg so you always win that happens quite oftain.Doing what your saying there would have Zero affect on my sugestion as they are in the warp gate, not an actual base where there is fighting, and they would get no XP, since the xp bonus is going to come from actions in a fight, not sitting on your ***.

At worst what I'm sugesting could be exploited by people loging on a ton of alts to change the balance of a fight to prevent a side from getting the bonus, but it Can NOT be exploited into getting free xp.

PS2 is about scale yes, but there is a diffrence between a Fun fight due to its size and scope, and one where its 20 vs 80.

I do agree on this, but as XP really is one of the only motivaters that many go for (certs and all), we need to change the system on how xp is currently awarded.

Right now XP is really an All or nothing system. Sure you get xp for assits, or damage to aircraft, but the most xp comes from being there and doing the action. Last hit to kill a person, being in the SOE as a base caps, etc. This system needs to change if we really want to spread out the fights and it is one of the reasons that the Hex system failed, since Hex wanted spread out fights, but the reward systems Pushed people into being at one place at a time.

What is needed is 3 things:

1. Base cap XP needs to be on a sliding scale, much like how alert xp is now, in that the longer you are fighting at the base, the more xp the eventual cap is for you. This can be modified by your actions, so if your doing more, you can get more xp ( to a maximum) in shorter time then say someone whos afk in a spawn room.

2. Base cap XP needs to be rewarded when it flips to all participants, even if they are outside the SOI. It is plain stupid that someone can swoop in to a base that was a Long and hard fight in the last 10 seconds and yet get full XP, yet that tank that moved just outside the SOI for that last second gets nothing, even if they were there the entire fight.

3. There needs to be a Shared XP, cert boost for your empires performance as a whole across a contenet. This could be something like a minor xp award for territorys being captured or defended even if you personaly are not there. Making this xp be based similer to Alert or the base XP I'm sugesting, could be used so that someone sitting afk in the warpgate or some random corner of the map gets little to no xp while those who are being active get more.

vehicles are not nerfed you can farm people very easily with vehicles.

artillery had with the varying degrees of usefulness and higby said they have no intention of adding artillery to game.

we already have the capability to do carpet bombing so it wouldn't be really something you're adding.

Coming from humble beginnings to running 1-2 platoons everyday, I can honestly say that my guys never try to duplicate orders or concentrate in one area thats already being contested by a bunch of allies (Unless it's part of an alert objective, then we take into consideration heavy defense and expect a massive zerg to come our way).

We've gone to the point where we get bored if we arn't facing 2-1 odds in the enemy's favor.

The issue here is that it seems other outfits/servers have become desensitized when it comes to the word 'zerg' (or fighting against overwhelming odds)

On connery there are a select few from all factions that go above and beyond the call and go through that hell to see if they can reverse that stigma.

No incentive other than the pure challenge of an outnumbered force attacking or defending.

The current implementations to the game work fine and are a definate step in the right direction and
TBH these 'zerg v zerg' battles arn't about who has the bigger population at the time.







It's a battle of morale,a battle of attrition and tactical prowess.

And when people lose an even fight or a supposedly one-sided fight (having more numbers in your favor), the next fight gets even worse, they leave and the bigger force gets smaller AND then people complain about being underpopped.

Again, this is only one outfit leader's opinion. My guys are 800 strong and growing, but we came from the unpopped VS side on HELIOS and made it all the way to what we are now. We went through hell and back.

TLR Quit complaining about being underpopped and MAN UP AND ENJOY THE CHALLENGE.

Well in the end you can patch a game but you can't patch the players sadly, the only real fix to this issue with the playerbase we have to deal with since several years ago would be to turn the war game in an arena game and i'm pretty sure nobody want that.

You won't ever be able to force the players to fight for all of the contestable bases, if they want to have a effortless and meaningless victory they will just zerg with more than half their population in one direction then the defenders will leave, and they will make an other zerg on the other side of the continent (because currently it feels like the continent is huge but 90% is empty and the whole population is fighting over 3 maybe 4 bases, and no sane squad will initiate a ghost cap for twenty minutes only to have a whole zerg suddenly redeploy and roflstomp them), then nobody is happy /rinse_and_repeat.

Now if you really want to try a solution involving a carrot instead of a stick (well i would say a spiked club would be the bare minimum) here is the only thing i can see : why would players feel the need to fight over more territory if the only interesting base reward is the forward MBT spawn from the techplant; players don't go to a biolab fight for something else than a cert farm or a biolab alert, i'm not sure which is the most usefull, the biolab hp regen or the medic's triage, and amp stations...yeah.
Maybe a real bonus for biolabs and amp station can make a difference, maybe even some kind of bonus stacking for holding two facilities of the same type (without it being totally imbalanced and resulting in players going in a straight line to get those two facilities because that won't solve the problem).

XP isn't the solution, i didn't see it prevent Esamir and Amerish from being either ghost continents or onesided by a one faction zerg, if it didn't work for a whole continent i don't see this work for outposts, especially if it involves going into a 1v2 meatgrinder. In my opinion the only solution would be to give a real reason to split the population by giving territory a real meaning outside of continent domination alerts. (but then again it's assuming a FPS playerbase in 2013 can understand the concept of playing the objective)

Or some kind of spiked club...

I don't really agree with you on some stuff.
I'll explain myself.
Regarding the spawn shields.
1st . I have no problem with them. The problem is kdr hos! who stay the whole time in them without trying to come out and retake or defend the base. Times like this i wish there wasn't kdr.
Just last week on the Amerish biolab ( sorry forgot name of it) In a Alert we lost it because at least i saw 15 ppl just inside the teleporter spawn room. That is a whole squad in there.
What I suggest is the same way that the enemy can't shoot in then sadly to say the defenders can't shoot out.
This in turn will stop the kdr hos from staying in the spawn room.
By taking away the shields the only thing you are doing is not allowing the defenders to have a chance in defending the base.
I've been a quite a number of so called lost causes that at the end we retook the base.

It's not XP or certs they are after, but purely after pewpew. MAke it so there is no pewpew where you significantly outnumber your enemy (*cough*destructable spawntubes*cough*... TUBES, not SCU) and it'll balance out quickly.


PS Maybe people will even start noticing that they get XP for capturing facilities... But OHNOEZPS1FFS...

You couldn't of said all this better!
props on your post

No, when I complain about population it is ALWAYS global.

thats bad.

Ground artillery would be nice in the case you are outnumbered heavily. In everyday planetside combat i dont think it'll be balanced well

(i never played PS1 so i may just be ignorant)

I really have too many words for what are issues for me as a defensive player. I will try to boil this down.

1. I fight the UI to figure out where I need to be.
2. No populations on the gate to another continent UI. Those are land ownership pie charts.
3. Continental populations count afk people in warpgates. A sanctuary would or could solve this, or not counting warp gates.
4. Continental populations give me a % but not a hard number. 30% of 12 people on a continent is an extreme eample, but not unheard of. This is bad.
5. No quick way to get where I need to go as a defensive player unless I fly.
6. Defensive items are worse for preparing for a defense in planetside 2 than planetside 1.
7. The experience bonus for being out numbered is continental wide, poor, and generally not claimed due to having to get kills while being out numbered. Planetside 1 even gave a health bonus, but even then it was poor and not worth it.
8. The maps are designed without a meta game in mind, or a very poor meta game. They are just bad maps even with lattice links.

If we had all the statistics we might be able to help better. Stuff like time most players quit ps2, server faction pops, and other stuff. Right now better xp boosts for under pops even double xp at a point.

1. Stop shooting through spawn shields.
2. Players using Existing Command Tools
3. Better Command Tools

Something that just happened. Oh Arroyo Torre station is under attack? Better go defend it. I spawn there and the enemy out numbers us, as well as have spawn locations on the cliffs. Remove the cliffs and this might be a situation I would stick around with, but with the cliffs, there isn't a reason.

I mean these maps are really really bad. They feel like they were designed with air in mind until you get to a biolab, then that is infantry. Who in the right mind builds bases in valleys over and over again when the enemy could get to the high ground?

One word:

Performance.



I'm going to go with Performance for a 1000 Alex.

Going alone (with not too helpful randoms) against an enemy force will not give the results one would get if they had a few fighters clearing the skies, a few tanks clearing the fields, and a few people on foot clearing the buildings with them.

Joining an outfit does give more XP than playing randomly in many cases.


As for the topic- I'd say the defense bonus should increase a bit, and an "outnumbered" bonus should be introduced.
The more outnumbered, the bigger the bonus, up to even 50% if outnumbered 3:1 or more in a given base. That'll pretty much encourage the well organized/skillful people who enjoy an uphill battle to look not for the toughest fight they'll win, but the toughest fight, period.

Giving a few more paths down the Lettuce will also help spread out zergs, especially when they'd be vulnerable to having their supply line cut off in 15 minutes rather than 45- they'd either have to take 3 corridors and battle on a wide front (instead of often 1 in the current system) or get encircled by a small group of people who can read the map.

Right, no sticks. Isnt the situation created by too many sticks already? Fight there, spawn there, use vehicles/consumables you feel comfortable with only a few times till resource runs out etc. This is the legacy of removing choice into lanes, its condensed players into a few places and taken away outfits ability to draw the fight sideways to fresh territory.

The term safety in numbers applies here. When outfits could break out to a new base it created an organic flow across a continent, remember squads are the smallest unit, platoons are the largest but when you make battles be managed by lattice it creates far larger battles than the largest unit we can command (platoon) so leaving squad size units feeling helpless and less able to affect the outcome in any battle they move to, not just the one in front of their face. Now you wonder why they wont break off the zerg or an advantageous situation?

We all want to feel a hero in our 1.9 hours of nightly gaming and choices enabling that were reduced through prescriptive gameplay.

Right now on indar (and now esamir) theres sheer lack of variety so we end up piling onto the most advantageous situation remaining. Having 3 (or 4 if really lucky) choices of battle isnt enough, often we can discount 1 or 2 immediately (maybe we dont like biolabs, maybe its a bad base, maybe we fought there for an hour and still nothings changed, maybe its already 70%+ against us) leaving the best of a worst bunch. One problem (as you are seeing) is given free choice players want to join a battle where they fight some, advance and get the win after some to-fro. Who wants to fight for ages being farmed, leaving as a failure by the base overpop? It happens but not many would actively choose it.

Players have told you over and over they want a choice of battles, not just a few zerg lanes per map. Having more choice of base creates a pressure relief for those who seek smaller battles, want to get out of the madness of a zerg standoff and has an element of self levelling. Even the overpop gets bored of a standoff sometimes yet options to break off to somewhere they arent farmed are now much reduced, so there they stay.

Oh and then theres these new spawn rules. Less choice of spawn = more condensing again as they move to the nearest battle from the few allowed. Isnt that more stick? Perhaps this is the point of your epiphany, realising controlling players reduces happiness and creates more problems than it solves whereas enabling people with wide options creates a feeling of freedom (freedom sells) allowing you to guide them with carrots far easier.

Increase choice, focus on the granular level of the units we control, enable people to feel they are forging their own path and let the imbalances settle back out. Now we have few choices of battle people are going nowhere and will stay clumped, for safety as much the psychological effect of stroking their ego as winners.

Currently, all PS2 is, is a fight over the local hex. Outside of alerts is anyone really concerned about what is going on in other hexes?

The Carrot:
Firstly, redistribute capture bonuses to be continent wide for each faction (and reduce them in size obviously). This means there is no need to wait around for cap points, but zerging a base still offers benefits in that it is a sure thing.

The 'Stick', which actually turned into a carrot:
Make it undesirable to lose bases to encourage the zergs to distibute themselves or counterzerg. This is a tricky one, as making it undesireable to have fewer bases is a bad idea (leads to 4th factioners). So instead implement some sort of capture streak bonus, or an xp income tick for not losing bases. so a faction which captures 5 bases without losing any might get 100% xp for the first, 125% for second, up to 200% for the 5th. Similar deal with the not losing ticks, 5mins without losing a base gets the faction 250xp, the next 5mins gets 300, etc etc up to about 500.

The critical evaluation.
The carrot will be seen as a stick for many who like zerging and getting the full amount of cap points, but overall I think it can be tuned to encourage a global war.
The sticky carrot is able to be 'exploited' on empty continents, but the gains from that on an empty cont is unlikely to be higher than xp gained from fighting on a full cont anyway. And you might get two or more factions trying the same thing anyway...

First we need major goals like cont locking etc.
Second we need strategic goals that people on a squad/platoon level can perform much like the "missions" in the roadmap.

In addition to what others said here I don't think just xp cert farming is the solution here. We need to have some motivation for people to join a platoon or outfit and organize. That is the core of this game large organized outfits. Beyond that there is still room for smaller squad based outfits to do meaningful objectives.

I think a lot of this problem is due to organization/ apathy more than server pops although it still is an issue. Alerts in their current form are taking toll on new players by getting dominated constantly. We need to get a better sense of community and faction loyality in these servers. You SOE needs to herd new players into meaningful help for their squad platoon. The solo player is not the player you want to market this game to. They may complain and whine on these forums the most but they are not the ones that will stick around because they have no investment in the community aka their outfit and even enemies they love to fight. They are the newer COD ADD generation that have the attention span of an ant. Theya re also the ones switching during alerts making the game not fun for people in organized outfits that have investment in community . These are the poeple that kill your game and you have to use the stick so to speak on this particular group of people because they do not care for anything except selfish goals.

In regards to organization perhaps instead of a commmand channel that anyone can cert into we should have an OUTFITS only channel where an outfit can grant access for a member to two to be the representative. The current command chat is good for herding solo players zerg but its so much spam also. Maybe have a vote system that a platoon leader can request OUTFIT representative and the squad/platoon members can vote him in. This would allow decent sized outfits to coordinate better without having to use third party chat programs and servers. Also if a 40+platoon drops on a fight and starts outnumbering it they can call for backup over the OUTFIT channel. list the outfits in the channel and size so we know what kind of force we have to wield or coordinate so we dont have cases of sending a whole platoon to drop on a pretty even fight that really only needs an extra squad or two to push it in out favor. In this way the larger more organized outfits can fight the bigger battles so to speak AKA the zerg and the smaller platoons/squad outfits can be used as needed.
Edit: This does not even require a vote system just grant it to platoon leaders