When did Farming Become an Entitlement?

In a way, yes. And SOE has. Repeatedly. The problem is that the ways they've dumbed down the game aren't much fun, which is the point of gaming. SOE just cannot grasp this concept, hence the player numbers situation.

Its a tricky question.

On the one hand farming requires other players to commit a mistake(such as keeping running out of the spawnroom while its being barraged by anchored HE Prowlers) but on the other hand people just want to play the shooter game without constantly having to redeploy to find right battles.

However, majority of battles are unbalanced. If the unbalance is huge then it means one side will spawncamp the other. If the unbalance slightly more tolerable(such as in 60%:40% fights) then it is possible to have decent fight as long as there aren't many tanks and aircraft spamming explosives.

I have farmed infantry with my nosegun for 20+ mins in a med sized fight with 0 AA, 0 rifles and 0 dumbfire rockets fired at me, and that was back when bursters where OP! It would have taken 1, I repete 1 burster to get me to stop that, but no one pulled it so I just racked up the kills until aircraft came around or I needed ammo.

Then people complain that ESF are OP lmao... Maybe back in beta / early release, but the people who still call rocket pods "LolPods" in any sense that is not "Lol the pods kinda blow" is just funny to me.

Replace "armor" with "air" and "AV" with "AA" and you have air balance as well >.>

It puts a death on your record and forces you to start back at a spawn point. Risk isn't meant as physical risk that something might happen to you, it's a video game. The risk is that you fail, and you start back over from spawn possibly losing resource points, depending on how you were playing.

Anyway, the risk/reward argument is still fairly valid. If someone is able to rake up a ton of kills at little risk of an enemy killing them, then you would say there is low risk high reward.

Been playing PS2 for quite a while now and think I've only been on the tank side of such a thing once or twice. It is one of the most boring things I've ever gone through. I went from one base to the next, tempted to say mooo at every turn, and only fired my gun once by mistake when I was banging my head against my desk.

It seems like raising the cost of certain vehicles might be worth a shot. A platoon that pulls too many tanks, without regard for adequate support, should be making a tactical error. Just as some here have argued infantry that don't think before leaping at tanks deserve to be farmed... armor that leaps into the fray without thinking should not live long either. Both should require a bit of pre-action thought and coordination. Not mounds of thought, this isn't Project Reality, but some thought.

Have a problem with an engineer using an AV turret you can't render from the safety of your tank? Hmm, what could possibly be done about that...
Wait! Here's an idea, how about a tank with some infantry support? An able-bodied sniper can clear the way for your tank by taking out those static engineers from a distance. That's only one potential solution. It isn't the only one.

As it is now, some of you sound like you want to roll your tank unimpeded right up to the doorstep without requiring any support or thought of any kind. This is not really supposed to be that game. Maybe World of Tanks? Not sure, but if I were interested in that kind of game, I would seek out that kind of game. This is not that kind of game. It should not be that kind of game. It was not advertised as that kind of game.

If you were looking for a biology class but went to the chemistry building, they would not suddenly call it the biology building to appease your mistake. Best thing to do is to simply walk over to the biology building and get on with life. Not complicated.

If this game encourages new players to run with an outfit instead of mindlessly zerging, I bet we would have a much better new player retention.

for instance, My outfit has no problem taking in brand new players that just started the game, even with 0 certs! We can teach them things, they can run with a organized group that will give them a bit more safty and they will have a much better time of getting in good fights because we have experienced players who do the looking for them. Then they have to worry less about countering tanks and air with stuff they do not have because we have other players who will pull items to do said countering (If I see a large amount of air, I call for AA, and most everyone goes AA to counter the air until its gone, same with tanks).

I think the real problem of this game is this.

This game sucks when playing alone because its made for group play, but SOE does little to encourage new players to find an outfit beyond sending them to an open squad at the start of the game. Maybe there should be a "Looking for outfit" terminal in warp gate that gives players some useful information about outfits (with the ability of outfits to put some text in, IE "We require teamspeak") and gives players a way to communicate with officers / members (however the outfit lead decides) to get them into the squad.

Just an FYI, if it does not render for the tank, it will not render for that sniper.

You should not be able to attack a target if it can not attack you, that is only fair.

The issue that a lot of us armor players have with AV right now is that it's simply uncounterable.

The MANA AV Turret renders at infantry ranges, and that means that NOBODY outside infantry render range can see it. That friendly sniper can't do anything about it, which is okay, because the MANA AV user doesn't even know he's there. He can only see the tank. The tank can't see him.

Someone that lands a drop pod on my tank and is carrying C4 WILL get the kill. It doesn't matter how many people are around me. He'll have his explosive gifts dropped and detonated before he's even rendered.

The guy firing his Striker at me from 400m is the same as the AV Turret user. My infantry support can't see him.

So the end result is totally backwards. Instead of armor hanging back and shelling because it has a longer effective range than infantry, which would make sense, the infantry has longer effective range, which means armor has to charge forward through the ****-storm of AV to have a hope of taking any of it out.

Unless youre not playing alone, then you not only don't have to start back from a spawn point, that death is removed from your sheet. So it is completely worthless.

the only time you get farmed is if your dumb enough to sit at a base that's already clearly taken. i actually enjoy the vehicle spam because its massive point for my frac max and its a fun challenge for my friends and i in a harasser.

to be 100% honest i really dont feel tanks have near as much armor, same as maxs. the are killed so easily that it makes them not much of a challenge anymore. when i see armor or tanks i pull out my AV, either frac max or what ever and just start shooting.

i agree, its the same problem with my max. AV for infantry and c4 is barely counter-able. tanks and max units do not have enough armor to shrug off several hits and find the person attacking. the AV turret needs a limiter as in a distance or time limiter so it wont go out of render range. in any bio dome or base fight maxs dont last long at all. doesnt matter what you do, your not as formidable as your should be.

i dont believe armor is the one we need to worry about with farming i think its infantry farming the armor. need to rebuff that HEAT back to the way it was, or give armor well more armor.

Farming is an entitltment to people that want to be farmed and cba to counter and then they go on forums and whine about "weapons" and other stuff are "farming" tools thus SOE nerfing that thing.

I wasn't suggesting the sniper sit right beside the tank.

Only fair isn't something anyone in that tank zerg pictured above is worried about.
The only hope of defending against a zerg like that is doing as much damage as you can from a distance before the tanks get in range. Once the tanks are in range, the AV turret(s) will never get a second shot.
Currently, even if we manage to take out a few tanks before respawning there no longer makes sense, that tank is replaced in no time at all.

It's as UberBonniseur said: You can't have AV nerfs if tank spam stays.

Cool with me if you think it is only fair to have a one-shot-one-kill tank go head to head against a 4 or 5 shot to kill turret but then managing to kill the tank should mean the tank stays dead longer. Much longer.

It is uncounterable by the individual tank sitting in place, in open view. However, as noted above, I wasn't suggesting the sniper shouldn't be allowed to move up to get his job done. He can cloak, he can sneak, an AV turret has less head protection than an AI turret... a sniper should be able to handle this before the AV turret gets enough rockets on your tank to ruin your day. Particularly if you happen to have an engineer helping you. They're evidently safe from the AV turret, but not an enemy sniper that has moved head to counter your engineer... etc.

Once a tank is within range of shooting at the AV turret, and assuming the tank can land the second shot after using the first to measure distance, the AV turret is done.

Another thought:
Say you have armor reinforced in the front of your tank, and the speed bonus chassis.
You get hit by a turret you can't yet see, but you can detect the direction the hit came from.
You turn your reinforced armor into the incoming next rocket and make haste getting within range.
The AV turret stands a chance if they land every shot, I would guess.
However, would you not stand a chance as well? Sure, you'll take damage, you'll need to repair, you'll be vulnerable, but you went to war man, what did you expect?

I've died to a striker more times than I care to count, or remember . Such is life, but I can assure you that when I play a sniper and I'm sneaking into flanking position on a forward location... those red consecutive rockets of a striker are the highest value target to me. They are immediately my priority precisely because I know how deadly they are to friendly armor and air trying to approach.

The C4 is a whole different ball of wax. I don't really want to approach that in this thread just because the C4 crowd gets a bit rabid at times and I don't want to wake them.

Yeah, I see your point there. I don't really think of tanks as artillery, to me that's more of the dalton lib role... but that's just me.

Which is totally cool with me, as someone who primarily plays infantry. I agree a tank should be a really formidable foe, and to be honest by the time it reaches me, it often is. Same with a max unit. The new player in a max suit without many certs in it won't be that scary... but I've sure seen some max units do extremely well out there, especially with a little support.

I think part of the trouble might be ensuring the lone wolf tank, or lone wolf max unit doesn't become such a formidable foe as to be just completely silly. I do lone wolf often, but also understand this is a squad based game. If I really want to be that effective and formidable, I need to be surrounded by a team. The more cohesive the team, the more formidable, rather than hard coded stats.

One piece of armor having more armor must be balanced with fewer individual pieces of armor somehow, imho. One tank or max unit facing a squad of infantry should still be vulnerable as long as the squad knows their equipment.

etc.

Yes, that 4 to 5 shot kill turret should have to face the 1 shot tank, because that tank costs the driver resources, time and a hell of a lot more certs than that 1000 cert / 700SC turret that spawns free on a free unit with a 10 second cooldown.

Anything with a long timer and a resource cost that also tends to have a high cert investment should be able to best many 10 second timer no resource units, otherwise what is the point of having said long timer resource units (btw this includes maxes).

In essence I do agree, though with one caveat. The big key here is to recognize when a farming situation comes from a result of imbalance, and when it comes from a result of people not using the tools available to them.

A single guy in a reaver/mosquito/scythe who is blowing apart a small squad of 12 guys with his rocketpods is not a farming situation. It's a situation where the guys on the ground aren't pulling AA to fight him, then complain when he's getting away with it. Of course he's going to get away with it when the people down below aren't using the equipment that's available to fight him.

We should also put 5 minute times on spawning to balance out infantry players since tank players are limited to such extremes.

lol Wut?

How dare such a peasant speak such blasphemy of the Vanguard


Did that massive infantry assault pouring out of the sunderers onto your base suddenly evaporate?
Enemy Armor column suddenly disappear?
Mossies are gone?
Galaxy intercepted mid flight?
Liberators blasted from the heavens?


Single-handedly shaping the battlefield with the annihilation of key enemy mechanized assets with a single tank and an AP cannon.

Bow down you worthless peasants! Bow before the glorious vanguard!

ALL HAIL VANGUARD!

Try framing the question like this. Why is it a group of people that wanted asymetrical balance between armor / air / and ground are upset when a fantastic, strategic and well though out game is brought down to simplistic person = person calculations for a bunch of people that can't imagine, figure out, or think through any other possibility than pulling SHNIPA has to be the solution to any problem including 20 tanks sitting outside your spawn.

Obviously their 1337 skills have nothing to do with any organs residing above their necks. If it can't be solved by K/D super sniper it must be nerfed into beyondo stupidity even a cave slug can understand it tacticz mode. Hidin in the hills pew pew pew I 1337 K/D super aim!

That's not how it works.

Tank spam is overwhelming.
Usually the wave of 20 tanks coming your way will just EAT the damage until they reach your base.
You might be able to kill 10 tanks, but the 10 others are at your doorstep.
Worse, the bad, 0 cert 0 investment 1/2 tankers act as meatshields for the good one.

Thus the most devastating tankers manage get in a good position with ease while a dozen idiots are being focused instead.



The "resource cost" is barely an investment with separate resource pools.
Might be solved with the new system, but can't know for sure.

There is currently no downside to spawn a tank after capping a base; you're faster, you hit harder, and you have armor.
It's like a power-suit, an armored taxi.