When did Farming Become an Entitlement?

All balance changes do is change who farms who. Now infantry farms tanks. Not very logical but its just how Auraxis spins around with SOE FOTM balance changes.

Wrong, very wrong.

Take off your blinders and have a look at the "waaaah lock on weapons can sometimes target my flying cert farm" threads all over the place. You probably made a few, yourself. People need to do handstands backwards while firing pistols with their feet to satisfy the requirements that air-farmers demand for being shot at. Because "skill".

Please. Spare us.

Death-penalty/permadeath e-cultist detected.

TTK is too low and respawns are too fast, right now most people just spam their respawn button or get isntantly rezed by a medic and just start spamming their guns again, don't know how anyone can only play infantry combat in this game. Farming is just going to happen with the way its set up.

I agree with this. Splash damage is overpowered and makes new players quit en masse. I have gotten all of my former friends who i played MMOs with to play this game. All of them quit within a few hours. Always because some vehicle farmed them over and over. Mostly tanks cause back when i was getting my friends to play tank splash was even more ridiculous than it is now.

Splash damage is the reason for most of the problems in this game. Air has had to endure repeated nerfs so noobs could farm infantry with rocket pod splash. Vehicles have been nerfed repeatedly due to splash damage. UBGL another stupid splash weapon.

I love this game, (for the most part) but its hard to get people to play when you always have to add disclaimers. Or to sit in TS with your new to the game friends and try to convince them that the game doesnt suck because they got killed by some farmer in a max suit or a tank or what have you over and over.

I mostly fly now (without rocket pods) but the other day i got an smg for my vs inf and i deployed in a big battle. I pop up out of the spawn room and run out the door and a tank blasts me dead instantly. I'm like ok, gotta watch out for that. So i pop out again and i stand in the furthest corner of the room from the door where the tank is shelling, and he shoots a couple rounds into the room and i die anyway. It was a prowler.

The feeling of helplessness as an infiltrator vs armor is not fun. I just got in my plane, equipped my seldom used lol pods and blew the tank up, but what does a new player do? Or someone who doesnt fly or have a specced out AV option?

Its not good for a game to have these massive force multipliers. Right now vehicles dont really DO anything but farm. If they had objectives that could only be taken by tanks, and objectives only taken by planes, we would be able to seperate to some degree the vehicle vs infantry war which mainly just causes frustration on both sides.

...You tried to fight a tank, as a class that can't kill tanks, and you lost?

That tank must be overpowered. Not like you could have gone Heavy and shot at it or anything.

You don't need a "specced" AV option (though you should really have one) because you get a rocket launcher. For free. The first time you spawn as Heavy. It's one of the most powerful AV weapons in the game, actually, and it hurts tanks a lot. Trying to face off against a tank's front armor should result in your death, it is a TANK, after all. Did you expect to be able to solo it?

You're right, WoW trash mobs are harder and require more attention since they have better AI than your avg player.

I'm baffled by the OP's post. It seems there is a growing consensus of entitled infantry players that think it's okay to use AV weapons against vehicles at distances that vehicles can't render them and thus can't fight back. Yet when vehicles get close enough to fight back infantry think they should be able to shrug off a few tank shells at their feet while trying to solo the front of a tank. This is not as it should be, since attacking and preferably flanking vehicles WITHIN their effective range, not way beyond it, should be how the game works when it comes to countering vehicles. Currently however you can automatically win against an armor force of any size by sitting over 400 meters away invisible while spamming AV projectiles nullifying the MainBattleTank before it can even fire upon or render you.

Secondly flanking a tank should be rewarded with extra damage (it is), and trying to fight a tank head on should result in death if even one tank shell lands directly at your feet (that's not how it works anymore thanks to whining) and even if you cert against explosive damage you should always be killed if any type of tank shell directly hits your body. However because of infantry whiners who don't want this to be a proper combined arms game with powerful vehicles that rewards players for their accuracy overshield HA's can take a direct hit from a HEAT or AP shell and live to tell the tale.

In other words, if you're farming MBT's from a distance with little fear of retaliation from said tanks then this is a clear indicator of imbalance. Your fellow Tankers are looking for a fair fight and targets that they can actively render and fire upon, and not have their anti armor duties stolen by infantry sitting on a rock or tower 400-700m away from where the actual battle is taking place!

Since SOE's current AV weapons support nullifying the roles of tanks out in the open from beyond their effective range by all means continue to blow up tanks while at the same time whining and crying when you've lost a base to infantry and now tanks are there too. Please stop being an Infantryside 2 supporter if changes happen that buff vehicles to make them kings of the open field and make this a proper combined arms game like Battlefield 2142 was.

Infantry fights need to be separated from vehicle fights just like in PS1.

This is not counterstrike, and commanders do want the technical flexibility of calling in tactical tools that can wipe out/ suppress mass infantry when properly handled. I don't mind seeing another bump on resource consumption of MBTs, lightnings, harassers, ESFs, and libs. (maybe in the range of 50 more) Of course, then we can dragged into another p2w argument that we can't get out of.

The balance can in theory never be perfect. There is/are 1 or 2 threads on ESFs currently. I don't think pilots would complain that A2G ESFs are not effective atm, though they are not comically overpowered like a year ago. So maybe the perfect spot is still more towards nerfing A2G ESFs. But how much is too much? On the one hand, we don't want to turn this into counterstrike, or at least I don't. I like how the big battles feel at the moment: brutal close-quarter infantry fights inside buildings, tanks locking down regions and providing suppressive fires, and the faction dominating the sky keeping infantries in cover. On the other hand, if vehicles are too powerful, no one would play as infantry, and this game would also lose a lot of its charms.
However, I am hearing two somewhat incompatible arguments: 1. The game is too brutal towards new players, and 2. The game has too many tools that inexperienced players can use with ease. Solving one would necessarily undermine the other. The game involve mass casualties. You can either design the overall system the make experience less relevant or you give more reward to experience and skill (and conversely inevitable "punishment" to newer players.) I like how skill matters less in this game than teamwork and good communication, and I'm fine with the fact that a lower br player catches me in the open can light me on fire with an ESF. Maybe when we introduce friends, we need to make it clear that dying is ok, and the best part of this game is not about the traditional K/D ratio, but the satisfaction of taking over a biolab after a hard fight.

everyone wants to nerf the game in favour of their play tactics, and no one wants to play the game as it is.

Well said. Whenever I read posts on this forum moaning about how their poor ESF, Lib or tank was shot at by something that scared them a tiny bit and how bad that is to have interrupted their kill spree, I just shake my head in disbelief at the irony!

Vehicle play in this game boils down to one thing only - farming! I wish that were different, and that more interesting and challenging gameplay were available for them, but it virtually isn't.

I think ESFs can take another nerf without impacting their place in the game. But if I'm commanding a platoon, and I ask a squad to pull air for suppression, I want to make sure that even uncarted libs/ mossies are effective to some extent.

So where is your happy medium of effectiveness? When I want effective air cover, I want the mossies to be able to dominate enemies airheaded enough to be out of cover and/or with no AA. In those scenarios, my air units should be able to dominate and farm these people. In short, if we want armors and airs to have the ability to suppress infantry, they must be able to farm them. They can be weaker, but should never be so weak that they can't suppress (or "farm") exposed infantry.

Which I think is really the most critical aspect of this problem. For vehicles to fulfill their role of suppressing infantry, the should be able to farm. When they are used correctly, they should be farming infantry. Take away the ability to suppress exposed infantry and you leave the only tactical value (I can think of) of air units to be taking out armors and sunderers, and armors' value at taking out air and sunderers. Would this kill the combined-arm aspect of the game? Probably not, but you will significantly weaken it. Because then infantry would become a soft counter to anything, and the point of pulling air or armor would become more to, if not primarily to, killing sunderers to prevent infantry spawn. In other words, you'll turn this into an infantry-centric game.

So would I dislike more nerfing of armor and air? Probably, but not because I lose the ability to farm. I play mostly infantry and if I do "farm," I do it with MSW or TAR. I would dislike it because it can make the game revolve around infantry combat, and that would turn one aspect of the game (combined arm) I like away. As my previous post states, I don't mind raising the resource consumption of combat vehicles, so they become rarer. But I do not want to see the combined-arm combats as they currently are (infantry can be suppressed very effectively, and thus require combined arm on their part to operate) take away in favor of a game that revolves around infantry combat.

Battlefield 2142 had something called "scarcity": there were a limited number of vehicles at a time and not whole zerg columns and endless lolpod squadrons.

Farm up to level 100, stroke your ego for a bit, get tired of Planetside 2 and leave. The community is stale with arrogant power gamers who complain that you're not as good as you should be for whatever lame reason.

1.Sitting back and hitting slow moving or still tanks, which are required to be still to be accurate, at 400 meters or more with lock ons, Lancers, and AV turrets and calling that high skill cap is clear demonstration of what is wrong with infantyside 2 minded players like yourself. Looking at a target and basically being guaranteed a hit while the tracking system of the rocket does the work is high skill cap to you? HAHA!

2. I have proximity radar to help avoid C4 and normally when I die to C4 it's my fault, but nice attempt at deflecting the argument at hand with something I didn't bring up and you are incorrect at stating in the first place.

3. If you've never seen tanks get farmed in a large battle than you are either a scrub who is completely oblivious to the battle going around him or your server doesn't pull AV when they encounter tanks. In which case I suggest you come to Mattherson and play where it's tough instead of being condescending and acting like tanks never get farmed by infantry AV in large battles.

4. Battlefield 2142 also didn't have rockets that could hit you from way beyond infantry render distance either.

5. Apparently any time tanks kill infantry it's "farming" to you. Check your definition of what farming is, because currently it's wrong. The only complaints I put forth are that infantry should have to be visible to shoot at tanks, be within a tanks distance of firing in order to fire (overlaps with render distance), and not be able to take a direct tank shell to the body or explosive AOE around the feet *without flak* and survive. My requests are reasonable, your counter points are not.

OF course I fight other tanks look at my dang stats page and you'll see I have over 1000 vehicle kills. Furthermore I'm in a combined arms outfit in task force which is required to take on armor and infantry at all times, so we always run HEAT or AP.

You can't defend yourself from an invisible entity 500-600 meters away, you can only leave the battle or run before you die. At least when tanks fire at you you can always see the tank, and the tank is always within range for you to hit with your lock on launchers which take little to know skill to use while having to hit moving infantry does. Tanks have to play by the rules and are always counterable, infantry aren't held to those rules right now

Dead on man! I can see most vehicle power gamers get upset at any interruption to their farming spree. "How dare they fight back!? Don't these plebs know their place?"

This is where the farming entitlement settles in: newer players are meant to be cannon fodder for the vehicle certed veterans. They see it as a hazing process that benefits themselves but don't realize the cost of alienating new players or those who prefer playing infantry. It puts SOE in a tough bind, since they want new players to feel effective in the game but if they nerf farming spash further, then they'll piss off their power gamers who rely on farming (they'll make a big stink on the forums about how much money the spent and how they're quitting). I'd take 20 fresh new players spending $10 for SC than one self-important troll who dropped $200.

Being F2P, new business is the lifeblood of the game as older players already spent their limit and have no need of experience boost/subscriptions at lvl 100. The good news is that the power gamers will eventually fade out over time and move to the next thing to parasitically destroy. Hopefully new blood will come in and won't be deterred out.

So do you actually fight any tanks as a tank or do you just go after infantry and expect them never to retaliate?

Your requests aren't reasonable, you want SOE to change the game due to lack of skill. Learn to dodge AV while your in a vehicle; cert smoke screen if you're plagued by lock ons and learn to use cover, speed, and maneuverability for everything else. You can't just sit in the middle of an open field and expect to be immortal.

That would be true if tank spam wasn't so prominent and efficient.

Unless it's Esamir where you just add walls and call it a solution


I mean, THIS is the problem:



THIS is NOT the solution:



THIS is:



What most tank users do not see is the BAZILLION FRIENDLY TANKS AROUND THEM.

No one benefits from tank spam.
Defenders have to deal with a horde of armored taxis, thus needing "overpowered" rocket launchers.
Dedicated tankers feel bad about it and can't get anywhere close a AT turret

No one wants THIS:


But THIS...




You can't have AV nerfs if tank spam stays.

Isn't that the rub? Some people truly believe that this is how the game is meant to be played ("or else it would just be called Infantryside").

I don't see these kind of swarms as fun for anyone involved. Sitting around, mass farming a spawn room with 20 tanks for 3 - 6 minutes for a few measly kills doesn't seem worth it. While lobbing a dozen rockets to kill one tank out of 20 doesn't feel that gratifying either.

No this is not fun. But infantryside isn't really either. Just raise the cost of vehicles and refund certs already in vehicle cooldown. At 500-550 a player can really only pull 1 tank every hour, or if he/she wants 2 asap, 30 minutes between 2 tanks. Same with ESFs. We can avoid mass tank columns everywhere without turning tanks into dedicated sundy hunters.