Upcoming Tank and Liberator Changes

Well it's about time the mag got a nerf again. They nerfed the vanguard last in order to shut everyone up. And while the data i found is a few months old that is the only change since to my knowledge. This is despite the fact that the vanguard is the worst performing tank already. Also the mag is the by far best performing tank.

Been waiting for these tank changes for soooo long. Not sure about the velocity nerfs but I can't wait to be able to reliably shoot on the move.
Hopefully the magrider will be exempt from the velocity nerfs and have its elevation angle increased somewhat to ensure it doesn't lose too much of a mobility advantage.

I thing that is unclear is whether MBT the racer chassis will improve reverse speed now as well, or keep reverse speed stock.

This, and just about everything else Cougarbrit has said in this thread are spot on.

I don't know if I can keep giving money to a set of developers so out of touch with the "combined armed" aspect of their game. Do you even vehicle SOE?

What i would have done

• stabilization
• undo the lib armour buff, give libs a loud noice.
• rework the AH to a banshee with higher damage, smaller clip, better velocity, call it a railgun
• increase magrider main cannons (PC&FPC) velocity.
• buff the vanguards default cannons splash
• rework the duster to fire rapid bursts. essentially a two shot zephyr. things caught by the splash of both take more damage than a zephy, things caught by only 1 deal less.

see tanks arent reduced to fighting at 5m, libs dont become **** and its a lot less reading.

I think that lots of people are jumping to conclusions - in reality, we just need to give it a go. Overall i'd say many of the changes were very much needed.

My only concern is that if something is seriously OP / UP by some unforeseen consequence, that something happens about it QUICKLY - we've suffered the Mega-Lib for far too long and people start to quit because of the frustrations.

My biggest concern is the Magrider - it was Mega-buff on release, then nerfed to hell, then through various slow tweaks has come to something that is kinda viable (with a secondary gunner) against other MBTs.

Still - have to wait and see - and I'll play my alts to see how they all perform with the update. And - thankyou SOE...

Personally I don't think the tank changes are warranted the stabilisation thing drifts into the magrider domain while the range reduction hurt prowler most (guessing). But we'll see.

I think lib changes are very much needed. Those changes a few months back should not have been made and it's right that they are being reversed.

But I don't think range is the issue, I can put plenty of hits on a lib and it would simply take no or little notice. Against libs two things happen for infantry, either they die from fire from above or they die from boredom trying to kill it. The height that the lib flys at makes no difference as they normally do fly in the not-very-danger zone.

Personally I've have gone along the PS1 route (although not that far). Make the lib more fragile but also increase it's speed.

However, ultimately the issue is also one of base design and the problem is mostly about libs versus infantry. Most bases are very susptible to lib farming because of design luckily in my view great changes to bases are not needed just place a few more of those roof shields assets that already exist.

libs and ESF i don't fly usually, so i won't comment on that

what i will comment on tho is reduction of tank range basically

a tank is supposed to be a mid to long range platform, this is what a tank is usually about
to provide fire support over distances

the nr1 death cause of me in a tank used to be c4, simple, it wasn't other tanks, or rockets, or air, it was c4
it is still very high on the list, but since i learned to stay a bit farther away and position myself better, this helped a lot against it

and to make it more "exciting" for tanks now to be c4d, i should get closer again? nonsense
reverse speed increase isn't of much use, a tank shouldnt be able to dance around that much
tank battles over distances are quite more logical than some brawler type nonsense
but it leaves me baffled how this should be more fun

actually, this brawler type attack style, that was the place of the harasser iirc, before it was nerfed to death that is
but turning a medium to long range tank, what it should be, into a harasser pre nerf give or take, that is not the way imo

What I can't understand is why they don't go the PS1 route on the Lib. Dalton = AV bombs, Duster = AI bombs (instant death up to flak 2, 2 after that), Zeph. = hybrid dealing 40% AV and AI damage with 40% size of explosion (lets say 4x4m vs. 10x10m for Duster and 1x1m for Dalton) of the Dalton/Duster respectively with the hud view of them falling ala PS1. Can only be fired if he Lib is belly down +/- 3% tilting and call it a day. Dedicated A2G bomber with very clearly defined weapons and limited ability to defend itself (nose and tail gun if you pick those guns over more A2G power).

What the ****, don't!
I don't know where to start, but most of those changes are really bad!

You're giving prowler and vanguard a unique advantage of the magrider, but not the drawback that comes with it (fixed turret). So they have a stabilized turret they can use 360°, great.
You further nerf the velocity and drop? Is this a joke? It is already ridiculous on the mbt of the faction with the oh so godly no bullet drop trait. The projectiles of magrider main guns drop like freaking rocks, it has by far the worst velocity and drop.

Stop shafting VS.

What the Higby are you thinking. Don't nerf tank buster, buff garbage vector and spur. TB is not "low risk high reward" when it is used in any decently populated battle. If you're nerfing TB because it is used 90% of the time, then by the same logic you would wanna buff VS simply for the reason that they're underpopulated almost globally. It's nanites, neither is a valid reason, they are nothing more than indicators that something is wrong.
And what's wrong with the lib pilot gun is that TB is the only viable option.
And what's wrong with VS is **** like this. You shaft the Magrider in this update, destroying the balance further, driving more people away from VS so they can laugh those in the face who are loyal to purple and get some charge up pistol they can use with their other charge up guns. -.-'

Don't nerf Dalton further.

Only nerf lib resistance to tank shells.

Alright. I don't feel like reading all these 13 pages, but I'm just gonna share my opinion anyway. But first, English is not my first language, so please pardon if I make some mistakes.

First of all. The key to a successful lib trio, is a good communication between pilot and gunners. Now let me get this straight; if only 3 players communicated as well as we do in a lib, they'd take down that lib in seconds. For example: 3 Anihilator lock ons. 3 ESF's (as long as they're "average / good" pilots), 2 skyguards. 2 AA maxes, 1 sundy with 2 Basilik gunners,... All these are enough to take down a lib, or at least, to make it leave.

(I agree that the lib needs a little nerf, but this is WAY too much)

Your plan sounds like reducing the life expectancy of a liberator. You just don't understand; if a liberator dominate the skies, he deserves it. A liberator is usually a prior target for EVERYONE. It has multiples ennemies, from lock ons to skyguards, maxes and esfs. It has the power to survive all this, but it costs some skills, and I feel like it deserve its superiority. It doesn't deserve a nerf just because the ennemies can't communicate well enough.

About the Dalton nerf; the muzzle velocity is the only thing that makes the Dalton useful against flying ennemies. We all know a tailgunner can't deal with 2 or 3 ennemies at a time, so don't tell me the Dalton is not made to be used against flying ennemies, we need it as a tool to increase our survivability. Without this, esf's will simply be OP against libs. Same thing for the bulldog, if someone is good enough to hit an esf, he deserve to take that much damages...

Reducing the resistance to tanks? Because tanks weren't OP before the lib update, killing a lib in half a seconf just because it went onto a rock to have an angle on that lib?

In the end, I just feel like you're gonna ruin the overall gaming experience. A new case of "harasser-style" nerf. Another 6000 certs made useless. You're just gonna tweak a lot of values, and it's gonna end up as a big mess.

The whole game is just losing something, a bit of its punch, of its interest, or "taste"...

But yeah, we all know what you're doing with the players feedback, we've all seen that with the implant update. (Great update in my opinion tho).

Is it just me or did Magrider become the worst of the tanks? ... By a longshot.

Now it has no strenghts at all .. only weaknesses. Other tanks will be far superior in strafing too since they can blast "sideways" with their maximum speed for crying out loud. Everyone has balanced guns. We still have worst guns.

I really hope this will be taken into note to keep the magrider in play or otherwise it will be a massive VS nerf. That wouldnt do any good for the game.


All in all good changes overall if the magrider is changed accordingly.

ESFs are suppose to be deadly for you; that's the whole point. You should stand as much chance against an ESF as a MBT does against a Lib...

Buff X
X is now OP
Realize buffing X was a bad idea after 3 months
Nerf X into crap
Realize X is crap
Repeat

I get that feeling too, i wish i could transfer my certs to NC or TR.... The Phaseshift was such a dissapointment to me as a sniper... really looked forward to another gun to auraxium... i wont... its not fun at all to use... a straight pull BASR is just straight up 10* better... I can do 5 shots in one scope with hold breath 3, with faster bullets, no delay, higher damage... the cooling system on Phase is just a big nerf you can NEVER do more than 2 shots without reloading... it should atleast be unlimited shots in a row... (a crapweapon like Phaseshift can never be made OP!) Even if it always killed with 1 body hit you still would have to uncloak and charge the crap leaving you exposed and easy pickings for enemy snipers...

And now VS will get charge up guns, and other empires magrider advantages with their allready OP tank guns?

I presume the round velocity changes will not apply to the magrider as the main cannon tank rounds already go stupidly slowly?

Also, I presume corresponding upgrades will be given to magrider speed and strafing ability to compensate?

Otherwise this change is absurd as it removes the one advantage the Magrider actually had. Now, a vanguard will be able to catch and over-take a magrider while going backwards.

Also, I don't think the devs play magrider very much, as the idea of engaging at close range in a magrider is SUICIDE. I just don't do it.

Vanguard (with a competent driver) v Magrider at medium/close range = certain death for the magrider. The WHOLE POINT of the magrider is to be a ranged, fast moving gun platform - designed to hit and run while keeping the enemy AT RANGE.

Again, the only way to compensate would be to give the magrider vanguard level armour and vanguard level damage from the main gun.

If this goes through without magrider buffs, the vanu faction percentage will just drop to stupidly low levels. You might just as well erase the faction at that point.

I'm not sure if this change will have the desired effect your looking for.

The player base will have to relearn how to shoot with the weapons, not some thing I would be looking forward to redo.

If the accuracy is still the same, we still have long distance artillery shelling of bases, spawn points and stationary targets. Farming infantry was already more rewarding than engaging enemy vehicles, with these changes, in order to engage enemy vehicles, you have to close the distance to also be with in the thread range of infantry, I fear this would result in more long distance shelling and less vehicle vs vehicle engagements at closer range than desired.

I would rather see the projectile speed/gravity stay the same but have the accuracy decreased, so that tanks will have a better change hitting a vehicle from a distance and when engaged at closer range, the reduced accuracy shoot not be a problem for vehicles vs vehicle combat at all.

The reduced accuracy however will save infantry lives for less direct hits will be scored, especially from a distance and long range shelling of bases and spawn will make landing a shell on the welcome mat more based on luck than on skill.

Fixed. #RIPharassers

Liberator nerf: good (the buffs to it should never have happened), and very good that you're doing something about the noise. I'm not sure that weapon nerfs is the right approach though, I would have suggested a manoeuverability nerf. The problem with libs is that (with good gunners) they can beat up ESFs in the air, and that's because they can roll and Dalton you without falling out of the sky.

Libs should require ESF support to win air battles because they should be big, slow, high damage bombing aircraft, not because their damage output is weak.

Tank update: While turret stabilisation will benefit me on the NC, it does seem a bit like the Magrider is losing one of its unique advantages, and the range nerf hits its other one (strafe) as well. I think turret stabilisation should only damp the bouncing, not kill it completely. Is this out on PTS? We should go see what it feels like.

I'm also not convinced of the case for reducing tank effectiveness at range. Tank ranges are unreasonably short by RL standards already, and landing shots at range is already difficult.

ESF: Making sure lolpods are only ever used for infantry farming? Not sure about that, but then again when a clip of lolpods into a tank destroys it there's probably something broken. I'll reserve judgement of that until I see just how big the nerf is.

Nerfing Airhammer feels unnecessary, most Reavers I see are using one of the other guns, and the 'hammer is only effective at very close range. If you can get to hammering range you deserve the extra damage imo.

This is a terrible idea. I won't speak for tanking since I really don't partake often but the ESF and liberator changes are garbage. Since I primarily fly an ESF I will start there: Nerfing rocket pods... there is nothing more satisfying in the entire game than landing that perfect full mag into the rear of a tank to get the kill and get out before getting killed by the inevitable swarm of skyguards and bursters. This takes skill, luck, and a very good aim. Anything else and you are dead. This will completely remove that aspect from the game and with the huge number of liberator nerfs specified, this just means that there won't BE an air solution to these huge tank zergs.

Ok now to the lib changes. Are libs OP now? YES! WE SAID THEY WOULD BE BEFORE YOU RELEASED THE LIB UPDATE! Why the hell would I want to fly a lib if the primary weapon (called the tankbuster) was only moderately more effective against tanks? The vector is terrible and unused because it deals damage way too slowly and the Spur is gimmicky and not actually very effective either because of its velocity and dropoff. So what is the solution? Fix these underperforming weapons? No that would be silly, lets nerf the one thing that is doing its intended role of tankbusting! The belly gun changes all appear to be straight up nerfs on things that have been around since launch but the one I am least happy about is the Zepher. So it was an amazing gun at launch, no extraordinary. Then its reload speed and damage nerfed, and then its damage to vehicles. And now it is going to be a similar dalton? I have had both the zepher and the dalton for about a year now and thought both filled their intended roles well. What is the point of this change? So that the duster can now be OP so people will buy it? Also this whole post makes no sense. Libs not exposing themselves to risk? The tank buster requires almost CQC ranges to use and be effective.

What needs to change for the liberator
-Lib noise
-Resistances against tank rounds and for composite armor
-shredder damage vs infantry
-duster not sucking
-spur and vector given defined roles

Sorry about the wall of text but SOE's policy of handing out nerfs and buffs and hoping it all evens out is stupid. Don't nerf the things that are all faction and FUN. Instead buff the alternatives or the counters to those things. Like why not just buff tank top armor? That would means libs would need a low angle in order to deal maximum damage.

Slowing down tank projectiles? So Magrider projectiles will go backwards, right?