Too many heavy assaults

Am I the only player that doesn't see this?

Honestly, I see tons of infantry engineers and medic trains in every fight, way more often than I see heavies.

"I hate this argument. Heavy assault is not the only class meant for fighting. Medics, engineers, maxes, smg infils, and even light assaults have a place on the front lines of battle in this game. This does not justify your argument for the heavy being fine as OP."
Medics can put up shield bubbles, carry medkits, wear nanoweave, and pretty much be camping killing machines. If you get a few meatshields around you all you need to do is abuse .75x ads/hipfire, and dat AR damage per second with headshots. Your shields recharge very quickly, which makes this a great close-medium range and medium range tactic. Not to mention the classic healing aura medic, pretty much a mini heavy assault with better guns.

Engineers - AI mana turret, nuff said.

MAXes - Yep, HA is sooooo overpowered. It's not like MAXes don't get 80% resistance to small arms. I love how you bring up MAX like it's underpowered, you are truly something else.

SMG infils - use the element of surprise with EMP nades and extremely low TTK weapons. Use emp nades on a crowd, then kill them all with mid range bolt action.

Light Assault - If you can't use light assault effectively then you're bad, and have no place arguing. Jump down behind some poor sucker, dump buckshot or low ttk carbine rounds into his back, jetpack away. Then you wait for the medic, kill him, and kill the first sucker as he gets back up. The Light Assault's ability to ambush other infantry from literally anywhere in the game is ridiculous. You can get up to places where others simply can't, you think the element of surprise/elevation isn't an advantage? Why do you play FPS games?

"Honestly the problems I have with the heavy is the class gets too many good things. Rocket launchers would be awesome on any class. Lmgs would be good on any class. Shield would be good on any class. But these things are all on one class and are exclusive to that class. That is what bothers me about heavy assault."
I think reviving people would be awesome, so would putting down motion spotters that act as 5 minute legal ESP hacks. ARs > LMGs. LMGs are only good because of the shield, a heavy assault without his shield and LMG vs medic with AR - the medic wins. You can't argue this fact, ARs out damage LMGs greatly. Why do you think the most popular LMGs are either a quick reload, fast fire rate or simply fast fire rate? Shield would be awesome on any class, so would the ability to jetpack and the ability to cloak. Amazing in CQC and mid ranges, as much as the shield is.


Mag size is overrated, why do you think the Anchor, GD22S, Orion, MSWR are more popular than the Rhino, Polaris, or EM1? Damage output is what matters, reload speed > large mag sizes. Only ****ters will fire their entire ext mag into a doorway, thinking they are doing "suppressive fire" when in truth their COF has bloomed so much that the dude can simply walk in and headshot them. The Carv is only popular again because of its damage output, people would dump it in favor of the MSWR totally if it had Rhino stats. I would take ARs over LMGs anyday.

The Light Assault's jetpack gives him an advantage because he can ambush other classes and get an elevation advantage. The Infiltrator's cloak gives him the same advantage, at a lesser scale. The Heavy's shield gives him an advantage because he can tank more damage, but good luck using the shield to escape sticky situations in the same manner you'd use the cloak or jetpack.

Would we even still be having this discussion if EMP nades still drained all energy from class abilities??
I think that's the place to really start demanding answers from the Devs... on why that whole mechanic seems bugged now...

If it disables one class ability ( which is does last I checked with cloak ) then it should disable all class abilities ..

Ok, let's look at it from a different point then. If heavy would lose his advantage in infantry fighting, what would he be left with? What's the point of even naming it heavy assault? That he has overweight problem? This class has no utility apart from rocket spam, so we might as well give launchers to engineers as an alternative to ammo pack and get rid of HA altogether.

I won't even say that tank mines and AV Mana turret do better job at vehicle destroying than HA's most of the time anyways.

Now wait a minute, I think there's some merit to examining this discussion. I think we should, for the sake of discussion, compare the "PPA is OP" and "HA is OP". And after all, aren't the classes just different collections of weapons?

First off, let's look at why the PPA was deemed OP. There are a variety of reasons people thought it was, I'll try to break down the major arguments:

Too many pros and not enough cons
The PPA had some very good, effective traits on it's side such as fast reloads, large magazines, long range, accuracy, and splash damage to name a few. On the other hand it had very very few cons that reduced it's combat effectiveness. The solitary downside to the PPA was it's inability to damage vehicles.

Was used far more often than any other alternative
The PPA, by the numbers, was pulled well over twice the amount of times any other vehicle secondary for the VS.

Performed much better than any other secondary with the same role
The PPA, by the numbers, outperformed all other AI secondaries by a considerable margin. Even considering the sheer volume of PPA's being pulled potentially dragging down numbers, the PPA still achieved higher KPU/KPH/XP/min, you name it.

Performed far better at it's role than any other weapon performed at it's own, different role
A bit more difficult to quantify, but the PPA achieved much better results at AI than any AV weapon could at AV. Obviously AV kills are more sparse than AI kills, but taking a somewhat subjective look at PPA AI performance and other secondaries AV performance would suggest that the PPA was far better at it's job than any other secondary was at doing it's own job.


Of course the defenders of the PPA also put forth their own arguments.


Try using it yourself
Obviously being on the receiving end of any weapon sucks, but it's only half of the picture. Using any weapon properly requires insight on it's myriad of quirks that may not be seen through the eyes of the people getting blasted away. However this argument didn't directly counter any point above.

It's an AI weapon, it's supposed to be good at it
The implied, hidden discussion here is that the alternatives suck and need buffing. A possibility to be sure, but ignores the argument that the PPA not only outperformed other AI secondaries, but other weapons in different roles as well.

Just learn to counter it
The argument here was quite encompassing. It included, but wasn't limited to:
Avoid being hit by the PPA
Kill the Magrider/Harasser with weapons available, usually AV turrets or Rocket Launchers
Expend resources to kill the Magrider/Harasser, be it Tankbuster Lib, C4, another Tank, MAX, etc.
However, in it's simplicity, the argument was: Get good, anyone can kill the PPA with enough strategy


So in the end, the PPA was deemed OP and the mighty, all powerful hands of Higby struck it down from it's mighty place. Too much, maybe, but that's another discussion.




Now if you'll permit an extension to this already long post, I'll compare the arguments for and against the Heavy Assault.

Too many pros and not enough cons
The Heavy Assault has access to Rocket Launchers, Shield ability, LMGs, SMGs, Battle Rifles, etc. The solitary downside of the HA that HA players must overcome is a movement speed debuff while the shield is activated.

Is used far more than any alternative
Difficult to say for sure, since the metrics aren't forthcoming, but looking at competitive battles like Server Smashes, the HA is used far, far more than any other class.

Performs much better at it's role than any other class at their role
While there is still some discussion about exactly what the roles of the classes should be, it can be said that the HA scores higher than any of them and is far better at what it does than any other class. For example if the HA's role is being a front line soldier and the Light Assault's role is being a flanker, the HA does much much better at that job than the LA is at his, be taking a look at the effectiveness of each strategy. I won't delve deep, but the strategy required to get a good flank on a Light Assault's part will rarely produce the same results as a Heavy Assault going about his business.


And now for the arguments in support of the HA

Play it yourself
The same point as before, the hope is to eliminate bias and complete the picture for those who are on the receiving end of the HA. As before, doesn't directly argue against anything.

It's a 'fighter' and it's supposed to be good at it
As before, fails to recognize that, if the classes are supposed to have very separate, obvious roles (debate ongoing), then the HA still outperforms the others at their own supposed roles. Requiring then that the other classes get buffed according to their roles. If we want to have equal classes with different roles, then we need to make sure that (for example) a Flanking LA is as effective as a Front Line HA. Currently however this is not the case.

Just learn to counter it
Commonly cited counters to the HA:
Other HA
OHK weapons
Skill and strategy, higher than that of the target HA (Get good)


Examining the PPA argument and the HA argument, I find some eery similarities. Just thought I'd take a closer look is all. And sorry for the long post.

The way I see it, and it's just personal opinion really, is that there aren't really 'roles' to the different classes (because if that was the case, then yeah, having a class who's 'role' was killing and eliminating it would be pretty bland) but playstyles.

So the HA: Brute force playstyle (Big Mag LMGs/firing lines, Rocket Launchers, Tanky)
LA: Flanking (Powerful surprise attacks, unusual angles, hopefully a combat tool someday etc.)
Infil: Stealth (Precision targets, unseen predator, tracking darts and hacked vehicles from behind)
Medic: Sustain (Medi-grenades, Revives, heals, the works)
Engineer: Fortification (Defensive turrets, mines, maybe one day some real shield deployables)

So each class is equally effective at combat but does it with different style. Right now however the HA is so much more effective at combat than the rest. So 'nerfing' the HA wouldn't devalue it as long as there is a place for the brute force, in-your-face playstyle. But of course having this 'playstyle' kind of class balance would require some pretty heavy additions and refocusing.

This game is about getting as many bodies onto a point room while depriving the enemy of their bodies. Medic plays a huge role in this. Since this game is about what I mentioned, every class plays the medic's role. See what I'm saying here? Every class obviously gets tools to kill others, but heavy gets the added benefit of the shield. This is the heavy's job, so the medic can revive/heal and the engie can repair/lay ammo, and the inf/LA can flank. Whenever I manage to kill a non-heavy or heavy who backstabs me, I check their KDR in my stat tracker. Usually below 1 with a few exceptions ranging from 1-1.5. This means that players who know how to aim and can kill more than die (so 1+ kdr players) will mostly kill me but the large amt of ****ters will die when they backstab me. This is also because I score headshots.

Heavy is not "so much more effective", when will you understand. Heavy Assault is a linear, simple class that does well but will not be as much of a pain in the *** as a light assault or infiltrator is. The Heavy Assault is the best 1v1 dueling class, but that doesn't mean **** when the dude is shooting you from a spire or on top of a roof, or when he uncloaks behind you and empties his smg into your back, followed up by a knife.

heeheehee... just reminded me of the other day when I noticed an enemy SMG'er thought he was being clever by ambushing people from deep cloak. I had bandolier so I just saturation bombed his location and you shoulda seen the deer in the headlights look on his face when his cloak suddenly had no energy and 3 pissed off NC were staring him right in the face. Poor fella... What I wouldn't give to see that look on an HA's face once again.

ive actually quit playing heavy and started playing infy. lets just say i get about two times as many kills during a regular game session and keep a KD of 3 rather than the 1.4ish that i usually do with HA.

also about the only thing that kills me as infy is the HA. take that for what you will.

That's nonsense, Heavy Assault is ridiculously broken and any 2 kdr player will get a 10 kdr if he plays Heavy Assault and uses OP Orion ADADAD pls nerf x3.

It is, quantifiably, more effective at combat than any other class. Highest amount of kills, any kind. Including AA or AV or AI. Just because you get killed by an SMG infiltrator or a perched light assault doesn't mean they're more effective at combat. For every time another class is killed by an Infil or a Light Assault, they're killed by a HA 5 times.

Well, I really wonder why you would state my actual perfomance as being "pwnage" worthy or being at "1337 skillzevel, my potato computer doesn't allow me to perform to anything I can imagine being that "good". But let's do it your way

No more heal for the medic, gotta be on the same level as the other classes who can't do it. That damn healing/revive crutch thing gotta go.

No more jumpjet for the LA, gotta stay on the same level (litterally) as the other classes who can't fly. That damn positionnal advantage crutch gotta go.

Let's also remove cloak, as the other classes can't either. That damn visibility advantage cructh gotta go.

No more ammo pack nor turrets, got to be on the same level. That damn infinte ammo and support crutch shenanigan gotta go.

No more dual weapons and dmg reduction on the max, gotta be on the same level... that damn damage dishing and tanking gotta go.

Of course not everybody carry emp.
They mostly carry frags that actually kills you instead of removing the standard shield and hud. But it's mitigated by flak armor, which emps don't care about.
Personnally I enjoy the emp when I play infiltrator with an smg (oh dirty me ) I love running around throwing those to soften my targets or support a push. Really shines when there are enemy mines too

But seriously, calling a 5 bullets temporary buff an "iWin" thing is really a far stretch of imagination. And a really creative one. It should really stop. The versatility is there for everybody. Everybody got an option againts tanks (C4 is not heavy exclusive), everybody can heal themselves (Medkits are not heavy exclusive. Medics can stack it better with their AoE). AV effectiveness varies and depends on the classes roles. There's really a serious overdramatisation of the state of the HA shields.

In fights, you actually do lose the shield or a good chunck of it every firefight if the enemy actually shoots at you and has the ability to aim and land bullets on you. They can even kill you even if you activate it. Because it's not an invincibility trigger.
Otherwise, the shield would have been useless anyway if your enemy misses all his shots... and/or he suffers from horrendous hitreg issues. And/or lag. It happens to me, the combination of all three or two or just one. I can and do aim very badly at times.

For the durations : (maxed level)

Adrenaline : 14 secs full recharge with no kills (to go back to the 700 dmg absorbtion possibility) : 60 secs.

NMG : same as adrenaline. full recharge (back to 700 dmg pool) 45 secs.

Resist : 10 seconds max level. recharge 17 sec

Well, with this in mind now, I'll go with your temp disable only 10 seconds instead of draining the thing sounds better indeed. My suggestion is way harsher with draining the overshields lol. 10 sec ability stun for all. Let's see how it goes.
I should've checked before

http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Adrenaline_Shield
http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Resist_Shield
http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Nanite_Mesh_Generator

ohh yeah? prove it. make a VS play HA with the orion and post your player page so we can see your vastly improved kd ratio.

wow the most played infantry class has the most kills? how strange. its almost as strange as people with the most time spent in vehicles have the most time as an engineer.

I was responding to his reply, he was implying that the HA wasn't the best at combat.

And you see absolutely no logical problem with your statement, that HA should be brute force tanky class but at the SAME TIME as effective in fighting infantry as other classes. You really don't see and issue here?

Ok, so let me tell you - It doesn't make sense. It's like saying this car is made for speed, but had the same speed as all the other cars. It woudl just mean it's concept is broken, now doesn't it.

Btw, as I said before out-or-render-range AV mana abuse and mines make engineer better at engaging vehicles. Not to mention in theoretical environment HA can destroy 5 vehicles (one rocket per Flash), and engineer can destroy infinite number of them (All types).

Doesn't matter. Just because the Heavy is played the most, it doesn't really mean ****.

AV - Engineers, light assaults are also well kitted for this. Engies with their AV turrets, and tank mines. Light Assaults with their jetpack used with the C4.

AI - While the Heavy Assault is meant to be the brutal, 1v1, up front class, the LA and inf are the flanking classes. You posted this yourself yet I think you're having a hard time with the mental osmosis. I'll take a defensive battle for example. There are a bunch of guys holding a point, what do you choose? If you want to be one of the cannon fodder downstairs, you choose Heavy Assault. If you want to be able to possibly dismantle this point hold yourself, you will choose Light Assault. You can harass the point holders, kill their engineers and medics and be gone before they can react. Sure, they will start predicting you and watching their backs, but this only takes their focus off of the stairs leading down to the first floor. With the medics and engies dead, the rest can push up. Light Assaults are also extremely well suited for tower stomping, whether you're attacking or defending. But of course you ignore all of this for your "BLAH BLAH WAHHHH HEAVY OP >.<" because he kicked your *** in a 1v1.

im being sarcastic. anyways my stats from my nc to my vs did improve vastly, but only because i got better .