Too many heavy assaults

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by VonStalin, Dec 30, 2014.

  1. z1967

    Well of course it isn't, but its the best at what is easily 50% of your average gameplay, and therefore that makes it the best class. Flanks close up as population increases. If there is no push to maintain ammo and revives does pretty much nothing other than boost your cert count. There will always be enemies to kill, and by now you know which class is very good at that.
    • Up x 2
  2. sL360

    All heavy assaults do anyway is cover up the glorious Assault Rifle Medic Master Race.

    1. Go Medic
    2. Get T1 Cycler
    3. Aim for head.
    4.????
    5. CERTS.
    • Up x 2
  3. WarmasterRaptor

    Draining it as in emptying the ability, setting the charge to zero. So it has to recharge, like the normal shields.

    10 seconds is way too much because nothing in the game affects players negatively for such a long time.

    SOE won't create another class.

    Your "medium" class would be considered even worse now that you combine the AR and the RL... no need for the shields with those weapons...

    Sprint speed / stamina is something that I'd like to see, for better realism/immersion but doubt it'll ever be implemented.
    • Up x 1
  4. REZistance

    Yeah, you see, I don't look at it as a 'negative' so much as just putting the HA on the same equal footing as everyone else as far as hit points goes, for 10 seconds. Let me ask, how long does a fully certed iWin shield last for? 10 seconds? 8? (I really have no idea, I don't play HA) Is it too much to ask to be able to turn off their shields for the same amount of time? I don't think so.

    And you have to remember this.. not everyone is carrying EMP's. It's not like you would be constantly losing your shields every fight you get into. It would give Stalkers and frontline Infils some much needed usefulness. Those classes really need some way to be more useful in this game and here's one small way.

    From my experience, in any given battle whether it's small (1-12) or large (48+), the vast majority of players are HA's. So you multiply and combine all of the versatility this class has to offer (great weapons including RL's, C-4, the ability to heal themselves, iWin shields etc.) and you have a situation where maybe a handful of HA's (if the EMP was well thrown and the HA's were all clustered together) would be effected at any one time. I think the class, with all of it's amazing pluses, can withstand something like this.

    You wouldn't have to worry about the EMP's during one of those rounding a corner 'oh shi-' moments when you suddenly come face to face with an Infil, because he'd never have enough time to change to the grenade and then throw it at you.. so it's use for the purpose of disabling your shields would be mainly under certain situations.

    My last little bit here. It may come across pointed but hey, we're all big boys here. With all of the great things HA's have at their disposal that make them the pinnacle of combat, and with all of your pwnage 1337 skillz, do you mean to tell me that you're afraid of being put on the same equal level as everyone else in terms of hit points for 10 seconds? Are you willing to admit by saying 'no' to this, that the iWin shield is in fact the crutch everyone says it is?
  5. Xasapis

    There are people who whine constantly about MAXes. Then there are people who go out of their way to hunt said MAXes and look at the whiners weird. Same principle applies here, you may think your complain about heavies is justified, but people deal with them successfully every day, regardless of class.

    The problem is that the people who complain about heavies are trying to take them head on. Then wonder how life is unfair when they play to the enemies strength. People who don't constantly move also complain about how sniping infiltrators are broken and one shot kill people, while those who are moving constantly really don't see much of an issue.

    The whole thing breaks down to the simple fact that people want to beat their opponents regardless of how badly they play. It's not them that they are bad, it's the enemy class, enemy weapons, hit detection (regardless that it affects everyone equally), connection, bad computers, anything and everything but them. Too bad, because admitting to oneself that somebody is bad is the first step for self improvement.
    • Up x 1
  6. REZistance

    So this is your actual response to my idea. I'm bad. I need to 'get gud.'

    I love how you make assumptions about how I play the game. That's about the extent of a response as you're going to get from me if all you can do is say 'get gud.'

    edit - and you'll have to excuse me, it's 1:36 am and I need to get some sleep, so pardon me if I don't continue this conversation until tomorrow..
  7. PurpleHIppo

    Nerf heavys = Buff maxes and other vehicles = More ****** gameplay

    Light assaults are flankers
    Engis are support
    Medics are support
    Infils are infiltrators/snipers
    Heavys are the grunts, the backbone of the armys, the go to frontline class

    If you think engis/LAs/medics should be on equal footing with heavys in a head on fight you need to think again, if you get the jump on the heavy and still lose you did something wrong and then you do something different next time.
    • Up x 1
  8. Xasapis

    I'm not good either, if that is what annoyed you. I know that if I use the most direct route somewhere, I will most likely bump into a MAX or heavy. I know that if I stay still, I will probably get sniped. I know that if I linger out in the open, I will probably die from a vehicle. I've learned these lessons the painful way, by doing the same mistakes over and over again. Well, up until the point where I started looking at how people better than me tackle similar situations. I'm still an awful infiltrator, despite my efforts.

    The thing is, most of us are not particularly good, if not downright awful. The easiest thing is to blame the environment, the hardest is to adapt. In another thread I said that the best weapons are what most people are doing well with, the best players are those who adapt to any weapon they are using. Is adapting the game to the way each of us want it to be? You can see the effort on numerous threads here and on reddit all the time. People that want a certain playstyle, play the blame game on others trying to garner sympathy and shift the whole game towards their favorite playstyle. ESF are too powerful, ESF are too weak, tanks are too powerful, tanks are cert pinattas, C4 is too strong, C4 is not enough, MAXes are too strong, MAXes are paper thin and so on. Everyone seems to have an agenda and funnily enough, despite the game being open to all playstyles, they try to pigeonhole everyone else to very specific ones. Vehicle lovers promote them, infantry lovers want vehicles weak or banished and so on ...

    Not to mention that the whole nerfing circle is a slippery slope. Nerf the heavies, then the MAXes start prevailing, nerf the MAXes next, the medics start dominate, nerf the medics, the infiltrators start dominate and so on in a never ending circle of making everything tastless and bland.

    Did you know there was a nerf the engineer thread because, apparently, it's not good that they are the most played class and are the almost exclusive vehicle driver class?
    • Up x 3
  9. nehylen

    I don't find that argument pertinent: you don't always pick your fights, a lot of PS2's generic buildings are made so that you're standing rather close to the opponent you might meet. For instance those buildings with 2 symetric staircases to the first floor, with another set of symetric staircases down from the roof and a terrasse.
    There's lots of situations where you can indeed just get out fast, like if you got shot at in a sprint next to exit/cover, but there's also a lot where you can't. That's the nature of the game.
    It's not like the HAs have a big sign above their head saying "don't try me" like MAXes do with a special minimap icon, specific sounds for their footsteps, easily identifiable sounds from their weapons, or any permanent penalties from being a HA (slow acceleration+big model for MAXes).
    Sometimes you can recognize the distinct sound of a Jackhammer, Gauss SAW, MCG, Orion etc... so you know before you stumble upon them, but that won't always be the case.

    In the example i gave your earlier in this thread (HA whose overshield and shield i've eaten through, yet i lost), what annoys me is that there's less or nothing to learn from it. I'm 100% ok with being bested by a finer player: i can work on improving my aim/mental state i'm ok with being taken by surprise: i should've check that roof or that blurry corner, that door for a mine etc; i'm ok with being one-shot by a sniper in a open area: i should've stuck to cover or zigzaged better.
    But in the case of that kind of HA face-off: "i should just get out of the way of the most played class in the game" has a bad ring to it.

    I'll also add that with the shotgun balance in its current - pretty bad - that HA overshield completely ruins pump action shotguns on other classes, including underbarrel shotguns options.
  10. Xind

    Pump Actions are still extremely effective against heavies even with Overshield. Assuming you didn't ambush them and one shot them before they activated a shield, two shots without hitting the head will kill them within your standard range.

    And that's just it, if you're scared of running into a heavy around the corner...play a heavy? Why are you playing a Medic or Engineer with no allies to support? Why are you a light assault walking on the ground where the almighty Heavy gods tread? If you're an infiltrator...why did you engage a target you suspected you could not best instead of laying an explosive trap for him and luring him into it?

    The lesson to learn is not to keep making the same mistake over and over again...or stick with allies instead of expecting to win 1v1s against something you know has a distinct advantage in such a situation. Or just carry an autoshotgun and saw through him and his shield before he can kill you.
    • Up x 2
  11. Shanther

    Something interesting to note about this thread is that the OP was complaining about HAs turning on him after they got shot. On average the only people who can do that with any sort of regularity are top players. HA on its own isn't OP top players make it look that way. That said top players will make anything look OP.
    • Up x 2
  12. Xasapis

    Most played class in the game is Engineer. Then Medic. Then Heavy.It seems that Heavies are a lot, because the likelyhood somebody will die to them is higher.

    Now that we got that out of the way, my most played class is also Engineer. And not the vehicle type. Which is why my headshot bias is so high. My friends that play infiltrators as well tell me that their headshot bias is high as well. In general, playing from a position of disadvantage on certain situations helped me as a player.

    Btw, if you didn't kill a heavy with this netcode delay with a 1-shot weapon like a pump action, it's more likely not the overshield.

    On a final note, we are given full range of options for a reason. Are you outside on a long range fight? Pull an infiltrator. Are there no medics around? Pull one. You can't find ammo or there are no engineers repairing MAXes? Pull an engineer. Is this a base where you can ambush vertically? Pull a Light Assault. Everything else is covered? Pull a heavy.

    Why don't you? Why should the game adapt to the player, when the game gives the tools needed to adapt to any situation.

    Or to give you another perspective. The enemy pulls too much air and kills you. Do you think the healthy approach is to come to this forums and complain about how OP the air is, or merely pull the extremely effective in game anti air and clear the air presense from the entire hex? Should we adapt to the situation at hand, or nerf the game into such a way that caters into our specific playstyle?
    • Up x 3
  13. VonStalin

    Started new TR character today (not even NC with god saw!). Played with heavy only.
    I am not above average player, but with BR1 done KD 2 as infantry easily..
    Sometimes it feels like playing with max suit. I hear cloaker uncloacking behind me, he starts shooting me, I hit F, turn around and kill him. Still have 50% of HP left.. It's just like "what were you trying to do?.. why do you even..?"
    Going around rock, facing LA face to face.. Hit F, kill, still 100% left. He had not a chance.. NOT A CHANCE.
    Going inside building where 96+ fight. Hit F take RPG take a frag, run outside, reload, hit F run inside take a frag, run outside @repeat..
    So many times where it felt that I should have died. But I just hit F and keep killing with 100 ammo in the clip.
    Only one downside - boring style of gameplay.
    Shield is really way too strong. While having RPG and such good weapon it is overkill to have such strong shield too.
    https://www.planetside2.com/players/#!/8255971480326476465/killboard
  14. Allin

    That's how it should be. If you would do 1KD with heavy tradng kills one for one it woudl mean you play the class wrong.
    Your effective health is about twice of any other. Think of it, twice the health, 2K/D. Seems it's working as intended then...
  15. VonStalin

    Good for new players. Good class to start with. But if player knows the map and the game it feels a bit not fair, too much of advantage in ones hands.
  16. Jackplays17

    What the F*CK! without revives YOUR Heavy would have to go spawn all the way back at your sunderer!
    • Up x 1
  17. FnkyTwn

    If anything, it's Engineers that are overpowered.

    In every Tank, in every Harasser, in every Liberator, in every Sunderer, in every Fighter, in every Lightning...

    .. THERE'S ALWAYS AN ENGINEER!
    • Up x 3
  18. nehylen

    For reference, the fastest PA shotgun may shoot every 0.75s, the 2nd gen one and the UB attachment are even slower to reload. At the range required for them to be effective (OHK), hipfire for a LMG is a non-issue and theoretical TTK is not really theoretical anymore (somewhere around 0.5~0.6s depending on damage model).
    On the attachment i switch back to auto the instant i've fired the first shot and while the delay is not too long in absolute, it's quite long when you're taking fire.
    With slugs equiped anything less than 50% headshot rate with PA shotguns is even worse.

    As i said above there are chance encounters you can't avoid, on which in theory a shotgun wielder should thrive. The idea that it's necessarily a L2P issue (as i feared, it came to that) because i didn't get the jump on the other guy is daft. Even in a situation where the guy didn't overshield before the shot because netcode attacker advantage or whatever else, with the 1st gen PA shotgun or the UB attachment, that may imply that 100% of the pellets hit depending on whether there's nanoweave 4~5 or not, or 9hits with 2 headshots, things like that.
    In that situation knifing/switching to the sidearm might do the trick on any other class, but with a HA unless it's a newbie or rather bad player, the odds are against you.

    Regarding the class switch, the PS2 you're describing (why are you playing this class this way rather than HA?) assumes all possibilities are always open at any given time. Sure in a 48v48 and above with several sundies, anybody's free to switch, supports don't need and shouldn't expose themselves at choke points, there's ammo sacks and medics everywhere, and it's all textbook tanks and supports like in a mmorpg.

    Smaller battles? Not necessarily. I mostly play supports myself because as a HA/LA/Inf i feel there's always a lack of competent medics or engineers in those. While there's certainly plenty of medics and engineers in a big zergfest like in biolabs in prime time, rarely find myself there (it really bores me).
    In smaller scale battles supports are much less frequent, positions are more easily lost, and i've often found myself out of ammo or saw an offense stopped because no one could rez or heal/repair them. Rarely i've also stumbled upon the exact opposite: supports fully supporting like they would in a zergfest, like wanting to rez someone in a zone under heavy fire and being completely oblivious of their own survival/guns/cover potential.

    In effect i find myself often unable to deal with MAXes and vehicles, but i'm more likely to find HAs apt to do just that as long as i keep them alive or ammo-fed in that context. I'll also add that in my opinion if you don't face some hardships and always resort to a change of classes to deal with them, you can't really progress. Getting the f out of a hairy situation is also a skill.
    So of course i may rightfully be blamed for sticking with a class inadequate even when i fully have the opportunity to do so and no shortages of supports. Generally though, my likely counter-pick is AV/AA MAX, which are more effective solutions to those problems.

    I don't know if there are statistics for class representation, and i'm convinced that engineers are the most played because of vehicles. Still, i'm quite surprised at the thought that medics are second, though obviously i'm biased due to my own practice of the game.
    • Up x 1
  19. CapEnTrade

    PPA is different.

    The heavy assault is a class everyone can play and can be countered by playing as one or using your brain and playing as a strategist and not a zombie.

    Go home.
    • Up x 1
  20. VonStalin

    Would be more fun if every class would be a bit more equal on the field. Heavies are a bit off at the moment. not even touching maxes...