[BUG] Tomcats or A to A lock-on

I agree, ESF handling needs to be revamped. Both skill ceiling and skill floor needs to be lowered. No other vehicle in Ps2 or any other video game is as non-intuitive as the ESF.

First easy move is to allow customization of pitch, yaw and roll buttons to either keyboard or mouse.

Magazine sizes, cof and rof need to be significantly increased across the board. Nose guns should be like high rof miniguns, not precise combat rifles like they are now. This should bring the skill floor up, letting new pilots aim easier.

The current state of ESFs is broken. Almost no one wants to invest the time needed to figure out hover jousting and for good reason. The minimum time required to learn an ESF is ludicrously high, leaving this area of gameplay to just a few elite pilots, which is a shame.

So I am twisting your words from the the quote you provided as:

1. I have owned tomcats for months now probably even over a year, so your first statement is invalid.

you are providing no feedback on your experience on the tomcats, the only thing that you are informing me in this point is that you bought them and have had them for over a year. Not your experience of using them or how many times they were used by you..

AGAIN that was a REPLY to YOUR STATEMENT of ME NOT OWNING THEM

As stated above by Mahou Fairy you already have a highly expensive vehicle that is practically paper with wings.

I will break your quote into 2 parts:

1) Correct me if I'm wrong since I don't drive a tank that often (mostly due to the prowler design that infuriates me) but I would assume you mean an indirect explosion caused by the tank shell...so it would be safe to assume a large portion of Sci-Fi games with a tank that would require the infantry to have shield...such as halo being one of those games...

2) so because no other vehicle in PS2 has 1 primary and 1 secondary weapon ( <---not 2 main weapons) every PS2 pilot should now fly a Sci-fi WW1 plane with Vtol, and completely ignore the planetside counterparts they were based out of....and no longer have the capabilities of attaching missiles to the wings....cuz of nanties... I hope you realise the ESF created for PS2 are basically the reaver loadout and the wasp loadout in one. If you are expecting to reduce its capabilities to that of the mossie in PS1, you are basically asking us to pilot a scout craft. So now we get a 350 cost vehicle that is paper thin and is meant for scouting, picking off low health liberators, tanks, and infantry with our nose cannon. This sounds more as a we don't have, so you should not have it either kind of reasoning. Funny since I never came across this on the planetside 1 forums.

Hell I can do that too.

THAT is a REPLY to YOUR ACCUSATION of ME TWISTING YOUR WORDS

I agree that Flares should be made better or Fire Suppresion should be made worse. The ongoing Power Level dominance of Fire Suppression is a balance joke.

You typically cannot rely on Speed to run away successfully from A2AM. Fleeing pilots is one of the areas in which A2AM works best, and why Scythe Gank Squads often rely on them in order to deal with prey that runs (cause the Scythe is too slow to ensure it can keep up).

If you get A2A Lock, your best bet depends on what's going on around you:
1) If you are near a non-distracted Ally Air swarm (or Active heavy Ally AA), you can move to them and then locate and Q-Spot your attacker. The Ally Air (or Active heavy AA) will eat them alive before A2A Missles can finish you.
2) If you are near extreme terrain, you can try to use breaking of line-of-sight to reset their lock. NOTE: you can't just break it for a split second, or their lock will just stutter but resume. Also, if they are close and good enough, they can keep up with you and keep the lock on.
3) The most frequent solution is to slow to hover, turn and locate them, and then close to nullify the A2A. Literally flying close and right past them so that they lose line-of sight (breaking and turning hard as you pass to stay close). You'll often eat 1 A2A Missile before you can locate them and close distance, but you can use Fire Suppression to offset that hit. Contine to keep close range, and keep doing passes by them if the A2A lock warning activates during the duel. Mix in your own Nose Gun attacks as you face them. If they are running a close range Nosegun like the Air Hammer or Vortek, unload Rocket Pods at them if they try to close face-to-face distance to right in front of you, otherwise their Nosegun will simply outrace yours. If they're good pilots and they can dodge your flyby and reverse well and keep lockon, then it's a solid pilot and you're gonna lose (so try for #2 above if you can). If you get attacked by their friend or their friend gets you in A2A lock, then it's a hunting pack and you're gonna lose (so try for #1 or #2 above if you can), or sometimes you can turn and run the other guy down and they lose their nerve and bolt: lotta inexperienced pilots will turn and bolt if you rush them or do a fancy move, even if they have you, cause they panic and fear you and give up and run.

Situational awareness is also HUGE. Find where Ally Air is and stick in that area. Look for enemy Air at a distance and Q-Spot them and back off. Be aware of where enemy and ally ground forces are concentrated, and where enemy bases with lots of AA Base Turrets are. The more wary you are moving into Air Space, the more advantages you have, the more you cut down on dangers, and the better off you will be.

If you find an Ace or Gank Squad locking down the Air in one area, then either move to elsewhere on the Continent or spawn as an HA with Annihilator and chase them off (if you have a base with good line-of-sight to do it). If they're locking down the whole Air on that Continent, then switch Continents or switch to their Faction.

I fly solo almost all the time: by myself much of the time, and at times flying mixed in with other Air I run across. I almost never use A2AM, and my current ESF Loadout across all 2 Factions is Default Nosegun, Rocket Pods, Fire Suppression, Stealth, and Racer Air Frame.

If you find an Ace or Gank Squad locking down the Air in one area, then either move to elsewhere on the Continent or spawn as an HA with Annihilator and chase them off (if you have a base with good line-of-sight to do it). If they're locking down the whole Air on that Continent, then switch Continents or switch to their Faction. Whether they use A2AM or not, most Gank squads can lock you down.

There are plenty of ways that PS2 Devs could "fix" the Gank Squad issue, but they're not fixing it. Like many things in this game, you have to rely on a player workaround: switch Continents/Servers for the duration, or switch to their Faction.

Believe it or not, A2AM and Coyote are a tool for the worse pilots to help them stand a better change vs. better pilots. If they took away A2AM and Coyote, it would be even more of a slaughter in the Air. As Aces and Gank squads would have an even bigger advantage. Though maybe Scythe Aces and Ganks squads would struggle more because the Scythe is so much slower than Reaver and Mossie.

As Jawarisin said, it's extremely rare to see actual Ace Pilots use Lockons. And, to be clear, for Ace Pilots it doesn't matter if they use Lockons or not in terms of the outcomes of their engagements.

Usually you see mid-skill level and lower pilots using Lockons. Often mid-skill level pilots in Gank Squads are the most predatory, often hunting deep into enemy territory. And they are definitely lethal.

lol, if you're trying to escape and the other guy has a2a lockons you're an idiot. HOWEVER If you want to evade them for your auto heal and you can fly decently fly around the vehicle spawn underneath biolabs, Ive gotten an idiot to A. Crash following me B. Get confused as f*** and I just fly away C. They let me heal and I come back at them and most likely kill them.

Once again if the enemy has more people than you you're gonna have a bad time (generally).

I have very few problems with A2A lockons on connery since if you're smart you use your flares initially and then charge the mother****er with your guns/coyotes which makes these kind of people piss their pants. I may not win all the time but when I do this I'll be dogfighting with my guns instead of missiles. And tbh I pull lockons as they're more effective for killing libs and the occasional moron who trys flying away from my mossie/reaver.

Oh, good to know that you have so much experience..
Lets compare - your BR 86 Mosquito stats:
Score 379,133
Kills As 817
Time Used 48h 40m
Vehicle Kills As 330

Lets see stats for my BR55 Mosquito
Score 723,052
Kills As 1,375
Time Used 74h 50m

Vehicle Kills As 709

Hm, maybe my other char has stats closer to you for an ESF?
Score 2,641,670
Kills As 4,344
Time Used 13d 1h
Vehicle Kills As 2,060
I dont think you are qualified to make such statements here. Second - there are places that offer no protection - think north of Indar or even Esamir. Hossin, Amerish or east Indar is a different story. Maybe if they fixed lockons so that they can't go around objects when the rocket doesn't have line of sight on you it would be ok, but right now - it's BS.

WAIT..WAIT. WAIT...Woooaahhh....hold on a minute....

This thread was created to "The bigger problem is to new players who want to start flying, get upset because they cant do anything in the air but get locked on all the time and blown up within their first 5 minutes"

yet here we have a player having only roughly 5 days worth of Air time and he is not qualified to make "such statements" because your other character has more experience combined than that of his two accounts........

What?!!!

Yes you have more playtime, congratz man yeah and ration wise we're not that different you have a higher kph, I main tank and still fight just fine in the sky shooting down aces and what not. I frankly dont care if youo kill more people than me in an esf, mainly because I make my kills in support of ground troops. Which in turn will recipricate and help me out.
Teamwork is OP and if you have friends ask them to help you instead of being a skyknight and trying to lone wolf through a teambased game.

I think what's he saying works for the most. It echoes what I said (though he uses Coyote which I typically don't: his Coyotes are better for A2A than my Rocket Pods typically, but my Rocket Pods fits my playing both A2G and A2A)

I'm not an Ace, but it's what works for me best so far.

I agree Gank Squads Aces farming deep inside enemy territory are bad for the game (on many levels and for many players beyond just ESF/Air players) and it should be nerfed. They can start by adding Perma Air Radar that makes any Air Vehicle be perma displayed on Mini-Map and Main Map if it moves more than 1 Hex into enemy Air Space.

Whats really fun is if you compare the Vkph, mine is only down by .005 (his .15 compared to my .145) so he kills more infantry than air anyways... And I spend most of my time in air flying to destinations where I ditch and pull tanks anyways...

Oh that is funny I actually read his post wrong, I assumed he was combining your TR and NC experience together. You actually have roughly 3.5 days worth of air time. Which would pretty much consider you still as a new player to the air game.

PS1 is a different game than PS2. Your apples to orange analogies can run on forever. It's not a legitimate argument. The fact that a "OHK golden gun exists in golden eye" is not a legitimate argument for it to exist in PS2. We are talking in the context of PS2.

Nobody believes you about the ESF being neutered without a missile bay. All the elite pilots want only noseguns & extended burners. Nose guns are the #1 option for Libs, because everything else forces you to get too close and risk getting daltoned/walkered. As for infantry, banshee & light ppa are just as good farming tools as lolpods. The only difference here is you have to CHOOSE between fighting armor or infantry, just like tanks have to choose between AP and HE. What you really meant to say, is you want to farm infantry with your lolpods, but still have your nose gun to fight other aircraft.

Let's cut the crap about resource cost being an actual "penalty". Ever since the new resource system, you can pretty much pull ESFs forever. You get 350 resources every 6 minutes. If you can't stay alive for 6 minutes in an ESF, you suck so much nothing will help you anyways.

1)Um what. I'm sorry I am not comparing a weapon from a game in a different platform, genre....oh my god I do not understand where you are getting at here at all. I am saying the loadouts for the ESF are based out the same loadouts from the reaver and wasp...are you seriously debating here that the Vanguard from PS2 was not based form the Vanguard in PS1?

2)All Elite pilots....well thank you for notifying me your looking from their point of view...pheww I'm relieved, and here I thought that this thread was meant to help out new pilots....I was wrong sorry about that.

3) Clearly you have to be face to face with a Lib when you carry Tomcats or hornets

4) If you are asking for a game mechanic that would lock the aircraft to be specific loadouts such as:

A2G - weapons (banshee, lolpods or hornet)
jack of all trades- weapons (nosegun, afterburners)
A2A- weapons (rotary,coyotes,tomahawks)

I see no problem with that, I fully agree on you here.

5) Um again this thread is for new pilots, are you that surprised a new pilot wouldn't be able to stay alive for 6 mins?

1) Why do you insist on comparing PS2 with another game. It's off topic and serves no purpose. Who cares what the Vanguard is based on? We discussing the balance of PS2, not PS1.

2) Don't deflect the argument. Elite level pilots only use nose gun & burners. Therefore your argument that removing missiles neuters the ESF is wrong.

3) You're exaggerating my comment, but you don't present an argument otherwise. Noseguns have more range than Tomcats & hornets, allowing you to stay out of dalton range. Hornets on libs have to be pretty close. Tomcats have to be some 300M to ensure a lock. Nose guns will still out dps a tomcat at that range. Hands down, nose guns are better than any of these missiles for taking down a lib. Therefore, I call BS on your claim that ESFs can only take down burning libs without a missile slot.

4) I can agree with that, but it would be more simple to balance just 1 weapon.

5) This thread was an open discussion about A2A lock ons. You are keying in on the "new pilot" restriction. Besides, I thought we were talking about Planetside 2, yet you keep bringing up other video games.

Even as a newbie, resources have little impact. If you can only stay alive for 3 minutes, deploy infantry for 3 minutes and your back in an ESF. You keep protraying that an ESF is some "expensive 350 resource vehicle" as if that's somehow a rare opportunity to fly one. It's not.

XD point still stands however you could look up my buddy Rucifel who agrees with me, maybe thats the flight time you're looking for.

But we all have multiple accounts so you can add the the 43 hours ive put into reavers from my first account and the one i deleted to make room for my emerald vs

1) I am comparing PS2 to PS1 since of your original point you made in regards to a 2 weapon 1 seat vehicle was an abomination to PS2. Yet the vehicles in PS2 are based on the vehicles from PS1. There is no discussion on balancing here.

2) I am not deflecting the question you are Stating Elite pilots only use such and such (please look into my point 5)

3) So you are telling me with a straight face that an ESF with a rotary and afterburners, would out dps an ESF cycling between a rotary and tomahawks on a LIB?

4) it would always be simple to balance less

5) Sorry that I am "keying" in on the new pilot restriction, but I replied to OP about his view of the new pilot experience and commenting my opinion on that subject. I was assuming your point would have been on the same subject but I will remind myself in future posts that you for the general discussion.

There's a big difference and a lot of nuance here.

First of all, normally a primary weapon and secondary weapon are different in power. The primary holds the most, the secondary is used for emergencies or is an addition. Look at pistols, they are mainly emergency weapons. MBT secondaries are there for an extra punch, but are (most of the time) weaker than the primary and most used guns. Also, on vehicles the secondary is not directly available for the pilot unless he leaves the pilot seat.
The ESF primary and "secondary" however are different. The Primary is a strong AI and AA weapon, which can be changed to an pure AI weapon. The Secondary has a large amount of options to choose from, and almost every single one is powerful. Rocketpods for instance are incredible AI weapons capable of rivaling the AI nosecannons, while at the same time sporting very good AV damage. Hornets can deal more DPS than the main canons of the Vanguard or Magrider, and still carry almost as much ammunition as Vanguards.

Second of all, ESF might be paper, but the weapons "designed" to destroy them all have one flaw: they can't kill any half-competent Pilot who turns away when he gets under fire. Any pilot will always be able to get away, guaranteed, unless the AA is spammed or he put himself in a bad position to begin with, and that must be a bad position.

Almost every other vehicle in the game is either just as expensive or more expensive than an ESF. So calling it an "expensive vehicle" is a bit of a stretch. Especially since it can survive much more and deal much more damage than most ground equivalents. It's only crux is that there's an unintuitive and warped flight control system that favors bugs and bad game mechanics, which dominate the scene and mean that new pilots, even crack pilots in other games, won't be able to compete unless you have hours of practice in the VR. No single game should favor such a system, a game is to have fun. You should be able to have fun while learning the moves, even if you get your face caved in while doing so.

1) That's nice. It's still off topic and serves no real purpose for this discussion. Let's agree to stop bringing this up?

2) The "question" is a counter-argument to this statement made by you "vehicle that is paper thin and is meant for scouting, picking off low health liberators, tanks, and infantry with our nose cannon". My counter argument is elite pilots only use nose cannons and afterburners. This implies that nose cannons are effective in engaging all of these target and not merely for picking off low health targets.

3) I'm telling you that nose guns are more effective at taking down Liberators than missiles. A rotary + tomcat combo would out DPS a rotary by itself, but that's not the topic. The topic is your statement above, that ESFs would be reduced to picking off low health liberators. That's wrong. The nose gun is the best weapon against Liberators and even by itself can bring down a full health lib. In some cases a default nose gun + afterburners is better than a rotary + tomcat combo, because you can dodge dalton shots and maintain a longer distance to the lib to avoid it from firing back.

5) The only point I made in which you protested, because it does not apply to newbies is the resource timer. It takes 6 minutes to regain 350 resources. If a newbie can only survive for 1 minute, having to wait 5 minutes is no major obstacle. Therefore, all of these arguments still apply for "new pilots".