There's Something Wrong With the Entire NC

In a game as statistically large as PS2, it is very unlikely that one faction has less or more skilled players than another. That means we can take performance stats as a sign of balance instead of a way to prop up your faction's esteem.

I wish even 2% of that trailer was actually in the game.

Horde also owned PVP because of the massively overpowered and completely unfair racial traits they got for the first few years of the game's life. I'm going off memories like... ten years old here, but IIRC the racial abilities were:

Human - a tiny passive bonus to Spirit, arguably one of the most useless stats.
Night Elves - Shadowmeld, a weak stealth that any class could do, but you couldn't move while it was active. It was useful occasionally, but was immensely situational and mostly just used while waiting and not wanting to get ganked.
Dwarves - Stoneform, slowed down the player but gave him a short bonus to armor, also canceled any poison or bleeding DOTs. Basically it was an anti-Rogue ability.
Gnomes - Escape Artist, let them escape from snares, but it took time to activate and could be interrupted by damage, making it useless.

On the other hand...

Tauren - A 0.5 second cast AOE stun. Instantly interrupted any casting abilities.
Berserking - Honestly I don't remember what this did in original WoW. I think it was just a brief bonus to attack speed.
Orc - Bloodrage (or something), an instant-cast self-buff that boosted melee and ranged attack speed and damage.
Undead - I don't remember what it was called, but they had an instant button-push ability that would immediately remove almost all forms of 'loss of control' spells or abilities. It didn't work on stun, but I think it let them break just about every crowd control skill, including the most useful: fear.

As such, nearly everyone on Horde played Undead because of the tremendously overpowered racial trait that they had. A fear spell cast on Alliance players would send their party uselessly scattering, running into enemies and getting their **** wrecked. Undead would simply push their button and be instantly cured of the spell. It was sickeningly imbalanced.

So all the PvP people went to Horde because Horde wasn't even remotely fair or balanced, at least in the first couple years of WoW's life.

^This. This and so much of this...

Maybe the NC just want to have fun instead of throwing themselves into the mind-numbing meat grinder that is alerts?
Just a thought.

Personally, I think the main reason the NC under perform comes from all the way back in Beta and launch.

I think we can all agree that at launch, the NC were... bad. Just awful. From the Vanguard shield bugging out 50% of the time, to the abysmal weapon performance, things were awful. All we had was our bio-lab farm, and that didn't last too long. Considering that NC have received almost nothing but buffs over the years for nearly our entire arsenal, I think this is a little hard to debate. Launch and beta NC was AWFUL

But what does that have to do with the NC now? Simple, our early outfit growth was stunted. Nobody wanted to create outfits on the NC, because the NC was clearly underpowered. Worse, on Waterson a ton of internet celebrities like TotalBiscuit and AngryJoe created TR outfits of their own. This meant that the vast majority of early outfits weren't created on NC. And thus, a viscous cycle began.

Players that wanted to join or create outfits went to the factions that already had a plentiful amount of established outfits, the TR and VS. Players on the NC who wanted to join outfits found it harder and harder to stay NC, and began to drift to the other factions. Players on the TR and VS spent more time and certs on their characters, and became less likely to switch factions. Players determined to stay NC and create factions found themselves surrounded by a faction increasingly disinterested in outfits, causing even more players who were interested in outfits to jump ship.

Essentially, NC never got that critical formulation phase for early outfits to form, and then never got that stream of new outfit orientated players to keep them alive and create more. If you want to play a coordinated game, you need to play with other players who share that desire. Because of a lackluster NC launch, we didn't get them when we really needed them, and we certainly won't ever get them now. At least not in enough numbers to make a difference.

So what to do? Honestly, I don't see this problem ever getting fixed. I just don't see a reasonable way to do it. When this game inevitably kicks the bucket, be that in 20 years or 5, NC will definitely be the first faction to become a ghost town.

Exactly.

I have no reason to believe that 1/3 of the prospective players of PS2 since 2012 were all or mostly disorganized immature players, and then all joined the 'freedom faction'. If that were even remotely true, then why are the NC not severely underpopped on the EU/AU servers?

The reality of the situation isn't something people want to admit for some reason or another. Like I said, its not that NC weapons are underpowered, they are good at what they do and are being used in such capacities. Its just those capacities are not inherently good for taking bases and winning alerts.

If this turns out to be true. And its something the devs could probably figure out if they actively look for it. Then the fix isn't hard. No buffs or nerfs would be needed. Just a base design change to allow the weapons to shine equally.

I mean the alternative is not favorable, trust me. Lets say for the sake of argument that the NC are dumb, immature, zergy, and unorganized. Guess what? They still got to balance around that. And since weapons are performing fine. That means a straight 20% HP buff for infantry and vehicles across the board. You all want that? I mean if NC is losing a disproportionate amount of alerts, they need something to balance them in. Don't say SOE can't or won't balance around player 'skill'. They will and they have before. But we all know that isn't the case, so stop trying to stroke your epeens.

If this were true, the NC would be severely underpopped. But that isn't the case. Its never been underpopped.

I see where you are getting at, but the point is, it simply isn't reality. Great outfits are in the NC. Outfits like Recursion (who gave you the real time stat tracker even the devs use). And many outfits formed in Beta are still around, like on Connery you have Devil Dogs and ADK.

Like I said, I still think the problem is in base design. We're using our weapons to be competitive, but those locations aren't giving us the win at the end of the day. Even if we're getting good KDRs. That doesn't mean we're winning the 2 hour event.

Just to clarify, I'm not saying that the players on NC are bad or unskilled, they're simply not outfit orientated. They work as a team in a fight just fine, they know what needs to be done and try to do it, they're just not interested in joining outfits.

What? Your argument doesn't even make sense. The NC have great CQC weapons. Best CQC MAX by far, Jackhammer, best CQC automatic hipfire weapon in the Cyclone. Those three things alone should easily give NC all the firepower we could need to cap bases.

No they don't.

You're severely overestimating how large the talent pool is, and how much impact a relatively small group of experienced, coordinated players can have on the map. In practice, the game is not nearly as large as you imagine it to be. These 'but statistical averages' arguments fail to take into account human factors, and just don't bear out in game.

Not all bases require CQC. Try taking Impact crater with a Jackhammer.

I think that is part of the problem. People associate CQC with indoor fighting but many bases have LARGE indoor areas where such weapons aren't that great.

Sure a Shottie will be good on a LA that jumps down from behind someone. But Assault Rifles and LMGs are better suited for those 20-75 range corridors and fields that most bases have. Yes NC has the advantage at under 20m, yes we can do some damage with a SAW out to 100m. But that sweet spot of 20-75m.. that's TR/VS territory.

I mean I would love to see the evidence that supports the psychological analysis of the faction as a whole.

At least with my guess, its backed up by statistics. We have weapons/vehicles that perform as well as the TR/VS. But yet we're losing alerts. We have great outfits, some of the best. But we're still losing alerts. So what else could it be?

We're using our weapons where they are effective. Unfortunately we're losing key points of the map. I see this evidenced all the time where our players will avoid certain bases and certain fights. I don't even think they realize they are doing it. Your average player, which is most of the people who play the game, are going to take the path of least resistance.

20-75m is 600/167 damage tier territory, and NC is the only faction to have that.

I already said this on page 2, but I'll repeat myself very briefly here for your benefit:

Good leaders are very limited. Imbalances between factions based on who has the most good leaders are inevitable when the talent pool is so small. With such a small pool, one of the three factions is likely to end up with noticeably fewer leads and will underperform as a result. When a few (like two or three) really, really good leaders all join one faction the imbalancing effect becomes even more pronounced. That NC just so happens to be the faction that got the fewest good leaders doesn't reflect anything on the game design, balance, or the greater NC playerbase. It's just the way the sticks fell.

it's just leaders. See my post on page two for the more complete argument.

So you're saying these small groups are doing all the heavy lifting, which would make sense. Unfortunately only two of the Factions have these groups, which means there's something wrong with the third that makes it impossible for such groups to operate.

No, it just means that the Enders and Zoids and Ltiys of this world are rare. Leading a strong outfit requires an insane amount of dedication and patience. A lot of it is just grinding and for a long time the fun comes only in brief flashes. These leaders normally play 5 nights a week minimum, are always leading, have to keep up a cheerful mood, and deal with ridiculous nerd drama. All on their own time, for free. The outfits they create are aberrations, not inevitabilities.

I find it very hard to believe that the NC on every server suffers from this. If we were talking about one server. You might have a point. But the fact of the matter is. Most of the public platoons I've been in, NC, TR, or VS, on different servers are following the zerg and doing the 'good farm'.

And being NC, I haven't seen the nasty outfits trouncing us. Betting us by attrition, but not a full blown 'this can't be won, they are too good.' Like the stats on alerts are showing. I don't see that.

What I do see is a series of base fights where we either win. Or we get bogged down in and eventually pushed out of. If there was a lack of leadership on the scale you are suggesting, then that would mean VS and TR HAVE the leaders NC doesn't. And in my seventeen years of online competitive gaming experience that much of a leadership advantage would mean a sound beating.

But no, instead its battles of attrition. Either the bases are taken swiftly or the base bogs into a cert farm till people get bored and leave. This means there is a lack of leadership on Both sides. And the alert stats show that that style of a fight doesn't favor the NC.

Now if you want to go a different route and leave base design alone. Then lets go on to changing how rewards work. This way the cert farming and lone wolfing style (that many are saying is causing this), isn't as rewarding or at all rewarding, thus forcing peeps into a more team oriented playstyle and see if that pushes people into winning more alerts.

I mean I'm willing to admit that weapons and vehicles (as they are balanced across the factions) are fine. In fact I'm basing my argument as if they are.

But if you all want to say its because its a leadership issue, then lets push it so that the way to get certs and exp is in team oriented environments where leadership thrives.

There's only five servers.

I disagree. On a single server, perhaps, but across all servers across the globe? There is plenty of population to take accurate enough averages. And from what I understand (though I may be wrong), NC is under performing for some reason or another as a standard. During times of VS or TR under performance, it's always because their weapons are UP or something, I rarely hear anyone accusing them of being the 'bads' faction. It's only ever NC who are just 'unskilled'. My personal theory is because, while their weapons are good, they inherently require better aim than VS or TR guns due to the nature of low RoF, while also being heavily punished against ADAD spammers and poor aim much more than other faction's weapons. So NC guns by design philosophy require higher skill and punish poor aim much more than other factions, and it shows in performance stats.

NC/Emerald is in the weakest and most pathetic state it has ever been. If I didn't have so many friends and weren't so foolishly dedicated to this faction I would have switched and taken great joy in regularly killing those who have infected our faction with their incompetence, apathy, and general scumbaggery.

We have several outfits which are a huge burden to NC and rarely help out with faction initiatives. The problem almost always comes down to inept leadership and so I tend not to blame the members themselves. I host popular open squads/platoons for people who regularly deviate from their outfit's foolish and selfish agendas.

Our largest and one of the oldest NC outfits regularly ignores alerts and can't be counted on for anything. They are completely absent from command chat. They hold "training" sessions which entails half of their outfit joining another faction, finding a base a few hexes from the frontline, and farming each other(or stat padding if you like). If you happen to enter this territory during their farmfest, you're TK'd on sight.

The second largest was blatantly founded on a cheating community. The leader has since been permanently banned, but likely lingers in the outfit controlling their useless puppet leaders. His influence is obvious as they still advertise their hacking/cheating site in their recruitment message, as well their microphone/headset referral scam site.

The third largest is the return of an older NC outfit which had been somewhat inactive for a period of time. They've been known to bury their heads in the sands of Indar regardless of wherever else they may be needed. Seems like business as usual since their return.

These outfits and others have recruited large numbers of NC players only to misdirect them and keep them soft and unskilled through mindless, repetitive, fair weather fighting and I think many of their members truly don't know any better.

I like Wisdomcubes's strategy, and in the third person only with popcorn I greatly enjoy his interpersonal skills, but yeah, it's the interpersonal skills.

But NC is just BAD. Hopefully Futurecrew and the new BAX will make it more interesting on Emerald.

Wisdomcube isn't stupid; he's clearly very smart and strategic. When I spoke to him semi-privately, he was even somewhat nice and polite!

Unfortunately, his ability to be humble and a true team player did not scale with his grasp of strategy.

But I don't agree with your "NC is bad" sentiment; the Conglomerate has many very gifted players (such as yourself) that regularly stomp me and my faction, it's just they don't "project" their might very well.