The ugly truth: Fighting Air is Boring.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Bortasz, May 11, 2014.

  1. SmokeMcCloud

    Ok, I can let them have that *PROVIDED* *I* can switch out *MY* *ESF* / *LIBBY* *LOADOUTS* as well.
    • Up x 1
  2. MostlyClueless

    The Dalton and Zephyr ain't exactly weak you know.
    • Up x 1
  3. Badname707

    Only because it can stay in the area long enough to kill a vehicle while being shot at from AA. The Dalton and Zephyr (and Shredder) aren't weak, but they aren't 'kill EVERYTHING in a 5' radius' strong either. And that's assuming that the bomb is relatively accurate. If it isn't, it's blast radius is going to have to be larger to be effective.
  4. MostlyClueless

    They are literally some of the highest DPS weapons in the game. The Tankbuster and Shredder are top two.
    • Up x 2
  5. Badname707

    Right, because they spend more time not shooting them then just about any other vehicle weapon in the game. Tanks are much better for sustained, consistent suppression. Liberators are good at poking holes in defenses, and then bailing. If they are lucky and the defense is up for it, they can farm better than tanks can. It just requires nobody pull AA.
    • Up x 2
  6. stalkish

    The palisade yesterday was epic.
    Me and 2 squad members went AA duty and annihilated the VS air zerg.
    Defo not boring and defo not unrewarding, infact its the most fun ive had in weeks playing, schythes trying to flank us, libs hammering us, was fast action edge of the seat stuff. Not sure how you can say its booring tbh.
    • Up x 2
  7. Phazaar

    Once again, you're still obsessed with this 'ONE GUY VS ONE PLANE' nonsense. Why do you want the game balanced around what can be done by a single person? It needs to be balanced around what can be done by a single platoon, and at that point, one guy using AA being able to solo aircraft simply makes it pointless ever utilising aircraft in the same place.

    If you're really bored you can go back a year in my posting history and see that I made the same point regarding tanks being pointless when the situation was the same for inf vs tanks as you're proposing for ground vs air. Tanks CAN be blown up by a single infantry man, yes, but only in exactly the same circumstances it happens to ESFs and Liberators. It doesn't happen to them from 800 metres away, it doesn't happen via fire and forget weapons, and it doesn't happen versus invisible opponents. What's being requested for AA is the same kill potential that C4 grants infantry without the resource cost, risk, or requisite proximity. It's nonsense.

    I've C4'd plenty of ESFs and Liberators in my days. Problem is they're always up in the air :( So what do I do? Get in the air and kill them up there instead of whining like a little girl because my preferred playstyle is vulnerable against theirs (please note by the way, my preferred playstyle IS infantry, despite that I'm terrible at it - weirdly, although terrible at it, I never have a problem with aircraft... I wonder why...).
    • Up x 1
  8. Phazaar

    You missed the memo with that first five words mate, sorry. Teamwork is not allowed, especially when used to find enjoyment in different aspects of the game...
    • Up x 2
  9. MostlyClueless

    I love how you say C4 is the counter but totally impractical so your only option versus air is to pull Air.

    That's really useful when I'm in a Tank or a Sunderer! Thanks!

    The issue isn't that air has no counters. It's that the counter to Air is Air and that's as dumb as if the only way to kill a MBT is to pull your own MBT.
  10. Phazaar

    C4 is A counter. You're the one labouring the point about how a completely oblivious tank can get destroyed by a single infantry. All I'm saying is the same is true for air, however normally there's the small matter of 300m of height between infantry and aircraft... Thus yes, the best option is to close that distance and beat them at what they're doing. It's not the only option though...

    If you're no good at that, as has been stated multiple times in this and every thread, that's not a problem; pull some AA and they'll leave. If you really want them dead instead of just gone, co-ordinate with a couple of friends and instakill them. Just like you have to in order to remove a tank from combat...

    It's really not difficult. That's the whole point.
    • Up x 1
  11. stalkish

    O crap ye.
    Apologies guys i totaly forgot this is a solo game....
    • Up x 1
  12. MostlyClueless

    To air. You're seriously saying C4 is a counter to air?

    No! No I don't have to coordinate with others to remove a tank. I can do it as one guy. Base cap timers are short and Co-ordinating an AA team to get on a hill and shoot down one lib is unrealistic, it won't happen and even if you somehow get people to agree it still won't happen in time to work. Even if you manage all that two people in a Lib are taking out four people from the fight to deal with them and they probably won't even kill them!

    Liberators and Gals are literally the only things in the game that you need friends or to pull a similar vehicle to kill. Gals aren't so problematic because they don't have the strongest weapons in the game strapped to them but Liberators are kind of a big deal.
  13. stalkish

    And that right there is the problem this game has. Too many 'i should be able to solo everything' players.
    • Up x 1
  14. MostlyClueless

    But you can solo everything. Scat Max? Soloable with Default Heavy. Sunderer? Tank Mines/C4/Default Heavy if you got patience. MBT? See the Sunderer. ESF's? AA Lock ons.

    Liberators (And the super rare Battle Gals) are the only things that get to go "Actually you need a squad to beat me because I'm meant to be that amazing" and it baffles me why people think this.

    You should be concerned about anyone outplaying you. Getting in a Lib shouldn't make it so a squad needs to dedicate themselves to killing me. I should be killed by one smart guy if I mess up. Having wing mates or forces on the ground should be the counter to that one guy, not just a "Screw it, I'm a lib. No one gets to kill me but a good ESF pilot or another Lib"
  15. Axehilt

    Dalton's definitely more popular, though I'm not sure it's actually better. (I'm also not sure it's actually worse.)

    Quality is terrible but I recorded a vid of a typical random Solo Lib run, and also another sequence of vids (part 1, part 2) where I was fighting against incredibly uneven population and surviving reasonably long due to the Lib's range (but also admittedly not being all that effective due to the pop imbalance.) (parts 3 and 4 were never actually uploaded) The vids are basically both extremes of battles that can happen: the first where the enemy fields nothing threatening (infantry fodder only with Burster) and the second where the enemy has massive pop advantage and plenty of vehicles.

    I pick Shredder mostly for the strength shown in the first video where it just absolutely demolishes infantry, and partially for the strength shown in the second video where it accurately lands damage at render range (even though I failed pretty hard at 1 or 2 points in the second video and switched targets before killing something).
  16. Phazaar

    Yes. 1000% yes. An extremely effective counter, too, in the right situation... If you've never killed a Liberator or ESF with C4, I don't know what you've been doing. In exactly the same way as when killing a tank, it requires an absence of concentration from the opposing pilot, and some great positioning on your part, but it's far from impossible. Thus, as you're continuing to labour, one infantry CAN kill an aircraft solo, in a OHK no less.

    Not in any situation where you can't do the same to remove an aircraft. Stop lying to yourself.

    One guy vs a tank... We've already covered C4 in prior discussion. So what else have we got? Rocket launchers? With a 15-30 second TTK, requiring exactly the same conditions as a rocket launcher can kill an aircraft. The tank (or ESF/Lib) has to refuse to withdraw/take cover, allow you to land all shots, and not kill you in the process. Maybe AV turrets? 10-20 second TTK, requiring the same conditions as is necessary to kill an aircraft - not withdrawing/taking cover, landing all shots, and not getting killed in process. Not the best comparison though since the AV turret is hardly intended as AA - I'd welcome an AA mana turret though, at exactly the same time that they remove lockons. Tank mines!!! Let's not have that discussion eh? It just makes everyone feel less intelligent than they were a minute ago... Base turrets!! Exactly the same situation, and a MUCH longer TTK than vs aircraft...

    Oooo... You could pull a tank... Or an aircraft... Or you could team up with someone else with a rocket launcher, AV turret, tank mines (pahahahaha), or base turrets and really have some fun... Except I know. Teamwork is bad. We need less teamwork and more 1v1 balance solutions.

    I think you've showed your hand here. Would you like to know exactly how much co-ordination it takes me to remove all enemy aircraft from an area without even having to deploy my own air squadron? 'Alpha squad, pull 3 skyguards.' *Alpha's SL designates 3 volunteers who respawn (15 seconds), run to a vehicle terminal (15 seconds), and pull Skyguards (15 seconds). Let's throw an extra 15 seconds in incase it's a really long walk... We're talking one minute to more or less permanently remove aircraft from an AO. Oh so hards.

    Seriously, what the hell is the game you're playing with your 'get people to agree' 'get on a hill' nonsense. Your squad should be itching to help out in any way possible. If they're not, get a new squad. If no squad's helpful, get a new platoon, and if no platoon's helpful, get a new outfit.

    And as for 'four people' (my example was 3 people in order to rid the sky of easily a dozen aircraft, if not more), if there's only one Lib (why is this even a problem? One lib and there's 48 of you... Come on, man. Get with the programme.), it's even faster 'All HA lock that Lib to the NW.' *wait 5 seconds* 'Fire'. One dead Liberator. Only 1/5th of my HA even need to have found the target and locked for it to be an instakill... And zero people removed from the fight any more than they would be if they were shooting at an infantry target - this 'removed from the fight' nonsense is endemic of your issue - you believe the fight is on the ground and anyone not fighting on the ground is not 'in the fight' - I believe the fight is for the objective, and anyone not contributing to that fight is not 'in the fight'; protecting our platoon from aircraft is most definitely contributing to the fight for the objective.

    Firstly, no. As covered above. Secondly, even if this were true, I don't see that being a problem. We have a hierarchical system in the game by necessity - given that the thing at the top of that hierarchy is an NS vehicle, I see absolutely no balance concerns, unless you're crying about 1v1 kill potential nonsense instead of trying to balance the game around the massive conflict it's intended for. Remind me how well your 47 people in those 'top of the food chain' Liberators with 1 guy on the ground did at taking that Biolab, Tech Plant, or Amp Station against my 48 guys on the ground again?
    • Up x 2
  17. Sekone

    "Because this is Planetside 2. Not Airside 2. This is Multiplayer game so sorry but you have to consider other people."
    So all the people that think air should be relevant in this game, do not consider other people's opinion because you don't want to fly?

    That's the most self entitled bulls*t, maybe YOU should consider other people, Flying would be no fun at all if 1AA gun would be instant death to air, and AA in the game right now, IS EFFECTIVE no matter what you tell yourself, you might not always get kills but your denying the enemy air units kills, stop thinking you should win every encounter with the enemy 1on1 (+2 for lib)

    oh and btw I have usually have no problem chasing away/killing lone enemy libs/ESF's when im on the ground, you know why? because I actually equip the AA meassures in game and use them, instead of complaining about how bad they are and then use roofs/buildings as cover, and hide while reloading, AND keep an eye open for them so they DON'T get a perfect surprise attack from the back, because then you deserve to die, that's a fatal mistake that would get you killed in any other situation.
    • Up x 2
  18. MostlyClueless

    Ignoring for a moment how silly the idea that you can C4 something flying 100m+ in the air is. Even if you do C4 a liberator it takes more than 2 C4 to do it. So even if you somehow do get them, it's still not a 0HK.
    • Up x 3
  19. stalkish

    But your not 1 guy in the lib, your 3.

    So basically your saying, ''just because your in a lib doesnt giv you the right to win.'' Ill ask this before i finish, if nothing gives the lib the right to beat you, what gives you the right to solo the lib?
    • Up x 1
  20. stalkish

    Ive been saying this over and over and over again lately, no1 listens, they prefer to not have to think or change their playstyle in any way what-so-ever to combat a changing battlefield. They prefer to whine to higby and get their opponent nerfed. Whats worse is that he actualy listens to these winging whining little sh its.
    (you can probably tell its starting to annoy me now :))
    • Up x 1