The ugly truth: Fighting Air is Boring.

You're failing to note the difference between "Liberators don't deserve a victory just because they're in a Lib" and "I should stand a chance of killing a Liberator as Infantry"

I mean you think I don't use Libs? My current best weapon is the Zephyr with a 12 KD ratio and I'm not even that good a shot with it. It's the vehicle we pull to farm (Harasser for fun)

It's also not a three man vehicle unless you're using a Bulldog butt gun, it's 2 man.

You can't. You C4 it when it's on the ground. Jeeeeez it's not rocket science...

You can carry more than 2 C4, you know... And almost every time it's landed it's going to be on low health anyway... No problem.

Are you on Connery?

I'm imagining a server where Liberators land next to enemy infantry and are all "Oh hey, we're just going to rep up here. Don't C4 us while we do okay?"

I can see we're going to have to take this slower...

1. SPM is a ratio, score / time
2. Time is the time you spend with a weapon equipped or selected.
3. A Skyguard is active at all times. You might estimate that you're firing 10% of the time while it's equipped.
4. A Solo Shredder is only active while switched to that seat. I'd estimate I'm firing 80-90% of the time while it's equipped.
5. That's why my Skyguard has 545 SPM and my Shredder has 1477 SPM.

However since 95% of my Lib time is solo-Libbing and DA calculates overall Liberator SPM (498) that's closer to the actual effective SPM achieved in that playstyle.

Now that class is over, it's time to choose:

1. If interested in truth, you'll see my Skyguard (545) is rewarded more than my Shredder-Lib (~498).
2. If interested in sensationalist lies, fixate on Shredder-only (1477) stats.

Miller primarily.

Do tanks (that aren't ********) readily sit next to infantry and allow them to run over, place C4, run away, detonate C4? No. It requires risk, timing and positioning. As an infiltrator, I'll frequently go to the nearest tower behind enemy lines, hack the infantry terminal, spawn LA and go and wait on the roof. Guaranteed people will come back here to repair, at which point I fairy over and C4 them. If you're looking for a more fun form of AA, this is definitely it. It's like fishing, only you get to ruin someones day, and you get FAR more people than you would get fish.

Firstly i dont think you should stand a chance, 1 troop vs a heavily armoured bomber / gunship should be obliterated without contest, but having said that, yes you do stand a chance.
Infantry are so powerful in this game (and every game for the last 5 years for some reason) you get lockons that the lib cannot dodge without forgoing vastly more important utilities and can shoot out of infantry render, and you get a dual burster max which can shoot also libs from beyond render, nothing more annoying when your flying than lockons / flak from beyond render. Besides I killed 2 libs yesterday with my dual burster (they are infantry despite what some around here would like), yes i had help but youll struggle to find a situation where there are 0 friendlies in the area, and if so you wernt gona last long against anything.

Thers nothing wrong with 'farming' as you call it, i personaly call it playing the game but hey if you want to put labels on specific playstyles go right ahead, i prefer to adjust and counter then intelligently, not bi tch on the forums. Each to their own.

But. Here's the thing. Hold on now.

Tanks can't fly.

They don't really get to pick where they repair, they're doing it behind one of the three rocks on offer if they're lucky. A liberator can literally pick wherever the hell it wants to repair. If it chooses to do it beside an Infantry Zerg then I'm amazed it even managed to take off in the first place.

You do. Stand a chance. At killing a liberator. AS infantry.

Chance as defined by dictionary.

A possibility of something happening:there is a chance of winning the raffle

TTK infantry is rather low in this game ( it's not ArmA, but still, one salvo and the guy is dead).

On the other hand you have vehicles that take an eternity to destroy even when you use weapons designed specifically to fight them. I'm talking rocket launchers/ AV turrets/ base turrets.

Why ?
Because of resources ?
But remind me please why vehicles cost resources ?
Because they're powerful.
And why are they powerful ?
Because they cost resources !!!

Please make vehicles cost 0 resource and adjust their power accordingly...

Did you even read my post? That was the point!

• Obviously everything should be useful.
• In PS2 right now, nearly everything is useful. Liberators are useful because they can kill sunderers. ESFs are useful because they kill Liberators. Skyguards are useful because they kill ESFs and damage Libs. Tanks are useful because they kill ground-based AA. And Sunderers are the heart of any attack. (The only non-useful things are Harassers/Flash, and aren't even relevant to this discussion.)
• In your proposal, ground beats air, which means Skyguards (maybe even Bursters and G2A Lockons) beat all air which means air has no relevance to battle at any time and is useless.

I wasn't being literal hun.

Wait, but Liberators beat all ground. So doesn't ground have no relevance to battle at any time and is useless?

Oh wait the Liberator can fly and is a fair bit faster than a Skyguard, so it has plenty of time to recognize the threat and not fly over it wondering why it's exploding.

Well, the original claim was that G2A wasn't rewarded (not that it wasn't fun) so that's what I was disputing.

Discussing the fun of using a Skyguard delves into an entirely different set of subjective things.

Nearly ? Oh yes.!, Infantry is missing in your food chain. Because it doesn't have teeth strong enough to eat anybody reliably...

Yes, but it has the advantage of havings many more teeth and being able to replace them quickly. And occasionally you get a really sharp tooth out of the whole bunch.

I can see we're going to have to take this slow (again):

• Sunderers are absolutely critical
• Liberators beat MBT/Sunderer
• Liberators die to ESFs
• ESFs die to Skyguards
• Skyguards die to MBTs

So Sunderers and MBTs are both very relevant. Also in the noise of battle Skyguards make Libs much more likely to die (and at least tend to zone them out, rendering them mostly ineffective.)
There are a lot of other nuances too, including the fact that Libs do a little too well against their counter (and that is the only thing that needs tweaking with the air game.) But those are left out for the sake of distilling things down to the core purpose of each vehicle.

You're making a weird argument like I'm advocating the removal of Liberators. I'm not, I'm just using a silly counter example to point out why even saying "Ground AA being able to beat air makes air useless" is ridiculous. I mean sure it would if it was too good at it's job. But currently it's terrible at it.

HUH? Don't tell me what I can't do, when I have already done it. Most people are idiots, that is why they fail, then they want to blame the game.

idk ussualy i defend air but, after taking 2 month break my flying skill is reduced from a tiny bit above average to bellow average which make me found out that yea it sucks figthing air especialy when you dont know how to fly, imo skyguard only detter and RARELY (but possible) massacre air if they are ******* CLOSE AND OBNOXSIUS of you (killed 4 scythe and 1 lib yesterday), g2a is worst i think havent tried it but if you can get 2 people locking together there might be a chance to get a kill by making the pilot panic, but this only apply if lock is acquired in close range where they cant run, lastly maybe the only fun way other than dogfight to kill air is probably using av weapon, i killed a mossie with a raven today, it just need a bit leading and i think 2 of them/ a salvo will take out esf (not sure)

I agree vehicles should be able to swap out load outs, it really won't change much but it will make people feel better about it. I am also a strong advocate that top armor should be reworked & buffed, so that it becomes an "Anti-Air" Armor. Buff it from 5% - 10% over all and give it additional resists to all Air based weapons except the Dalton, which would only be effected by the 5% over all buff.

I disagree we couldn't have done it with a skyguard, but it is much easier for infantry, since they are much harder to see and once the bursters start putting flak into the liberators, they virtually go blind.

My issue is I continually hear how AA isn't fun or it isn't effective. Yet, night after night myself and my outfit continually kick the **** out of any air assets that come at us and it isn't hard to do and it is damn fun.