The new Bandit is perfect! Thank you SOE!

Nope, our AR-style LMG is already great. If we're cloning faction flavor defaults and handing them out that means we get a CARV


That is what the TR gets for screaming bloody murder about a gun less than 2 hours after it was dropped to the PTS as though it were the live version going out tomorrow.

All the guns are still being tweaked. They are going to be getting tweaked for another week, even.

There is no range that the Mercenary performs well at that the Razor doesn't also perform well at. I can jump into a group of bad guys and spray them down with rounds and knife attacks until they finally bring me down just as well with either, and that's pretty much the working definition of CQC.

And that's with an adv grip and a comp!

We were worried that it would be difficult to balance fairly - it would either be too good or too bad. This belief was based on the dev's own reasons for capping 167 at 600rpm, and it makes a good logical sense.

To see the TR getting first crack as a gun like this was insulting, but mostly we NC were worried that the damn thing was going to be a nightmare for either ourselves or the TR.

After the first few passes of tweaks went through and the models got put it, it became obvious that SOE had their sh*t together here and the added dropoff and lack of long range attachments would do very well to keep the gun in the close-mid range. This is when we went "quiet", because our worries were unfounded.

The whole time, of course, the NC were saying that even though we did like the 167/600 Bandit, having the 167/632 Cougar would be better because it's just NC as all hell and looks like it's going to be an effective, fun gun.

Now we've got it, and we're happy, just like we said, so of course we're not whipping up any storms

I'm fine with NC having a CARV too, whatever.

TR had a right to scream bloody murder about the Cougar since it wasn't a good carbine for filling a void in our arsenal. We even suggested the Cougar would be more fitting for NC.

Problem is, they freaking buffed it when they transferred it over to NC. I don't think it's even faction bias, I think they genuinely have a poor understanding of the practical value of different weapon stats on different types of weapon. They should put the left angle back on the gun at the very least.

Close - medium ranges the Mercenary outperforms the Razor. It has better horizontal recoil and better TTK. At longer ranges is where the velocity of the Razor starts making more difference especially for tagging strafing/running targets, but TR's Razor clone got 5 extra bullets instead of good velocity. :/ We're back to that poor understanding of the value of weapon stats.

i must say though i am so exited about the cougar. the bandit is now nc again and coigar fills the niche well. could use a slight range buff though. other than that it is a fantastic long range carbine. Also, does the brrt still provide the 920rpm bonus or only the spin up time decrease?

Mostly we were complaining about TR downplaying it as "meh" carbine.

Neither Razor, nor Merc have AFG.

And only reason Razor can try to hold it's own in CQC is it's hipfire accuracy. But it's not as good as Merc at that range, never will be. Thing is, Cougar doesn't have saving grace of best hipCoF for carbines in the game, so it might have hard time doing as well as Razor.

The Bandit is exactly what NC needed! It really feels the gap between the Mercenary and the GD-7F.
It's very similar to the Jaguar, arguably one of the best carbines in the game, good hip accuracy, adv., laser, good dps, decent ads accuracy.

I agree the new cougar might be a bit lacking compared to the razor, maybe it could use a buff to 577 rpm.

I don't think many would be if it happened.

The CARV is great, it always amazes me how well I do with it, and how well it consistantly performs. Maybe that's due to using guns that require more practice and control, but it is still a genuinely great close-mid range (LMG range, not Carbine range - it can easily engage at long Carbine range) genralist LMG I think, and certainly very easy to use.

Which I wonder is the reason why a lot of TR-only players don't seem to appreciate it; that is because it is easy to use well (it has a low skill ceiling, but that ceiling is actually very competative), and doesn't really take or need a lot of upgrading..

It doesn't have the versatility of NC and VS options. VS has the .75 ADS SVA-88 and Orion which can add a higher skill cap and a lot of survivability if you move smartly and can aim well while doing so. NC's LMGs just have way better effective range due to lower horizontal recoil and small starting CoFs, plus more damage per mag options since 167*100 and 200*100 > 143*100.


It's not a terrible LMG but it's not really strongest at anything in particular and there are better all-rounders as well. I would be completely fine with NC having a clone of it. And I mean a clone, not a superior version as seems to be how they go about giving TR weapons to VS/NC lately.

so much complaining

Jaguar versus bandit, aye? We'll see how it plays out.





(excuse my horrible paint "skillz")

If the CARV had .75 ADS there'd literally be no reason for the TR to use anything else. It stacks up well to the Orion (the Orion is better, but that 100 round mag means it is not much better where it is better - similar with the Anchor, although it's really unfair to compare either with the CARV as technically they are the MSW-R equiverlents). The CARV is very much like an opposite EM6, but easier to use well, and of course most meaningful combat in PS2 exists within LMG close to medium range, not LMG Medium to Long range (where the EM6 is better).

I don't particularly think any other faction should have it, I just find it strange how much negative press it gets, when it really is very good.

It definately seems to make huge amounts of sense, well except for the amount of non-NC complaints it will likely generate when it goes Live.

It's not very good, but it's worth a consideration if only for the mag size along with 750 RoF though. MSW-R is more accurate and gets soft point and better hip-fire. Orion gets kind of the same deal except even better accuracy and with .75 ADS (Orion is straight up superior and an overpowered weapon).

If you're doing the usual 1vs1 skirmishes with enough time to reload here and there, no reason to take a Carv. If you want to mow down enemies in larger groups from a flank and either kill everything or die before you need to reload, it's a better option than the MCG at least. Most of the time, MSW-R is going to be better.

So a similar weapon on the NC is OP and UP on the TR?

Besides this was not the faults you found with the Cougar 1.0, the argument you had then was Cougar 1.0 does not have x2 reflex and compensator.

Never complained about a compensator.

The problem with Cougar 1.0 was that it wasn't filling any void in TR's carbine selection because they made it into a close range weapon which we had too many of.

The Bandit has a way better recoil pattern and .75 ADS, basically making it a major improvement over theCougar, which is kind of BS. The Cougar had a strong enough left angle to limit it considerably unless you compensated extremely well. Bandit you just pull down for easy subsequent headshots or at least easy keeping on target.

Only thing Cougar had over the bandit was IIRC 20 more velocity.

Not claiming this is a result of their bias toward NC or anything, it's just incompetent/clueless weapon balancing -which is keeping TR the worst infantry faction right now due to how heavily they overrated rounds per mag and just in general putting stupid levels of horizontal recoil and/or recoil angle on our weapons.

I'm pretty sure SOE would have made the changes of this if they didnt get the weapon feedback of:

"We do not want this weapon at all"

After all the old Cougar was only on the PTS.

As for the compensator, let me just search through, unless that thread is deleted.

Some TR certainly wanted it - but mostly TR didn't want to lose our only chance of finally getting a decent longer range carbine for it when we have so many close range carbines already.

And of course Paperlamp, derailing of threads, would come here.

Everything is UP and all new changes are better for other factions, right? I mean, it's not like every update is a WIP and prone to change, oh no, it's literally the end of the world when the NC gets a weapon that fits their design philosophy and has a perk on top of it to boot.

On the subject of your Cougar "arguments", you know how we had a gap in our lineup of carbines? How we were missing a good mid to long range carbine? The NC were also missing something. They didn't have a mobile, above-average TTK carbine like we did in the Jaguar. Neither did the VS. This update was to cover the gaps in all empires' arsenals. TR was missing a ranged option and NC/VS were lacking middle ground between their defaults and CQC carbines.

Now that that gaps are filled, and with good (dare I say balanced?) weapons, I think it's silly of you to complain that the NC got a better version of an old carbine that we never got. So what if they're getting a Cougar with .75 ADS movement speed? The Bandit is the same gun as before, but instead of having 600 rpm it has 32 more rpm and drops off an extra damage tier at range. It's really not going to be that much different than it was before, and NC SHOULD have really good 167-tier weapons. That's kinda their thing.

And they got a similar weapon to the best Long-ranged weapon available to the NC.

The cougar 1.0 would have gotten the upgrades the bandit 2.0 got.
Its just that the Bandit 2.0 still is arguable against the jaguar.

The TR would ultimately argue (if they got bandit 2.0):-

We have a gun with higher DPS, very controllable recoil, intended for the same purpose as the bandit 2.0, so whats the point of us getting a slightly worse gun competing in the same field with 750 more cert cost.

Farming certs now.

Saving myself some time I've recently explained why the Cougar is hardly going to save TR's Carbine selection:

Also Cougar is overall worse than the Razor, they decided to give it extra rounds and take away more important stats as usual for TR weapons.