[Suggestion] The Main Reason Infils Don't Work In PS2

But it is up when it matters (also, again referring to instances not literal time), and if it isn't then you have either over-extended or used it thoughtlessly. For the same reason a heavy/medic isn't running around with their abilities constantly on, but have them available the majority of the time.

Missing what i'm saying. Someone in smoke is effectively invisible, even though they are just obscured. The comparison was meant to draw someone who is completely visible (heavy/medic particles highlight through smoke) vs. someone who isn't completely visible, and (i'd say fact) that everyone fails to see far more players who are obscured than they think they do.

Because I don't know how the sites use the APIs to calculate deaths (if they count the weapon or if they can differentiate between the class you die as/to), I can't say for certain, but if you look at the activity on fisu you can see that infils are consistently fighting for 2nd with LA and are sometimes even fighting for 1st with HA. Eng is iffy because vehicles.

So while they aren't every second death, they are most certainly a very common occurrence.

Here is the thing, you are thinking in terms of basically, 1 v 1s. In reality, you are going to get a kill or two and then have to disengage, as any class. Infil cloak gets you into position to engage (similar to LA) and gives you an advantage, but after that (and even during) you want the 100 extra shields and the extra resistances while disengaging.

I mean, you are taking a situation that can happen in any number of ways, but all put you in a disadvantage no matter what class you are. The whole point of infil is that you can not only try to avoid those situations as any other class, but also get away with things you wouldn't as another class.

I don't know what you mean by the 2 seconds, but the cloak lasts 8.5 seconds and recharges in 11. The key point is that you don't have to run it down to empty, and you don't have to wait for it to completely fill to use it.

Surviving when you shouldn't is a huge point.

The point is that at a distance your only real threat is either from another sniper or someone sneaking up on you. Dart/Radar deal with most of the sneaking, but if they don't then you want the extra shield/resistances to either engage or not. For a sniper, you can tank a sniper shot to the head with cloak. The reason hunter works with that is because you can spend more time cloaked than a NAC, but in reality nobody really cares cuz lul hill top snipers.

Some of this addressed above, but to reiterate in tl;dr:
- In nearly all situations, NAC will have enough time to 'cross a field'
- Running with NAC versus Hunter is the same in regards to the effectiveness of the cloak itself
- In what world do you go from consecutive 1v1s, consistently?
- Even in 1v1s, you still want the added shield so you have a lower chance of trading against high alpha dmg weapons

I have never claimed to be the Community, you actually did, in the very post I was responding to.

Irony, given You've been determined, and have made claims That haven't ever been addressed;
You claimed the Infiltrator had permanent invisibility, with one-hit-kill weapons - It doesn't. Stalkers can't field sniper rifles.
You want to argue about Invisibility, fine have your day, But you claimed that Permanence came with One-hit kill sniper rifles.

Mate, you want Infiltrators removed, and have been making claims this entire 4 page saga, about it, with false notions.
And that is ignoring the "Invisibility!" bits - the One video is about "invisibility" terms , Not 'Hey stalkers have sniper rifles'
Given the Number of Threads aimed at them by you, and the Thread title..
I'm pretty sure you have a Hatred, or one hell of a distaste - since not tweaks but straight removal was demanded.
On top of stating, right under your single video, that the Community as a whole wants them removed.

I also haven't actually called you dumb - I called you insane after 3 pages.
I've referenced your Self-Stated Skill level - You however have assigned Classes to people, as negatives.
Then why do you have threads for their removal, not changes or similar?
Why does your Core post pretend their abilities are mixed?

"Hey remove infils, they don't work", followed with "The Community Says I am right", Then claiming I said it, when I didn't, is a bit ********, mate, to call a discussion.
I stated the Community likely doesn't.

Does this look like a statement of what the Community believes or sides with me?
I state, at best, it is split on the issue, with logic on both sides.
Which was in response to you claiming the Community believes Infils need to be removed.

I give you more time of day than I should bother.
At the end of the day,

You posted this, and pretended it was Subjective.
Focused entirely on KDR.


Then, Apparently Infiltrators have no Counter - which is hilarious.
And the statements, that Heavy-Assaults are weak.
Lack of Effectiveness of MAXes & Heavy-Assaults.
Maybe ask the Youtuber, whom you reference, if what is called "Skill suits", and Heavy-Assaults are ineffective, compared to an Infiltrator , I'd love to See Cam's reaction to that claim.

Fastest TTK, at any range, was also claimed here.
Apparently Perfect accuracy is a thing.

You have stated an Issue that Rockets & Tank Shells don't 1-one-hit-kill, but sniper rounds to the head do.
Bias Removed?

Maybe you're following the Idea that to win without fighting is best, and to remove your apparent hard-counter, is to present them as gods-of-war, so you can resume being the rocket-primary?
As apparently that was a grand good time, Pop in, fire, One-shot kill on contact, up-close easily.
But a sniper rifle at long-range? Nah, that's evil.

Why can't TRSpy be like you.
This is quite nice.

So then yes, If we're acting like that is the majority every class but Engineers & LA's, have it constantly, not special.
Unless the time the Ammo Pack is on the ground.
So fine, "Lets go with Majority of the time", if the time is the actually useful moment.
It does over-sell it however.

Then a lot of **** is effectively-invisible.

Not common enough to actually matter, given, sniper-deaths are easier to resolve than most.
It's slow-firing, inconsistent.

Mobility is a hell of a thing.
If you're not suffering return-fire, I'd still take the extra cloak, but yeah that's why people use NA.
Too often , It's been an Amp station, switching between targets, so attack into attack - not as common, but yeah.


Every class has their own little advantage or similar to leverage.

You gave the shortest cloak times.

Heavy-Assault & Medic (Let alone Medic), have a tendency to survive open-combat as well.
LA's & Engineers not as much.


Connery & Emerald VS, would like to have a word, about only threat being interception or sniper rifle.
Specifically the Koreans. As they love to fire at range real casually, with precision.

Eh, if you're constantly being hunted, or changing positions, rather than the furthest hill, Hunter duration becomes a bit more useful.

I'm going to agree on NAC having value.
Indar. Long as hell plains. Hossin, land of "Sweet lord, that ESF is coming"
Yup - But I always mention running vs crouching cloak effectiveness usually via Motion implications.
Situation; Killing VS. When they have the reinforcements that don't end. There has been some murderous days.
If they can fire back, Indeed - But I found if they were, Usually they were way too good at it, to let it help enough.

This is actually decent.
As you actually have points - in every line.
Do you agree with the statement that "Infils" must be removed, as Now I'm curious, it doesn't affect your points, I'm legit just curious.

Very well, you scored your first point on a technicality, congratulations. I guess when you're losing the main points so badly you grasp at whatever straws you can.

Watching someone lash out like an angry chimpanzee any time someone disagrees with them doesn't exactly bring to mind the terms 'helpful' or 'constructive'. 'Unstable narcissist', perhaps.

Good grief Charlie Brown. Is your ego so bloody huge you assume people plot behind your back to get you banned from an internet forum? You're electrons on a web page, whether you stay, go, or get struck by lightning tomorrow is of no consequence to anyone here.
You were called into question because you have a history of dishonesty which so far you have done nothing to remedy. Neither of your chars I linked had numbers anywhere near what you suggested. Both were killed primarily by LMGs (20+%) and Carbines (17+%) with neither having sniper deaths over 5%.

If you want to dispute this with another char or show they are atypical then put up or shut up.

Seeing how you have a history of being a dishonest scumbag who can't even quote people's words properly, I feel no shame in doubting the things you say with no evidence.
If you want to check my stats feel free, my chars are open for anyone to see. If you are unable to figure them out for yourself I'll even give you the ID #s too.

I judge that a person so insecure about their argument that they resort to self-delusion and outright lies to protect it to be far more cowardly than someone who plays a certain way in a video game, but hey, maybe that's just me.

It's not the most played class.
Good Infils are an anomoly.
Most players are Heavy Assault Mains.

Nothing that has been discussed over the last several pages disputes this, why do you insist on pretending it does?

Other classes have more kills, other weapons are more deadly. As I look right now across all servers the HA population has roughly 20-25% more kills than their closest competition. The only notable advantage the statistics indicate is that infiltrators die less, something that is neither particularly surprising nor meaningful.

This I disagree with. I have had both for years, barely touch NAC. The best armor is not getting hit in the first place, and in my experience that is much easier to do with Hunter than with NAC. NAC is great for SMGs and Auto-Scouts, but even then the mobility and stealth advantage of Hunter has something to be desired compared to the minimal health boost NAC gives you.

For motion spotters, crouch walking to avoid them is really not a good idea for the most part. If anyone is really worried about them, sensor shield is pretty good on infils since they can hide from spots and cancel out mini-map dot from un-suppressed weapons.

For the effectiveness of the cloak itself and crouching, you still don't want to really be doing it. With hunter (and stalker) you have more time to do that, which may get you into position, but the second you engage you want the NAC benefits. The truth is, if you are using that playstyle then you probably just want to use Stalker cloak in the first place. If you want to CQC bolt or SMG, you are going to want to engage and disengage in quick succession, and the duration of the cloak really isn't much of an issue at all.

I am incredibly biased as I dislike stealth/cloak in nearly ever game, but especially PvP.
At the risk of sounding slightly care-bear, I think all cloak/stealth are just un-fun mechanics.
In almost all cases, you are forced into reactionary game-play, even if you are a far better player.
If you gave me the option to either completely remove infil and distribute some of it's weapons/hacking to other classes or to leave infil alone, i'd choose the former in a heartbeat.
I do think there are some ways to balance infil, but I would move it far more towards a support role (if equipped with stealth), and far less from a kill from stealth class.

He's an actual narcissist, they don't know how to argue any other way.

Funnily enough the thing about Infiltrators that I believe is too strong is their support abilities. The force multiplier of unlimited motion tracking by far overshadows whatever combat abilities the class has.

Precisely, I would have much preferred the darts would only be possible to resupply at a terminal. Other than the obvious limitation it reinforces the infiltration and hacking aspect of the class since you cannot simply sit on ammo packs putting down darts all over the place. At the same time, it would still be useful because of the cert line improving duration and amount carried + you would have to employ them when and where it matters as opposed to spamming them.

This would also indirectly nerf the cloak since you wouldn't be able to rely on radar all the time to set up ambushes.

Like in the previous thread where someone posted about OHK range of the low magnification BASRs I think the BASRs should be more specialised since the low magn. BASRs have much too long reach (where they pretty much become the only "viable" choice).

Kind of blows my mind that we went from that thread to this, i.e. completely removing the class entirely... Seems like a bit of an overreaction, to put it mildly.

If I could have both, I would gladly take it. But NAC gives enough time to do what needs to be done while also giving you direct survivablity for both engaging and disengaging. This is similar to the flak vs nano debate - yes there are situations where it will help you, but overall you want the latter.

Oh, that would be the first thing deleted. Instead, being able to spot from stealth without making noise, a tool that jams mini-map (not fire-and-forget, if you recall that point from the other thread), remove EMP grenade (or change it) and instead a tool that perhaps disables abilities, maybe one that disables repairing, but requires aim (or not a large AoE). I would allow infils to cloak for far longer, but increase the de-cloak time (and slightly reduce the noise). Things like that.

You are a meme.


If I were you, I would have stayed quiet, and tried to disappear from the internet for a bit.


I overestimated you, here I thought you were simply a troll, or a mentally challenged idiot. You have proved me wrong. At least the latter have some basic for of literacy. I was trying to spark some sort of critical reflection, but you've deonstrated you're light years away from that.


It's a good think you actually replied "'lieu' is Latin, you ignorant cretin." providing a link to a site who's first sentence is the exact opposite of what you firmly state.

good think you did that, you've highlighted the problem behind your persistent spew of nonsense: you can't read.


There's no point in me explaining stuff if you're illiterate. You are a monkey with a keyboard, who's somehow found a way onto the forums. You don't understand what you type, what you use as references, and are far away from using anything remotely related to common sense.

I'll leave it at that, since you can't read anyways, there's no point in writing paragraphs when one simple sentence appears to be a block of indecipherable code to you.


Nothing wrong with not knowing how to read English (or French, or Latin) but you're the first illiterate wasteyute who I've seen try to argue anything by demonstrating their lack the ability to read something any kindergartner would have no problem with.


My cat has better communication skills than you. The day you learn to read, maybe you'll understand why I stopped replying to your random word generator created nonsense.

Ironically, this is the way the infiltrator was during beta, and if I remember correctly during Planetside 1.


No clue why they had to make such a drastic change to the class.

The first lines of your reading comprehension problems aside, it's hilarious to say infiltrators have no counter, so hilarious in fact you can't provide an example of a counter to them.


It's well known MAXes lack effectiveness and are unable to fulfill the role they were designed to accomplish. They are a meme class.


Heavy assaults. They're ore effective than maxes at pushing fronts, but if you'll check the fisu your friend linked you'll see for almost every kill they get, they have a death. Like every class, they have potential when used correctly, but people more often than not overstate the classes's effectiveness.


Are you trying to say that a class who's ability allows them to carefully set up headshots with 1hk weapons, or 2hk with bodyshots do not have some of the fastest ttk weapons in the game? I never said perfect accuracy was a thing, but it's just common sense than the infil will miss far less shots than the heavy.


As an aggressive engineer main, my main deaths are most often related to vehicles and the infamous heavy assault.


To address an issue with the class, point out why, is not presenting them as "gods of war" or even counters to my playstyle. I'm the dude leading the charge, explosives, vehicles and front line fighters are what I deal with primarily. Does that mean there is nothing wrong with the infiltrator class?


Furthermore, I use the example of rockets and tanks as examples of 1hk weapons that were nerfed. I explained how many people complained about 1hk being unfair, specifically with tanks and rockets, which were then nerfed. Why stop there? If 1hk things are really a problem, why keep shotguns, grenades, snipers, bastions, OS, or even to an extent the deci a 1hk?

You have a problem with people being rocket primaries (which is a far riskier playstyle than sniping) because of the 1hk ability, but everything else is fine? What happened to consistency? I suggest either keeping what "should" be 1hk weapons, or just removing them all if they are such an issue.


Also you never wondered why people were being rocket primaries in the first place? If heavies are as amazing as you say, why don't they pop their "double the health" ability and kill everything with their powerful lmgs? Why bother playing peekaboo to get maybe one kill every 5 seconds, when they could down a room in seconds with their primary?


Well, some people as insane as me like to do directives. The best way to do the launchers directive which requires kills is to kill people, since empty vehicles don't count as kills (this means when the tanker/pilot bails, you just lost your kill). That's the reason there were a few insane rocket primaries here and there, and still are now. Except now you need to do a knife + rocket combo to kill ppl, but I'm sure it's no problem for such a powerful class. Instead of looking at the root of the problem and updating the directive, the devs went in guns blazing and broke all the resistances, to accomplish nothing, because people still do rocket primary now, it's just much harder without the deci. AS I said, failure to see the better picture.



A 1hk sniper rifle at long range when most guns don't do anything past 100m is pretty nasty, especially when you add the cloak which makes them practically invisible at those distances. When you also look at the point of the game, the class 'sit in the back and slowly pick off weak targets behind the cover of my cloak' doesn't really blend in with the combined arms gameplay. I guess stuff like the daimyo is a bit better favoring more aggressive play, but overall these weapons aren't meant to actually impact the battlefield, and it's the reason they are usually the go to class for kdr farmers, unless they have a medic buddy.


And then stalkers....you'll have to actually start formulating arguments - and of substantial reasoning - to convince me and others that these contribute in any way to the gameplay.



You think I am "complaining" about the infiltrator because it is the class I die the most to. It's probably the class I kill the most tbh with you, since there's so much more people playing infiltrators in fights than before. But the times I do die to them, or the times I do use them, I must question why they gave the class such power, when it was in a perfectly acceptable state in Planetside 1. And I have come across extremely skilled CQC snipers, which I know are not hacking, but are favored by clientside. These snipers have a far higher kdr and are much harder to kill than extremely skilled heavies. Even when they sense they are at the disadvantage, they activate their cloak, quickly camouflage into the background and redeploy/log out.


From my observations in game and discussions with members of a certain skilled outfit and other players in game, it appears the go to classes for high kdr tryhards is the infiltrator, and the ESF/Liberator - and for good reason. These players are far more into stats than I am, they are extremely skilled and familiar with the game mechanics, one even taught me that if I hopped out of my flaming ESF, I had a split second to log out and it would not count as a death. Tell me that's not some hardcore tryhard advice.

And I mean, does it really take a genius to realize if you give a guy that can cloak weapons with 1hk potential they can effectively take out other classes before they can even activate their ability? The whole point of this thread in the first place was to point out the high velocity, invisibility (or at least hard to spot, because please dude, quit acting like they're wearing neon "I'M HERE!" signs) of the shooters and the 1hk potential of the weapons they have access to cause some certain issues (being dead before the guy on your screen has even fired his shot) when combined with clientside.


I've encountered a few new players who actually left because of this, and the fact they tried replicating it and failed miserably. I try to help people in game, or at least redirect them to channels that do, but not everyone has the patience to deal with stuff like this, which is probably one of the reasons the game is doing worse than in beta. These little issues of "just dealt with it" "they are invisible, you blind fool" or "madcuzbad" aren't causing me to leave, personally, it's not even in my top list of things that this game needs to fix, at least not in my top 20 anyways. Consider however, the others who couldn't deal with multiple of these issues and left entirely. And if you think the game can afford to shoo away players.....

I can only speak from personal experience of course, but every time I try and use NAC I end up switching back after a couple days. I never feel as though I am handicapping myself for doing so. In my opinion calling NAC a straight upgrade in the same vein as Flak/NW is not quite fair.

I wouldn't get rid of vocal spotting, to me it's one of the more clever things they added. It's something a lot of players seem to miss but it's a really brilliant way to reward players for paying attention. You get surprising amount of passive intel when there's enemy infils about before they even fire a shot which makes hunting them down all the more fun.

EMP grenade used to drain ability energy. How exactly would you want it changed?

The fact that I can reveal an entire BioLab/Amp Station fight by myself in less than 20 seconds is an issue. When I'm playing other classes the darts are definitely what I miss most. It blows my mind that so many infils seem to forget they even have them.

They could try reducing the number of active darts a player can have at any given time to one or two and see how that goes. Or perhaps make enemy darts cancel each other out, so if every side spams darts at an area they all interfere with one another and nobody sees anything.

Escalation is easier than concession when you have a fragile ego.

Quiet now, the adults are talking.

*illiterate "adults"


imbecile

When 90% of a guy's replies are insults, and ignorance of previous posts, it really says everything about them.
Somentine is Reasonable. And actually is open to discussion, without near every 3rd sentence being an insult, that completely ignores what they're actually replying to.

And Sometine, does want a similar goal; They're however actually reasonable, in discussing it.

Now, this likely won't matter, as Kane had an excellent point:

Counters were explained when the first time, it was mentioned;

• Infiltrators are vulnerable to return-fire; This is why they engage at long-range, and sneak around.
• Commissioners are one-shot kills with a single-head shot at close-range. Bless that sidearm.
  Darklights are hard-counters to their ability, leaving them exposed while unable to fire.
• Sensor Darts or Other Sensors, expose their location - quite casually, past select infils.
• Land-Mines trigger on cloaked-infiltrators.
• Any Vehicle immune to small-arms, can maul them casually. Vehicles that aren't, still are lethal.
• Every Cloak activation or Deactivation has an Audio-cue, and delay for their weapons - This delay is controlled by the server.
• Any distorted Background, makes them more obvious.
• Closer-the-range, the More obvious their cloaking.
• Having an Ally, as they are duelists - let alone with a Sniper rifle. It chambers one-round only.
• Snipers, in particular are vulnerable to Unpredictable motion, losing their shot - This opens them to return-fire.
• MAXes are not easily killed by Infiltrators.
• Spitfires can announce the presence of Infiltrators in proximity, and will distract or wound them.
• Being aware of them, before they can decloak, switches them into a very disadvantaged state.
• AOE Weapons, can nail cloaked infiltrators - If they're not sacrificing a slot, their shield failure reveals them.
• Anti-Shield Weapons, will expose their position if not packing a specific Slot item.
• Direct-Combat, is their vulnerability, the more they go into more specialized long-range tools.
• Snipers, are vulnerable to Walls & Obstructions; As they can't shoot through them.
• Infiltrators are vulnerable to being ambushed themselves, Snipers in particular have tunnel vision often. like tank drivers.

EMP grenades used to completely shut down their cloaks. Used to.
Predicting their paths, is also quite useful - this also works against any class. If you can predict them, you can more easily see them, or fire a shot to test it.
You know, a list the size of "How to Protect your Tank", is shorter than this one.

The thing is, all cloaks are incredibly powerful in this game. Maybe a more apt comparison would be the default heavy shield vs. adren shield - both are very strong, but one is just vastly better overall.

Since NAC seems to be a negative to you, it could just be that it favours more the meta style of incredibly aggressive (high KPM, CQC) style vs. a more hybrid stalker gameplay.

There is also the possibility that Hunter is more useful against potatoes (or near crops), for obvious reasons.

With the current infil mechanics, I wouldn't either.
In the fantasy land where infil is changed, however, I think it would be warranted, or something similar.

In fantasy land, really no idea. Probably delete it and give the infil's tools (perhaps even some that work from stealth?) that function similarly.

In live, in my opinion it has a number of problems that all stem from it just doing too much.
- Essentially unavoidable (Which increases/causes many of the following problems)
- Explodes as soon as it hits something, making it the easiest grenade to throw in most cases
- Goes through walls
- Removes up to half health (ignoring bionics/cara interactions)
- Partially blinds
- Destroys all small deployables (makes mines explode)
- Disables larger deployables

Now if I had to slowly change this, i'd get rid of the vision impairment and going through walls/objects. Maybe, maybe, I would make it only remove small deployables (so that mines wouldn't explode), but that problem more comes from a) bad mine placement and b)that it hits them through walls.

Ok, I'm glad I'm the only one insulting you guys, and I'm the one demonstrating my ignorance. The problem is, you guys have avoided any comment related to my points, and considering the other dude has proved his inability to read/understand stuff he's quoting himself, you're going to have a really hard tie convincing me I'm alone in my ignorance.


Please refer to me a single point where you have actually replied anything concrete to what I have said? If you even read that is. Each of your replies have been 'no, you are wrong, I am right' "I can see infiltrators easily, everyone else is a blind fool and a liar". 'No, you are exaggerating'. 'You hate infils'. 'you've made another thread, an commented in other people's treads about the same issues'.

Do you notice you've never once actually explained yourself, or managed to back yourself up with any evidence? The very evidence you guys link yourselves indicates the exact opposite of what you said, and when I point that out suddenly you forget about what you were saying, or I'm a liar and the worst of scumbags.


I'm sorry you don't like reading other people's arguments, but don't come into debates without actually debating anything, and give me your hypocritical 'well you're bullying me and I really wish you were like this other dude who shares y opinion". Buddy, I'm not alone in realizing there's some issues with the class, you can just scroll through the forums and see I'm not the one who even started with the "balance the infil threads" and I won't be the last to make one. But of course, I guess those other guys are just "insane" ******** who fail to see your reality.



1)"infiltrators are vulnerable to return fire, this is why they sit at range that makes the return fire more of a tickle than anything else, and use their cloak to avoid being a target". Solid point dude, totally got me there.


2) Just like he got mad when I said snipers were a 1hk and brought up the unlikeliest of scenarios, he forgot to add this reality here: infil can equip aux shield, so you can't 1hk all infils with the revolvers, especially not those with NAC. Darklight are "hard-counters" to the ability when they work (aren't bugged like they've been for a while), and have very little effective range (less than 6m if I remember). People only pull them out if they suspect an infiltrator is around (usually because the guy messed up), and if you can't avoid their range or use the cloak to reposition yourself and kill the/run away while they are slowly patrolling with their darklight, then yes, I guess you've found yourself a "hard counter" to infiltrators within shotgun range.

3) Sensor darts and dildars can spot infils without a certain implant, and are ironically locked for the class. Yes, you could use the detect bolts on the crossbow, but I got flamed for suggesting those could actually be useful, so we can just say the class can counter itself. What an anomaly.

4) Land mines trigger on cloak infiltrators. How is that a problem? Why does this even belong in your argument? You've pointed cloaked out infiltrators are the easiest of thing to see, you're going to then go on to say that because they can detonate bright flashing mines when cloaked, it's fair? Ok, yes it is. And I could even argue that the stalker infils would have more time to react to them, since the ones that wish to remain invisible move at a slow pace and crouch.

5) As a vehicle, it's not really hard for a person that knows what they're doing to be able to kill infantry. It's not infil specific, and as I said any times, the infiltrator's cloak allows them to avoid that danger with greater ease than any other class.

6) The delay is controlled by the server. Wow, we get to the exact point of the original post. As for the audio cues which are bugged half the time, yes they exist. The problem (like I said) you bring up is the servers, which due to the delay often give the de-cloak and their queues only after the infiltrator has instagibbed you.

7) As I mentioned in another thread you dug up, they become more obvious to see based on certain settings. They will be easier to spot using this feature on higher graphics settings.

8) At close range (how close is determined by your settings and the lighting at the base), it is more obvious to spot infiltrators, at leas those that are moving and not crouched. Great, and then we get to the point that they don't solely operate at "close ranges".

9) The rockets/tanks also chambered one round only, and did not have a magazine. See what that did to prevent them from getting nerfed. Having an ally who would rather have a tough dueling with another infil instead of picking off easy kills sounds great.

10) Snipers, just like any other class in the game are vulnerable to random movement and server spikes that can throw off their aim. Sure, snipers can be more affected by this, since they spit bullets at a slower rate. However, provided their shot misses, the infil has the built in ability to disengage and reposition themselves thanks to the cover of their cloak.

11) MAXes are pretty vulnerable to snipers, you can go check that out in game or in vr if you really think it's my objective to "lie" about in game reality. Going for headshots, you can down MAXes in a magazine with your sniper. MAXes are simply too vulnerable to be pulled without support from engineers and medics, which is why they are a rare occurrence, and don't really belong in this discussion anyways. As people have pointed out, they are a "meme class".

12) Spitfires don't recognize a cloaked infiltrator. They can also be hacked, and easily fooled by running around in circles as you hack them. Sure, they can be used to spot an infil who wasn't paying attention to their surroundings, just like they would with any other class, to a lesser degree than the recon devices. I'll admit whatever genius decided to give every class access to spitfires has lead to some pretty cancerous stuff, and is an issue that should be addressed, either by removing the aux spitfire or reworking it to make it actually different than the engineer ones.

13) Rest of your points about revealing infiltrators are true, although you really must admit that wasn't the primary focus of the, and based on the sniper playstyle, they're usually either really unlucky or poorly positioned if those things are actually a major issue. They also just "reveal" and infiltrator for a split second, which means often times the infiltrator is able to run randomly to escape.

14) Yes, I did specify it's not often you see some effective infils in direct combat, unless they are really new or really skilled. This is exactly the reason I was questioning their belonging in a game with a combined arms focus. As you mention, infiltrators lack the fast killing ability to do any major impact on a battle. Their only team-oriented purpose is sharing minimap info with darts and hacking. Let's be honest here, as you point out, most of the time the class sin't actually in the fight. They are using their recon devices for themselves, and rarely expose themselves to hacking terminals, since it is one of their most vulnerable activities, which as I mentioned, the last thing a kdr focused class would want to do. I can't tell you how many times a friendly infiltrator has sat there without hacking anything, no matter how you ask them and offer to provide protection.

15) Ok now, I'm glad you think I'm ignorant and don't understand anything, but when you use the statement "they can't shoot through walls" as proof the class is fine... The only thing that can shoot through walls are certain grenades and the bastion/OS. Saying the class is balanced because the can't shoot through walls...by that logic, I'm fairly certain the heavy is balanced too, unless I'm lying again. Again, the infiltrator has an easy time shooting though small openings (like windows) in those walls that other classes.

16) Finally your last point is something I can totally confirm. Many infiltrators do have tunnel vision, just like many tanks. It's really funny that even with their proxy radars and the occasional spitfire turrets some camping tanks put down, you can usually just walk around a tank (or drive up from behind the) and just C4 them. Same applies to infiltrators, if you can find the right flanking route, you can usually surprise a few snipers who aren't paying attention to their mini-map. It's usually something most new/intermediate snipers do. However, unlike the tank, they can spawn in again for free, and continue doing their think a few moments later. And does it not bother you that a free class has the same playstyle and a camping tank?



And please, quit referring to illiterate kane guy, who has testified he can't read a simple dictionary definition -that he himself linked. If that's not a sign of arrogance, ignorance and pure stupidity all in one, I don't know what is. There's no value in quoting a fool.

"'lieu' is Latin, you ignorant cretin."

You're going to use a guy who can't read, or doesn't bother to read what could have eliminated at least some stupidity to what he is saying to validate your posts. I'm glad you've found your buddy, but it changes nothing to the fact that someone who can't read, much less understand what he and others are saying, isn't really fit to debate. Maybe when the guy can read a sentence correctly, and actually counter my points instead of avoiding his previous replies, I'll find him useful in giving you credibility I can see why you guys are circle-jerking yourselves though, you seem to have a very similar mindset. 'The stats say this'...no comment when I prove them wrong, or the 'oh, you thought those mattered'? Along with the "I never said that", then reaffirming the same thing I called you out on 2 posts later. But sure, hide behind the fact "I'm lying", "ignorant" and a "narcissist" for simply pointing out your contradictions every other sentence. And yeah, you guys seem way more free of bias than me.

And I'd like to point out, you still haven't addressed the issue the post brought up, and have done little ore than say 'you hate infils, and you'll dedicate your life to ruin this perfectly acceptable form of play'. Buddy, you can check the forums, I'm not the only one calling them out, and even that doesn't counter the points I've brought up to support there is a problem.


You can really quit acting like what I post in the forums will be implemented the next day, the devs don't even bother reading this stuff, and if they do, I'm sure this series of 'you're dumb', 'you're blind', ' you're ignorant', 'I'm right you idiot here's why': clicks link, literally the first word in bold contradict him wouldn't do more than generate a laugh from the dev team. Since the beginning of the "discussion" you guys haven't formulated a single argument that you don't contradict yourselves, yet I still go through and explain the reasons why they don't hold up. If you think 'you don't play the class, and you hate the, how would you know' is a valid argument to why there's a problem with the cloak and 1hk ability, then I suppose everything I say will be a "lie" or "mean and ignorant'.

Really I' just pointing out inconsistencies in mechanics, and it's not something I 'solely focus on', nor do I have a 'deep hatred for the class'. I'm simply pointing out aspects where it doesn't seem to work, just like I've done for many of the game "issues". I've mentioned before, I've completed directives for each class at least once per faction, and I've played the planetside franchise long enough to at least have a basic understanding of what the game is about. But sure, keep accusing me of lying and being unreasonable without actually countering anything I say, and keep ridiculing yourselves commenting on stuff you don't even take the time to read (or simply can't) and comfort yourselves accusing the guy who actually proved he's had a slight educational background in contrast to yours of being the ignorant one.



It's no wonder this discussion goes nowhere, if like your buddy, you can't read. Only lack of fundamental concepts of literacy could explain why we're at this point and still haven't managed to generate anything productive based on the original "call-to-attention" of this post, and why you can quote sources that contradict even the most basic of things you firmly claim.

one more thing, because I do enjoying lying, ignoring and insulting your posts:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/PKrqneaZz5QuuoGZ9

please test out the infiltrator on low settings in vr, both with and without deep operative, when crouched. The infiltrators do appear invisible, and the same thing occurs with players crouching inside the sunderer's cloak bubble.

For this reason, I have been able to score some funny kills from inside the cloak of a bus, surprising enemies. Since it can even go through walls, it's something that can be useful to ambush people who try to hunt down sunderers at some bases.