[Guide] The Liberator - 10 reasons for why it is a poor design

I like the AA as it is right now. Nowadays I drive Skyguard or walk around in AA MAX more often than I fly aircrafts and I like the little cat and mouse game between AA and aircrafts. Only complaint is the lack of engineers to fix my MAX when I get damaged. That's why I prefer Skyguard when it's possible to use one since I can always repair it myself. Repair stations inside spawn rooms (or why not around other parts of the base) could alleviate this issue and make burster MAXes more appealing. We did have repair/medical stations in Planetside 1 that healed infantry/MAXes when you entered them. They were located just next to the main entrances and around the main staircases of bases.

I have no idea what this is, I didn't even pull a lib today. I did shoot at some with a Skyguard, maybe I killed someone with debree? No clue.

This is balance discussion? Are we game developers or something? I'm just a player that shares his opinion. I'm not proposing any nerfs or anything, in the end it's not for me or you to decide. I do state, though, that this game would highly benefit from no-air continent, with big no-vehicle zones.

Then all we would have left to do is convince the devs that MAXes are gamebreakingly imbalanced and play happily ever after.

I know that liberators are extremely frustrating to play against. I have a lot of experience of fighting them, doesn't this provide me with at least limited insight?

No, you don't. You know what else you don't need to do? Be so condescending.

Where do you think devs get their feedback? Developers don't (always) just roll dice and out of whim change things, hoping players will like it. The Liberator updates have caused a lot of discussion on the forums, so I'm sure developers are taking notes.

If you are willing to put up with MAXes (and perhaps light vehicles?), I've heard about battle isle concept in the works by SOE that would introduce areas where vehicles are restricted (AFAIK). In Planetside 1 these small "continents" contained several islands each containing 1-4 bases with lattice links between them. These areas restricted the use of vehicles to lightning, harassers, empire specific combat cars, ESFs, AMS (sunderer) and resource vehicle ANTs. Not sure if they are going to completely restrict vehicles from Planetside 2 isles altogether. Not even sure if I've misunderstood the idea of battle isles being more about infantry combat or just about outfit versus outfit.

Actually here's a (modified) picture from Planetside 1 orbital map view:





Here Oshur is the "battle isle continent" containing 4 smaller than continent islands, each with 1-4 facilities. But I digress.

It does. But that's where it ends. It will remain limited until you yourself expand it.

I'm sorry.

Hahahaha...you know that the image fits perfectly to what you said? You think cause you have played both sides more, your opinion is objective? No my friend...sorry...it's not. It's still just YOUR biased opinion in YOUR world(that's called "creationism". Well...at least among scientific sociologists/psychologists....religious oddballs use that word for some crazy theory.). And since you obviously like to play air(likely due to its rewarding superiority), it's not very surprising that your opinion is as it is.

Me and my Shrike beg to differ.

Shame I don't see many other dumbfire rocketeers out in the field. Land two shrikes on a slow/hovering lib and it's easy prey for any nearby flak/ESF.

Yes it is my opinion. However my opinion is based on something. It's my opinion which is based on experience of playing all roles. Your opinion is far more biased towards only one way of playing than my opinion, which is based on experience of playing every role. A player who has first hand experience of playing every role has far less biased opinion of the game balance than someone who refuses to experience the game from someone elses point of view and thus refuses to put things in perspective and look at the whole thing objectively.

Simply you don't have any idea what you are talking about if you don't have first hand experience of playing, so why are you here?

Creationism is the concept that universe was created by conscious being, acts of the divine. You don't know what you are talking about and, whats worse, you are bringing it to argument. A fallacy.

Incorrect assumption. These days, vast majority of the time I am playing on the ground as infantry or driving a tank. One reason I don't like flying all that much is that I suck at it. That goes for both ESF and Liberators. Every time I pull ESF or Liberator, I get owned by more experienced ESF 360noscope420yolo4lifekiddies or get 15 heavy assaults locking on me and heavy AA fire forcing me to leave or I get destroyed. Another reason why I don't fly Liberators is that my native language is finnish and the IRL friends I play the game with don't like gunning for it all the time. Having a random guy not shooting at the things I want him to shoot at is frustrating to me, and thus not enjoyable. If I was more comfortable speaking (mumbling) english through microphone to some completely unknown person, I might fly it more. But alas, I actually play infantry most of the time simply because it is less of a hassle.

So I repeat: I know what I am talking about, where as you don't. Why are you talking about what Liberators can and can't do when you don't even fly one? You don't know what it is like to fly one and how difficult it is. You just don't know what you are talking about. Your ranting comes off as a kid that has opinion with poor or no basis for it.

You sound like someone who got killed by Liberator couple of times, probably in a fight that was already lost simply because of the overwhelming player numbers and thus couldn't retaliate, got your panties in a knot and now you are foaming in the forums, spouting nonsense about how OP Liberators are, pretending like you know anything about them other than getting owned once by one.

Bullborn stats
Most Vehicles kills - Prowler
Most used - Prowler
Highest Score - Prowler
Shots Fired - Prowler

Bullborn post
Complains abuut Liberators.


Setting up burster nests on hilltops next to your base whilst leaving the base to get captured. The MoX way...I see Squishling is in charge of tactics nowadays. Damn, wish you had Flails eh? Then by the looks of it, thats what you have used prowlers for. Spamming bases has done you well.

For shame. When did MoX become a farming outfit? When you merged it with role players against the wishes of 90% of the members maybe? Where did everyone go??? Heh

Muppet.

Ye i think he will forget you pointed this out. Its not like it completely invalidates his argument

I love my lib. Always tell people its my favorite vehicle from any game that I've ever played.

I think liberators are fine. The only problem in this game is that vehicles have different capabilities in different sized fights.
You have to keep in mind that AA, and flak in particular can often shoot from 1 hex to 2 hexes further away, and that flak is present on almost every base nowadays.

Liberators are not that fast either, and if they have flak armor they trade it for auto repair. The time it takes to turn a liberator 180 degrees and go in cover is high enough to often lose 50% health, given there are 2 burster MAXs.

This game is made to play as a team, so use the AA effectively. Don't shoot right when they render 700 meters in front of you. Wait until they are close enough to take more than 70% of your shots.

1) Yes. Same can be said about ESF. Or even MBT to certain degree.
2) Lib pwning 1-12 fights and utterly sucking in 48+ problem was there since beginning. Nothing new here.
3) MBT if played right can pwn every vehicle in the game too. If you find some hill, it can shoot even ESF and Libs...broken much? (though Lib buff vs tank shells was BS)
4) Composition you mentioned will effectively create no-fly zone to EVERY air, not just a single Lib. Please stop making things up.
5) Yes
6) BS. Actually it's the other way around. Lib is often hit by invisible Skyguards. And your lock-on range is exactly the same as infantry render distance for that Lib (300m). Again, please stop making things up if you don't know how they are.
7) Or changing the course of battle, one would say. Also someone who's most used and highest score vehicle is Prowler comlains about farming.....hmmm.
8) Yes.
9) Here we go. Another "gunning Lib is easy mode". Have you ever tried it yourself? Oblivious ground targets with no AA do not count.
10) BS. Lib creates whole new skill ceiling. Lib's effectivenes scales very much with skill. But yea...I understand that design "bad without skill - very powerful with skill" is frowned upon and people like no-skill-performs-always-the-same design.

A good lib crew will just shoot you out of the Air, although the Mozys slightly smaller hitbox probably does help.

1. You are comparing a new player with a "Decent Lib pilot" and are probably talking about a Certed Lib here. Stock one will have issues against stock ESF for instance, then there's the level of the pilot's skills. I think this comparison is not valid.

2. The Liberator can be effectively hurt by even Basilisks, on a Sunderer or Prowler, which a single Infantry can use. Then there's AA turrets. Assuming same Cert/Skill, this would be very easy. Oh but this is not Infantry right? Wrong. Individual soldiers are meant to use all Classes/Tools available. If 1 soldier could effectively put hurt on 1 Lib of the same Cert/Skill, we'd have a problem- Like we did prior to Lib improvements. If you want C4 Launchers for AA I have no sympathy for you ;P And if they make Libs as fragile as ESFs then give them the same characteristics ON TOP of what they have as there are very valid reasons why ESFs are fragile. Auto-Repair is junk, if you're not using Armour you're bait to every person of every Rank manning an AA turret or stock, sloped MBTs/Lightnings. Frustrating to meet in smaller fights, but not more than a Lightning Viper or a Harasser with Fury. C4 will eventually get those but not before they manage to frustrate as many people as a Lib would, until ESFs arrive. By the way C4 is not exactly stock and a bit expensive to use so again the comparison is strange IMHO.

3. What did I just read? Vehicles can't take each other out except Libs? Single FREE Burster VS Certed Lib and you wonder why it won't do the job? And again you're ranting in your comparisons, too vague and generic. MBT Snipers taking out Libs and you want it to be easy? And I manage to deter Libs with Walkers lately just fine, I do it with Basilisks too and probably better in many occasions. Have you wondered how nice it feels when you see an MBT as Infantry and can't even blink before you're shelled? InstaKill. Why are you not complaining about that too?

4. You're joking, the only reason this could happen is driver error and C4 - And really C4 is OP but you can't hold it against the Lib and count it as a reason to make them paper planes. Apart from C4 I've NEVER, EVER been beaten by a SINGLE person in any of the vehicles you mention except with C4. That's a C4 issue, different story. Also having used the Lib a lot I can tell you it's frustrating to fight AA Squads of the composition and sizes you mention(And even less organized and smaller Squads not dedicated completely to AA). Render. Distance. Dodging behind terrain? You're the one on foot, find some cover. If you can't, it's your fault like it would be the pilot's fault for not using terrain. No, other vehicles have it easier. As an MBT driver all I have to do is find a rock and play Peek-A-Boo with you. That is literally all the "Tactics". C4 aside, all land based vehicles can only be deterred effectively, not out right destroyed unless there's user error(Including GREED) or there's an organized ambush. Which is the same for Liberators. Ambushes including Infantry and Burster MAX playing Peek-A-Boo from Spawn Room.

5. Did you just say "LIB PS2GOD REST SUCK PLZ NUFR" with more words? I am starting to think there is not even a reason to begin explaining to you why what you said is basically wrong.

6. A lot of us have also been slaughtered over and over by a Lightning lobing Viper shells from a safe distance or an Engie on a Bio Lab dome using UBGL, staying completely out of sight and working with arch of fire and angles. Positioning OP Don't compare Libs with AV MANA, it's definitely NOT the same.

7. Like many other vehicle mechanics you mean? Including the Galaxy equipped right? Right now those are worse in fact. Also; LOLPods, Lightning ETC ETC. I too am annoyed by "Random Things" but you and I both are playing an MMOFPS. Did you just bring up the Duster to back up your arguments about Libs being OP?

8. Spawn Camping is the issue here, not the Lib nor any other vehicle for the matter.

9. You are complaining saying that Libs can't be effective on average 1/3, but that they are when 2/3 or more, which is OP, conveniently forgetting about Tank Buster being a pilot's responsibility? Also I can't agree with you, there are much easier places to be that won't result in crashing, like manning Fury, Halberd, BullDog, Basilisk ETC.

10. The 9 reasons you state are rubbish, C4 and Spawn Camp issues being correct and having NOTHING TO DO with any unit more than any other unit in PS2 as a whole. You have already broken certain boundaries of being "Dramatic" and doubled that when you compared them with not only AV MANA but also BFRs.

There you go, a couple of reasons explaining which bad mechanics new players are not able to deal with and some bad attempt to explain why you think Libs should be hit hard with a Nerf Hammer for bombing you.

Have you actually invested in Libs? Have you flown one? Gunned for one? Have you given one a good run, a bad run? You'd be surprised how fast it can go bad for Libs and for how many reasons, all RANDOM too. Because MMOFPS.

EDIT

TLR : ERMAGHERD ZE LUFTWAFFLE! NERF BC Y DONT THEY DIE TO MAH PEWPEW!!!

Just fix the Dalton so it ceases to be an Air-to-Air terror weapon.

Either that or make the belly gun unable to fire if the lib is outside a certain firing profile like PS1.

These things would make the Liberator far less fearsome.

I don't mind liberators, if i get hit by a dalton round. Im driving reckless/ running in the open, If you got the sligthest situational awareness, you can see the thing approaching. Since it is.... Yes big.

Else i think when you have a Liberator, they're flying certs if they ain't protected by other ESF's, just stay out of tank busters sight including the rear and belly gunner seat, and lolpod them, gives results for me, and even hate messenges or even better, be an ******* and hit on weak liberators, if im in farming mood, i just circle around in my Reaver and wait liberators to get damaged by friendly AA, when swoop in and hit them with AA missiles as they escape, they rarely have flares. And watch XP and kills rack up, pretty awesome when you manage to pull em' off.

This... Is... not... a guide!

It is a list!

And this is not planetside!

No other vehicle is a gunship...

1+2: In the first you say that new players have no decent AA. In the second you presume that most players have tank mines and C4. That does not make sense. If people can afford C4 and Tank mines they can easily afford lock ons and skyguards.

2: 1 player can't do anymore damage to an 2/2 MBT than he/she can do against a 2/3 lib. Excluding spawning from a gal to C4 Fairy the tanks below. Which is the equivalent of galaxies ramming libs.

3: Libs vs other vehicles. This one I can kind of agree on. ESFs aren't effective enough against libs. And skyguards kind of lack the effectiveness at range.
I propose some AA gun that is better at fighting bigger slower targets at longer range but would suck against faster smaller targets like ESFs.

4: No. A single person could not do more against an MBT than they can do against a lib. And if tank players were as risk averse as lib pilots you'd only ever drive them away too. At least if you don't pull an MBT yourself. How do I know? Because that's my style of tanking. I stay far away and don't overcommit.

5: Compare Air vehicles to air vehicles and ground vehicles to ground vehicles when it comes to speed please. Comparing Air vs ground in that regard just doesn't make sense.

6: Again agreed. We need some longer range AAA gun.

7: Not made for farming any more than stuff like HE tanks; C75 viper and maxes.
Besides if the lib is attacking infantry it has to be within render distance. If it is that close you have no excuse for being "farmed". It is easily killed by the amount of AA that should be in a 48+ vs 48+ battle.

8: EVERYTHING is good at spawncamping. Infantry can do it the best btw because they can cut the enemy off even in places that are off limits to air. Like any base where you can get out of the spawn room and into another building. So just about any base. Infantry has libs beat when it comes to spawncamping.

9: Well you can also turn that around and say that if the pilot and gunner aren't communicating well that that is it's biggest downside. I honestly don't see how that is supposed to be an advantage.

10: Since in my view most of your points fall flat I can't help but disagree.

Oh and before anyone tries to call me an evil lib farmer: I have 80 mins in a lib. 16 kills. So don't event try to discredit anything I wrote by using that. (not that an argument like that holds value regardless)

No, it is not! But you know what this would be?! A fun and competitive game!

I agree, and its a problem. Vehicles/MAX's in PS2 are waaay to much of a crutch compared to infantry play.

But thats not what this thread is about, its about libs specific being OP/broken compared to other vehicles/MAX.

Just like ESF's, if you die in an ESF you either bad or got too greedy.

Libs "use" their health, while ESF "use" their speed/agility and multiple defensive options the result is the same. And yet i see ESF fly and engage ground targets in +48 enemy areas and getting away, something a lib will never be able to do. Yes the ESF will only get 1-2 kills and can only do it very few times, but they can still use their speed/agility, flares and small profile to get in and out of situations that libs simply cant.

You have to compared libs to other vehicles, since i think you dont want to talk real infantry-vehicle balance.

Other then a small minority, most ppl dont want skill to be the deciding factor in PS2, they rather want "balance" to be about who has the best/biggest crutch.

The lib got a role: its THE air-to-ground vehicle, just too bad the ESF is nearly as good. Then ofc the lib needs to be nearly as good at AA as the ESF.

We can talk about how air cant be countered in PS2, except by other air units and thats a problem.
I agree, and i want an truely effective soft counter to both lolpodders and libs.

But dont make it about the lib, its about all air units.

Your quotes are wrong, fix please.