Yeah none of that makes up for the 2500 damage. God help you having to aim for a while before sending 5 fire and forget missiles off to ruin some poor reavers day (Who probably just spawned said reaver) Down with the striker, and down with the lock-on mechanics, It's all a big medley of ****** up and the TR are the only ones not losing because of it. Your faction has ground and air completely under control on my server (Ceres) Nobody expects to survive for long in their ESF here and when our Tanks start beeping we've learned to just ****. It's ruined the actual fighting aspect of the game. This sort of domination is just unbalanced. No words will sway the masses, everyone hates this crap. Give the other 2 factions the exact same weapon with a reskin and see what happens.
Detailed look the Striker. A comparison to the Annihilator as a baseline. Striker Lock-on Time: 2.25 sec Time to fire 5 rounds: 3.25 sec (500 dmg per round) Reload: 5.0 sec Total Damage: 2500 dmg Total Time: 10.5 sec DPS (238.1 dmg/s) Annihilator Lock-on Time: 3 sec Reload: 4.7 sec Total Damage: 1200 dmg Total Time: 7.7 sec DPS (155.8 dmg/s) The Striker does 52.8% more dps then the Annihilator. The shorter lock-on time for the Striker is a definite advantage as well. This combined with a much larger first volley hit means the Striker is even more effective. Up to date game data shows the Striker (5.03 KPU) has over a 66% Kills Per Unique player advantage over the Annihilator (3.02 KPU). The fact of the matter is the Striker has the highest dps of all lock-ons, and by a fair margin as well. It has 22% higher Dps then all the standard G2A lock-ons of each faction. [1500 dmg, 7.7 sec, 194.8 dmg/s, (2.5 sec lock-on, 5.2 sec reload)]. The Striker has single handedly moved the entire air game to a decided TR advantage.
As for the Strikers effect, here is the up to date data on the matter. Strikers are likely the single weapon with the largest effect on the game. Strikers single-handedly move the entire air game and likely give Prowlers the breathing room for more use and kills. Oracle of Death Source http://www.planetside-universe.com/s...=56268&page=19 Rocket Launcher Data From GU14 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...RLUpXR3c#gid=0 Strikers are by far the dominant ESRL with the biggest use and kill footprint in game. This is particularly impressive since Strikers cannot directly kill infantry and pilot/drivers can bail from a locked-on vehicle to avoid death. As for effect the Striker is most likely the cause for the following. ESF Data GU14 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...3UEppSGc#gid=0 TR Mosquito's about 30% more effective at killing ground then Scythes or Reavers per pilot (KPU). Or another view, TR in terms kill foot print (105000) get more ~75% kills versus VS (63000) or NC (59000) with just considering rocket pods. Liberator Data GU14 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2QVdLV1E#gid=0 Likewise this effect is found in Liberators with TR having a significant edge. MBT Data GU14 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...QX3dJZlE#gid=0 Strikers a likely the cause for the Prowler use and performance due to it having to face less air and ground vehicle threats. This Striker edge severely punishes pilots for flying against the TR. It is not an enjoyable weapon mechanic shooter or target. The Striker needs an overhaul. -The most consistently proposed change so far on the forums has been a fracture like Launcher giving the TR a nice close to mid range launcher with damage granularity. Likely it could keep its 2500 dmg (500 higher then the decimator) and retain a superior projectile velocity but trade that for having to land 5 shot to do more. Reload times would be adjusted to compensate. -Another proposal would be a tracking dart (similar to recon tool) as the alternate fire. The rockets would then track to that dart. Darts would last 5-15 sec and can attach to players or vehicles. Regardless of the change, something must be done to correct the situation the Striker has created.
Funny how my point (the disadvantage of the striker) just gets ignored... And if you wonna judge DPS you use Anihilator cause it has the worst DPS. The whole DPS thing is a lie as long as you ignore the fact that DPS skyrockets when using dumbfire. You compare the 2500 dmg that need a few secs to launch (dont know the exact RpS but it feels like those 5 rockets need at least 3 sec to launch) to single rocket launchers. Seems discussing with you guys is useless, all you want to do is anti striker propaganda...
About strikers : I hope ESF update will help to balance it. About vulcan : Remove all ES guns from harassers (bad move from the start) and retune down damage Vs infantry which is ridiculous...
How many ESF have you shot down with dumbfire rockets? Your point gets ignored because it is irrelevant to the topic as it's actually you who is ignoring the problem. In case you did not notice, the striker is a pain in the *** because it makes it impossible to fly over TR territory for longer than 10 seconds without exploding, it's lock on range, damage output, and the damn no clip bug make it a colossal pain in the *** for anyone who isn't TR to fly.
Already mentioned in the other thread in vehicle discussion, but since the same numbers are posted here a short version: - Annihilator seems rarely used even by non TR, so you compare striker with a underperforming weapon to make it seem op - First 2 rockets better chance to hit, last 3 increasingly worse - Even after ignoring the "0 hit" scenario due to flares/smoke the calculated DPS from striker isnt showing the actual ingame dps reached (should be toned down by 10-20%, an average of 4 rockets/volley would be a more realistic scenario than all 5 hitting) - higher dps/dmg compensate for the disadvantages of striker (split dmg, harder to hit all 5 rockets, longer exposure time, longer time for the enemy to react) - also higher dmg/dps would be the only reason to use striker, making its dps and/or dmg worse than other launcher would make the TR esrl totally replacable/useless, giving NC/VS an advantage rather than balance it.
folks call the striker Op because it bugs out a lot with clipping through terrain and not registering locks, Weapon isn't overpowered just bug ridden. And before you say i'm posting this because i'm TR, I main NC only.
No, I am comparing the Striker and Annihilator because its is such a good control. These two weapons are very similar (same tracking, same target selection, same fire style) with only a few key variables difference (lock-on time, dmg, reload). Strikers as compared to general G2A Launchers, they do 22.2% more dps, have different tracking algorithms, and the biggest issue a different target selection range. This does not seems to be very significant precisely because the missile tracking for the Striker is so good.For Striker Behavior Refer to:http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1hfk62/as_i_understand_it_a_completely_unbiased_view_of/Only Striker and Annihilator missiles use the advanced tracking Algorithms, this makes them extremely difficult to dodge (basically you must Line of Sight them twice to successfully dodge, an extremely tall order btw). This is also likely the reason why there is particular bug of remaining 4 missiles requiring and hitting after flare effect drops (flares make air invisible, no LoS) only occurs with the Striker, as the Annihilator only has one missile which is always successfully flared off.Regular G2A use a much simpler trailing target method (terrain can reasonably be used to dodge for this). Actually the is precisely where the data disagrees with you. Between the Striker and Annihilator by dps difference of 52.8% you would expect the Striker to perform ~50% better, or less if going by your assumptions. But the data clearly shows this not to be the case, the Striker (5.03 KPU)has over a 66.6% Kills Per Unique player advantage over the Annihilator (3.02 KPU). If anything the shorter lock-on time for the Striker (2.25 sec) vs Annihilator (3 sec) and damage per volley Striker (2500 dmg) and Annihilator (1200 dmg) explain the edge the Striker is getting. Once locked you get 3 seconds to fire all missiles despite not having LoS, with the Striker/Annihilator tracking those missiles will still likely hit. Refer to Striker Behavior link. Again the tracking algorithm on Striker missiles are so good that they mostly all hit. This is not considering the bugs where they can hit through flares and clip through terrain. those only add to Strikers effectiveness. This Striker edge severely punishes pilots for flying against the TR. It is not an enjoyable weapon mechanic shooter or target. The Striker needs an overhaul.-The most consistently proposed change so far on the forums has been a fracture like Launcher giving the TR a nice close to mid range launcher with damage granularity. Likely it could keep its 2500 dmg (500 higher then the decimator) and retain a superior projectile velocity but trade that for having to land 5 shot to do more. Reload times would be adjusted to compensate.-Another proposal would be a tracking dart (similar to recon tool) as the alternate fire. The rockets would then track to that dart. Darts would last 5-15 sec and can attach to players or vehicles.Regardless of the change, something must be done to correct the situation the Striker has created.
At first: I´m sorry, i didnt want to make it sound offensive. Maybe the amount of people not using any actual arguments in those "nerf striker" threads annoyed me a bit. You say the tracking is the same, but because of the tracking the (later fired) striker missiles 3-5 will not have a lower chance to hit? I dont think anyone can doubt that the chance to hit will be lower the longer you take to fire your rockets. If you want a bug fixed: I agree. But if you want to balance a weapon around a bug that should be fixed is not the right thing to do. What would happen if they indeed would balance this weapon while the bug is still there? And maybe other weapons too? What would happen to those "balanced" weapons as soon as the bug is fixed? So we shouldnt take bugs into account while talking about balance. Bugs cant be balanced they have to be fixed. I used the striker a lot the last few days just to get some data on it, this isnt a representative number (not enough shots and affected by personal playstyle), but it shows the difference between potentional and actual damage. Total amount of attacks: 35 Rockets hit: 2: 8 times -> 8000 damage 3: 9 times -> 13500 damage 4: 5 times -> 10000 damage 5: 13 times -> 32500 damage I didnt include 0-1 rocket hits since the annihilator wouldnt have hit this targets either. That means these numbers are at least a bit comparable to an annihilator always hitting its target. Very good tracking indeed, but nowhere near "mostly all hit". In over half of the attacks 4-5 of my rockets hit, but the average damage and dps will still be lower due to the situations where not all rockets hit. 64000/35=1828 average damage/attack 1828/2500=0,73 So my average damage is 73% of the potential damage, the dps should be around 73% of the "potential" dps too. So according to your calculated dps it would be 238,1*0,73=173,8 actual dps in my case. 11% more than the calculated dps of the annihilator. Since it is a "no skill weapon everyone can use" it shouldnt be the fault of my generally lacking skill in fps games. I dont really like this spreadsheet numbers because there could be a lot of reasons for it and we can never be sure which factors are involved. I think that striker is indeed stronger than annihilator and of course an overall strong rocket launcher. Higher dmg, higher risk getting shot, higher reward. But that alone wont explain such a huge difference. The shorter lock on time seems to be indeed a good advantage. But i dont think this alone would make such a huge difference either. Maybe part of it would be the potentional dmg. If all 5 rocket hit you have a high chance of getting the kill if you arent attacking the target alone, while annihilator cant do anything except aiming for already heavy damaged targets to really get kills efficiently. Another part would be the way the striker is used. Since many TR use it in their standard loadout (or switch to the striker as soon as they are in the open) most vehicle/aircraft kills will go to the striker, especially some of the easier targets like libs, sundys or gals are often hit by all 5 rockets. Not only carry these vehicles the most "potential kills" but also get the hardest hits from striker. And yet another part: Around 20k user of dumbfire launcher of every faction. Yet the KPU from the TR one is higher. Does this make the dumbfire launcher stronger? Up to 0,4 difference. We compare numbers of launcher with 6k and 3,3k user, a much lower amount and therefore have a much bigger uncertainty. Also how exactly did they consider the time used? If an annihilator user fires 1 single rocket, gets a kill and never uses it again it is a KPU of 1? If a striker user fires 100 missiles, gets 10 kills out of it, KPU of 10? Not sure how these numbers would say anything about balance then without any factor like "average time used". That are the factors i could think of. There might be a lot more. How can we say anything certain about balance through such a spreadsheet? I wont say anything against an overhaul. I dont really enjoy using lock ons either. I just disagree with the "nerf striker to oblivion" stuff, which would make the TR esrl worthless.
@LenaQuinn The faster lock on time is a bigger effect then you think. Lock-on time for Striker is 2.25 sec. Lock-on for Annihiliator is 3.0 sec. The Striker will have 2 rounds in the air before the Annihilator can even fire, and is capable of firing all 5 rounds despite no LoS if it can stay locked-on with LoS for 3 sec (time required for Annihilator to fire). Remember you can still fire lock-ons for 3 sec after loosing LoS. Now back to Striker, in your analysis you are not accounting for the missiles (1-2 that you got off the Annihilator could not even fire at). You would have to revise your analysis to this and somehow manage to recount all the Lock-ons you manage to get off that would not have fired with the Annihilator. Simply put to do this test properly you would have use the Striker for a long period then use the Annihilator for another extended period of time under similar conditions then compare the results of the two. Even then as this just one person and with only one playstyle (error) it would take an immense amount time and effort to pull off and get an inadequately large sample size. Oh wait, I got it why don't have your entire outfit do it, no wait how about your entire faction, no not big enough, how about the server, nah not enough, how about EVERYONE on all servers for over 125 hrs. Track everyone's kills with every weapon and who uniquely uses which weapon. Then compare the two and see what you get. A massive sample with an excellent metric to compare weapon performance Kills Per Unique (KPU) user. What do you find regarding our specific case? That IS the complete data, it is a very good sample, it covers the ENTIRE game. It has a large enough player pool that it washes away outliers and inconsistencies. It shows a 66.6% gap between Striker and Annihilator. If you don't like, it you can spend the thousands of hours it would take to generate a statistically meaningful sample yourself just to compare the Striker and Annihilator. Still as the end of it all this spreadsheet would still be a more accurate measurement as it cover the entire game. As for Launcher users 0.4 difference is roughly 10%, that is between the highest TR and lowest NC (VS in the middle). That is pretty damn good, if you could say there is any interference, it is likely from the Phoenix which also overlaps a bit on the close range in this case "guided" dumbfire roll. Now back to the core of it. The Striker has lead to this. Rocket Launcher Data From GU14 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...RLUpXR3c#gid=0 Strikers are by far the dominant ESRL with the biggest use and kill footprint in game. This is particularly impressive since Strikers cannot directly kill infantry and pilot/drivers can bail from a locked-on vehicle to avoid death. As for effect the Striker is most likely the cause for the following. ESF Data GU14 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...3UEppSGc#gid=0 TR Mosquito's about 30% more effective at killing ground then Scythes or Reavers per pilot (KPU). Or another view, TR in terms kill foot print (105000) get more ~75% kills versus VS (63000) or NC (59000) with just considering rocket pods. Liberator Data GU14 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...2QVdLV1E#gid=0 Likewise this effect is found in Liberators (identical across factions) with TR having a significant edge. TR are are getting a defacto air dominance in the game by the presence of the Striker. The Striker NEEDs an overall. If you are advocating the Striker mechanics and core influence remain unchanged, then you are also advocating that TR deserve better air power.
The fix today won't change anything meaningful in terms of the Striker's ability to deal damage. The fix today is mostly superficial (though needed) in effect. It is just an accurate visual path for the shooters rocket that everyone should now be able to see. The terrain clip bug occurred when the shooter (infantry render at 300m) is out of render range of target. This change will not change much. The advanced tracking algorithm for the Striker missiles allow it to dodge and fly around terrain such as tree branches, buildings etc. which will now be properly present for the rocket dodge around rather then pass through (as before) through if the infantry shooter was more then 300m away. For Striker Behavior Refer to: http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/1hfk62/as_i_understand_it_a_completely_unbiased_view_of/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yoERRVeDmk Only Striker and Annihilator missiles use these advanced tracking Algorithms, this makes them extremely difficult to dodge. Basically you must Line of Sight them twice to successfully dodge, a task that extremely difficult to do. This is also the likely reason why there is particular bug of remaining 4 Striker missiles reacquiring and hitting after the flare effect drops (flare effect makes you invisible, i.e. no LoS). This only occurs with the Striker, as the 1st missile is always successfully flared off. Regular G2A launchers use a much simpler intercept target method (terrain can reasonably be used to dodge for this). TL-DR: Striker missiles will still hit you all the same. You just will see it dodging around terrain and hitting you instead of flying though terrain and hitting you.
