[Suggestion] Skillless kills

I am not suggesting nerfing BASR. I merely stated they're skill-less BS. There is no room to nerf them, then they'd just be scout rifles. Though, I might not find a body shot being a bit less devastating, but that isn't what I view as the problem with them.

The issue I have is inevitably, in any sort of field combat, if I want to fire on an opponent I will have to reduce myself to nearly motionless (ADS speed) and thats when I get killed by snipers. I have no counter to this, I spend most of my time outdoors attempting to make myself a less appetizing target...which must look freaking crazy through the scope.

On your other hand, I think AP mines have the exact same level of skill required as teh BASR. Prey on the unaware. Instead of moving erratically to counter it, you must move slowly and methodically. Frequently kills targets distracted by other engagements. I've always been opposed to OHK mines, but at least now they no longer fall through the terrain or share the same color as the surface they're placed on...which really goes a long way for me.

PA Shotguns...have been nerfed. They are significantly harder to abuse. The Crossbow is a dumb weapon that has no purpose in this setting. I don't think it's OP, just ********. Commissioner 1 shots on infs require you to be within knife fight range...in which case a 1HK knife would work just aswell.

As for cannons. No, those are working as intended and are attached to extremely visible targets.

I would like to see how you do with a BASR then.

It is easy to call it skill-less when you don't use it yourself.

Because I derive zero enjoyment from hunting the wily barreled fish.

I doubt you will find much success if you try though

On the serious note, there is one simple counter to those pesky skilless BASRs.

Do not fight on the open terrain as infantry. This game is not ArmA, and there is literally no reason to stick to those 100m+ shootouts with LMGs and ARs. Even assuming that you remove snipers, it takes at least 6 bullets to kill even with most hard hitting automatic weapons, not considering nanoweave. Firefights on these ranges are not lethal in any way and wounded target is very likely just to take cover, recharge shields and continue.

If you want to really push that base, get an armour column, push, breach the killzone with sundie and set it up in the dead zone. Or bypass it altogether with galdrop and hold the point.

It only takes cooperation.

Man, you guys are really trying to drive me to sniping. I've done it. It isn't fun. Neither is gunning a liberator for that matter. There's a reason I avoid those styles of play. I've even stopped leaving AP mines every where (when I'm not playing INF)

You speak of tactics, but lately on Emerald TR, there seems to be one tactic. Zerg. Outside of my one friend who routinely flies Galaxies I really don't see them occuring, maybe I'm just on at crazy times. But yeah, I realized infantry being outdoors is no longer an acceptable outcome and started to re-equip my tanks so I can do something other than redeploy, sadly the most fun I can have in a tank is running people over and the gun is simply not as amusing.

It never was in a first place. Well.. maybe when smoke spam was decent, but even then farmvision would see through.

People tend to drive you to sniping because you have to know and understand your enemy. Usually if i get sniped it is pretty obvious to me where the bullet came from.

I'm not questioning where the bullet came from or what action led to my death. Merely that fact that outdoor combat is strictly forbidden for any infantry that are not snipers. >_< Before they removed my ability to maintain implants I spent a lot of time slowly crawling my way to where snipers were roosting and shooting them in the back of the head with the Commissioner. But now it's a bit harder to stay in their territory without precious regeneration.

This is how this game is designed. And if snipers would be starved of target-rich enviroments, most would die out anyways.

I just don't see how you can say that this takes no skill unless you have absolutely no idea what sniping is like.

To the OP, nice try. But once you give someone something for free it's hella hard to take it away from them. Best answer to your complaint IMO is patching in protection for outdoor terminals and ....something for vterm exit mining.

Gluck with any other OHK mechanic though, people are addicted to max rewards for minimum effort, so they will scream like children being deprived of a lollipop.

I find it ironic that your name is basically the opposite of what you seem to want in a game.

Honestly, I think PS2 would actually be better if it was closer to a milsim than the odd mish-mash of Halo and Battlefield that it is right now. Then people wouldn't complain about OHKOs as much, because they'd be everywhere and constantly dishing them out themselves. Getting killed in the blink of an eye doesn't feel so bad when your enemies don't seem to regularly eat magazines for breakfast.

That and we'd have things like prone, longer render distances, a use for scopes higher than 2x, and hopefully people would learn to apply military tactics like holding fire until your whole squad is ready to start shooting, staying in positions that are easy for medics to reach, and not silhouetting yourself against the skyline. Oh, and everyone would get actual camo instead of being forced to run around wearing bright red and yellow.

Forbidden for you, maybe, but clearly not for the vast majority of players who still have big infantry fights outdoors using all classes, every single day. We don't seem to experience the same severe limitations that you do. So if you want people to take you seriously, please stop exaggerating.

I would argue that envoirment awareness is a skill as well, and if you keep getting shot by snipers you need to learn how to avoid this. If you keep moving in the same way, taking on challenges the same way, and keep getting shot by snipers. Why is it suddenly their fault for you repeating the same behaviours? When I get killed by an infil it is usually because I was being careless in a hot zone. For instance, if you run to a vehicle terminal after capturing a base and get surprised the opponent didn't just go "OK, we lost, better leave them alone so they can prepare for the next attack. Wouldn't want to make it harder for them to mount an offencive, would we? Nah, that would be so scrubby. We better wait till they have spawned a MBT so we can fight fairly, single infantry vs tank... Yeah!"

Your meaurement of skill is pushing that KPH further and further but you are also using a class which is, by far, best suited to do this. I am sure versus a medic or engineer, they'd feel your rocket primary/overshield/concs is a crutch. I mean, when I play LA/Eng/medic/infil(with close range weapons) I have to constantly adapt to HAs.

Overall, I think we need to look at the various classes through different perspectives. For instance, do you wait for players to notice you, or announce your presence? Cause seriously, shooting people in the back is so scrubby. I mean they weren't looking in your direction. So skilless. You should have let them recharge their shields, repair their max units, and set up mines and turrets before going in... And definitely do not use any grenades because that's just for scrubs, right?

"I would argue that envoirment awareness is a skill as well, and if you keep getting shot by snipers you need to learn how to avoid this. If you keep moving in the same way, taking on challenges the same way, and keep getting shot by snipers. Why is it suddenly their fault for you repeating the same behaviours? When I get killed by an infil it is usually because I was being careless in a hot zone. For instance, if you run to a vehicle terminal after capturing a base and get surprised the opponent didn't just go "OK, we lost, better leave them alone so they can prepare for the next attack. Wouldn't want to make it harder for them to mount an offencive, would we? Nah, that would be so scrubby. We better wait till they have spawned a MBT so we can fight fairly, single infantry vs tank... Yeah!"
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This can apply to anything. I hope you never cried about old scatmaxes, pre-nerf Banshee, or old zoe. I hope you don't cry about heavy assaults. That's why I don't use this fallacious argument, as I do cry about some of these things which are blatantly overpowered. You need to use your positioning skills to destroy an OP ADAD Orion user. Take him by surprise, if you do it right his extra 750 health points which amounts to 6 bullets from a 143 will be nothing. Lets take the 143/800 damage tier for example, in a second 13.3 rounds will be fired. That's a bit less than half a second extra ttk. That's even less if you're using a 143/845 like the Serpent, GD7F, or Cycler TRV. The Lynx ttk is between 143/800 and 143/845.

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Your meaurement of skill is pushing that KPH further and further but you are also using a class which is, by far, best suited to do this. I am sure versus a medic or engineer, they'd feel your rocket primary/overshield/concs is a crutch. I mean, when I play LA/Eng/medic/infil(with close range weapons) I have to constantly adapt to HAs."

That's what i'm supposed to do. I'm supposed to put myself in higher risk situations with my HA OR my LA, I use the class's benefits to it's advantage. I don't go around throwing ammo boxes when I am in 1v1s, I don't try to jetpack over a guy's head when he's shooting me. I guess you can apply this argument to the infiltrator taking out people at a terminal, but then I think that's not really comparable to a light assault risking himself tower stomping or an HA charging into a room. When I play HA I have to watch my back and the ledges of buildings constantly, so I have to constantly adapt to infies and LAs.

"Overall, I think we need to look at the various classes through different perspectives. For instance, do you wait for players to notice you, or announce your presence? Cause seriously, shooting people in the back is so scrubby. I mean they weren't looking in your direction. So skilless. You should have let them recharge their shields, repair their max units, and set up mines and turrets before going in... And definitely do not use any grenades because that's just for scrubs, right?"
Looking at my playstyle, I'll be shooting people in combat situations where it's their fault they didn't look. I don't like placing "fire and forget" mines in irrelevant bases or camping terminals at passive bases. What I do puts me at risk, an infiltrator camping a terminal while sitting somewhere comfy in a hill isn't really a shining example of positioning, skill, and wits.

That's pretty impressive, I see a very good headhunter who isn't camping terminals like a ****lord from a mountain somewhere

Interesting, so a Sniper that Positions themselves at a base to Slow down/ delay people getting vehicles they can use against their forces isn't being useful?

Strangly enough I've been useful sniping for my squad, when I'm able to provide overwatch (thinning out numbers trying to approch where they are attacking/defending, Sniping those engys/ Medics on a Biolab pad giving my defenders some more breathing room to try and push back out.. etc.) Just because you get annoyed from it happening, does not meant it isn't being useful. Sure they may not be on the front lines, but just because they are not in the middle of the action doesn't mean they are being useless. I know when I counter snipe each sniper who's head I keep down is 1 less trying to pop yours.

Sure the respawn rate is quite fast in this game, but I've played this enough to see the balance of power swing quite fast from just a few key things getting killed or removed for even a couple seconds.

This is my point, from your perspective you feel a certain way about what it means to position yourself, kill, use strategy/tactics. A sniper's role is to be an assassin, and it isn't exactly the most noble activity on the battlefield. Indeed, infils start out with less health and their close quarter weapons are inferior to all other classes(bar SMGs which everyone has access to).

Personally I think it is very boring to play sniper, and will often only use a sniper rifle to counter terminal campers or enemy nests(like burster MAX, engy turrets, HA lock ons, etc etc). I tend to stick with a full auto scout or close range semi auto/BASR, as I think the infil is that much more useful when he is EMPing choke-points, provide darts, and harass from where others can't.

I did have issues with ZOE and Banshee, but not because of what they did, but because they were incredibly powerful. A lone infiltrator is not very powerful, especially not if your own infiltrators lay down darts and your friendlies actually check they didn't leave any enemies alive. Most tend to be caught completely off guard when someone shoots back as well. I've gotten so many hackusations because of this, like "How did you find me?!!!?!?!?" Like it takes some genius to find someone who's been camping the same spot forever.

In other words, I see where you're coming from but I don't think it is particularly hard to counter the terminal camper. Plenty of easy counters.

How does getting killed in a blink of an eye make for a good game? And yes, it does feel bad, every time, because you got wrecked with no chance to actually PLAY against that player. If you choose to just blow it off 'cause you think it's fair that you can do the same to someone else, that's fine, but you can't deny the feeling exists.

And please don't take my nick as some sort of proof I want a hardcore military sim. I can have that any time by playing a hardcore military sim. I want PS2 to be a better version of PS1, not the mishmash of Halo and BF that the developers thought would be cool n'stuff n'get the CoD and BF people in to play. That was a horrible idea, because those people already have their game to play, and PS2 is never, ever going to take any significant part of that market.

Far better that PS2 had continued to be a one-of-a-kind game, as imo it would have all of the players from those games that don't like getting killed in a blink of an eye, but still want to play a shooty game. That's what would get them in, and the depth and variety of gameplay plus the outfit connection would be what kept them going.

But no, too many kids have grown up thinking CoD and BF define what FPS games should be, and some of them became FPS developers :\

I can deny that feeling exists because for me, it doesn't.

When I get headshotted by a sniper, I say "Alright, either I stood still too long or they took a good shot. So congratulations to them, or I need to do better."

When I step on a mine, I say "Alright, I didn't watch where I was going well enough. I'll do better next time."

Etc.

You see, it's all a matter of mindset. There's the mindset of "I want to have a skilled, intense duel", and there's the mindset of "Half the battle is over before it begins". As (what seems to want to be) a team-based tactical shooter, PS2 follows the latter philosophy. At least I should hope it does, given that I've played ****** browser FPSes which do a better job at duels.

I have yet to die to anything I could not possibly have countered, in all my 2600-odd deaths. That makes for a very low chance that such a method actually exists. There is always a counter. It might not exist once combat is initiated, but at some point prior to that you could have done something to avoid it or even turn the tables.

Once you get the bullet drop down, its as simple as just waiting for someone to stop moving. As soon as you stop to return fire, tink you die.

I have 700 or so kills with a BASR so i know how it is.

Its really not even about how much skill it takes, which i would still assert is lower than any other type of fighting, its about what an unsatisfying way it is to die, and how it ruins fights.

Its impossible to fight in the open as anything but a sniper and even then there are so many counter snipers you will probly get sniped.

Fights would be more fun for me if i wasnt getting sniped constantly. I like fighting outside.