Shotguns are Planetside's "Noob Tube"

This is what you are not getting: There should be NO end all be alls in a FPS game. That's what we are saying.

You can theorycraft all you want, (and by the way, vehicles dominate long range play, not snipers - play the damn game sometime) but at the end of the day, your choice of loadout should matter, but not to the extent that choosing a shotgun does.

Also, please post your stats. You've talked a lot of nonsense about carbines that indicates you haven't used them. So yeah, I'm going to ignore your half-hearted "analysis" until it is grounded in some actual experience, or really anything more tangible than "here is my made up world where only shotguns and carbines exist".

I hate shotguns. The game was better off without shotguns. As I see it, shotguns ruin the otherwise pretty good gun-play in this game. IMO, the game was more fun when the only shotguns were on Scatmaxs.

I absolutely agree. Shotguns were something that no one asked for and something that the game did not need. Carbines were the default close range option and should have stayed the default close range option.

That said, I believe we can find a place for shotguns in this game. And that is as a SMG ranged, high mobility weapon (hipfire) that trades sustained DPS for higher alpha damage and better shot placement at the maximum of its effective range. It doesn't quite make sense in theorycraft world, but trust me: put me in cover (or on top of a tower stairwell) with a weapon like that and I would be able to do some serious damage.

See: The sweeper/JH from Planetside 1.

Shotguns dont really bother me. A lot of players without very good aim miss their shots when you hipfire and ADAD around them and past 10 meters I kill faster with my carbines anyway. I also encounter them not very often. I use them sometimes but just for a couple of specialized loadouts for tower fights or something. My pump action shottie is auraxiumed but thats it afaik.

Also I am not sure what you are trying to achieve with this thread. The chance of shotguns getting removed from the game is close to zero. The chances of nerf are also close to zero because they already lack alot of versatility in most places. You can complain about it but yeah thats pretty much it. Try focus on having fun instead

I hate sniper rifles, the game was better off without them, seriously who wants OHKs from miles away with stealth? if you want to remove shotguns you really need to support the removal of snipers too, which I'm all for.. I'm so tired of those rookies 1 hitting people with no risk to themselves.

Have you even used this weapon? Tell me when you get 1000 kills with it have how overpowered it is. Its range is pathetic and its damage is mitigated to represent its fire rate compared to the other shotguns. Triple shot is stupid a complete waste of ammo and UNFORGIVING. Better pray you dont miss with it or your dead. It is unforgiving and can be OUT DPS'ed by a spun up chain gun AT ANY RANGE! If your more than 5m away from your target 1v1 head to head any weapon will beat this. I mean FFS the knife does more damage at the jackhammers effective range. You have a MAX 2-3 kills with this 2 if their both heavy and shielded before you have a massive reload and your left standing with your pants around your ankles.

Im so sick and tired of you forum warriors coming onto here and bad mouthing a gun you have NFI idea about other than "it killed you it's OP". This weapon has had nothing but nerf after nerf due to forum whiney children. After spending the MAJORITY of my time using this weapon since it was introduced into the game I can tell you that the standard shotguns ALWAYS will beat this weapon point blank shot for shot.

This weapon is VERY situational and by that I mean you have to use it like a spear anything longer than that and your a dead man shot for shot. It shines at point blank range and even then you need to get the jump you will be lucky to get 2-3 kills compared to the DPS capabilities of other weapons in the game before reloading. Not even mentioning the hit detection ISSUES that plague this game that can render your shots completely useless.

The extended range you talk of is so DAMN small that it means absolutely nothing in the scale of PS2 when 2 bullets from most assault rifles can drop you instantly.

Also BTW this weapon does suffer if you are hit in battle. 1 shot into you from anywhere will blow out the COF and aim of the jackhammer making that damage and shots even less. So you better hope you get the first shot in or you are dead once again.

That's the beauty of it being a video game. Things can be changed.

You say "shotguns are designed for indoor fighting", but they don't have to be. They can be made more like real life shotguns, which have a dinner plate sized spread at 200 meters. That makes them useful outside. What if, in Planetside, your Jackhammer lost damage, but gained the ability to reach out to 200 meters? Wouldn't that make it more useful?

I know I'd like that as someone on the OPPOSING team as well, because I wouldn't be getting instakilled by the Jackhammer every time I got near a HA with it.

As someone who gets killed by the Jackhammer, it is the most powerful weapon in a Biolab by a long, long way. Against an enemy with the Jackhammer, I die before I can put 2 bullets into them. It deals an insane amount of damage in that triple burst, and within 10 meters you have NO chance to counter it.

That triple burst? It has a DPS of approximately 5000. Five THOUSAND.

Don't believe me? Do the maths. Burst fire rate of 451 RPM equals 7.516667 shots per second.
7.516667 multiplied by 112 damage multiplied by 6 pellets = 5051.2

Yes, it only fires 3 shots, but it deals that damage SO FAST that you have no time to react if you are within that kill range.

Because you say so? Lots of FPS have OHK or low TTK weapons. Besides, Planetside 2 is a combined arms game above all. There will always be a lot of "imbalance" regardless of how many tears you will shed in order to make sniper rifles/shotguns disappear, weapons that rely on instant death explosive damage are a huge part of the game. Similar thing can be said about concussion or flash grenades (EMPs too, but to a lesser extent), since these give you an insane advantage in combat that is barely counterable.

And I fail to see how shotguns that are ineffective outside of 15m mark are end all-be all weapons.

Clearly we need to remove sniper rifles and VEHICLES! They are so "imbalanced", obviously that's a bad gameplay design. Infantryside 24/7.

As for theorycrafting, isn't that what we are supposed to do when discussing gameplay solutions on these forums? Anyway I wasn't the one to propose the changes I talk about in here, I guess that makes you both theorycrafters too.

It would be fun to see you struggle with making actual points and calling me out on this "nonsense" I speak about carbines (like what exactly?), but you keep on throwing fits and insults like a big crybaby you actually are.

You can access stats of my current main by looking my nick up on planetside-intel, Players don't work for me since the DNS issue in Europe and I don't have a dasanfall account/entry. I don't really care much for stats since I'm in no way a "pro" nor somebody who aspires to be one. I maintain a steady 2 KD (usually I average 2.5 and above now) with pure infantry focus (no outfit) when playing on a laptop with old mobile graphic card (GeForce 740M) and lame processor (i5 4200m), that force me to use the mix of low/mid settings for 26-35 FPS performance. I'm also constantly GPU limited in big fights and CPU limited for like 2/5 of the time outside of them.

I don't have anything to hide. You can't possibly think I will feel offended with being called a "newb" by a mountain dew pissing, dorito shi**ing MLG tryhard.

How about we keep them "more like real life shotguns" in terms of close range damage and leave them as they are? We don't need shotguns at medium-to-long ranges, these can be dominated by guns that have higher accuracy, more ROF and velocity. We don't need sniper rifles to be more usable in pure CQC, too. Shocking, I know.

Shotguns are just about the easiest thing to be good at in the game, you hardly even have to aim. I'd be up for a range buff and damage nerf on shotguns, believe it or not real shotguns are much more accurate than the ones in-game.

They are just a bit too good at what they do, but they can't do anything other than what they do currently. So decreasing the spread and decreasing the damage would allow for them to be less situational, and they wouldn't be an instant death sentence if someone walks into a room with one.

The only time I use a shotgun is when we're outnumbered 2 to 1 or more at a tower, because I can easily run out and get 3+ kills before dying.

DON'T YOU ******* DARE.

The shotgun is my gun and you will not touch my weapon choice.

They are just PERFECT right now and they need no modifications, don't you dare call for a nerf on my beloved gun that I never leave spawn without.

its the only good starting weapon the NC gets.

Its 3 rounds per second burst fire with reload (You would know this if you used the gun the number given on the wikki is based on not having to reload/chamber the weapon just solid nonstop fire) assuming all the pellets hit the target (WHICH THEY NEVER ***** DO) at 112 damage. For a grand total of wait for it 1008 damage per second. Now lets see what its sustained damage is over say its entire clip. You get 3 lots of burst off (which is a waste because most targets take 4-7 shotgun rounds to drop due to pellets not hitting the target even if your crosshair is on them making you use 2 bursts to kill in semi mode (WHY I NEVER USE IT)). With each class having 500 health and 500 shield.(Not including heavy shield or any mitigation). But for the purpose of this lets say every pellet hits their intended target point blank range. That's 3 NON HA kills before having to reload this weapon 4 with extended mag. Thats 3024 total damage potential damage without extended mag and 4032 with in a perfect world HA.

Oh did I mention if one of your pellets misses in burst fire your damage drops to 896DMG below the kill rate and you will die.

Compare this to say the TR chain gun. Which deals out on spin fire mode with 143 Dmg per bullet and 100 bullets. 14300 Potential damage. With 800RPM with this in spin mode 1906Damage per second.Oh did I mention this weapon does ranged damage as well.

As someone who uses this weapon and understands its capabilities I'm going to call BS on this entire thread. If you get killed by a JH you were outplayed plain and simple.

You need to remember it shoots multiple pellets though which get shot randomly into the cof so unless the enemy completely fills it its you can actually miss entirely even at point blank range while aiming perfectly, yes its unlikely but possible. And as for the triple burst it IS powerful but if you miss you basically just die as you do a weird little click.

Well, exceptionally boring rudeness aside, I did find your character and it confirmed my expectations. Please get more in game experience (and a better computer so you can actually play the game) before posting in balance threads. Then, you will understand what makes shotguns different from vehicles, grenades, and sniper rifles. Thanks.

I just hope that SOE doesn't change the shotguns and that they close this thread since the shotguns are perfect

shotguns give the common rabble a chance (assuming you dont miss with that there pump action in hugging range and plan your attack out) against career HA's that have double the TTK and a weapon that is more usually more accurate than yours, shoots with a higher RPM than yours, has more DPS than yours, and works at all ranges assuming they can stop drooling on a keyboard and let go of the fire button for quarter second to reset the CoF so your commoner butt can get rekt from 100m out with all that 750+ rpm "built-for-close-range-or-thats-supposedly-it" goodness.

shotguns promote thinking and aiming instead of just twitch. and it seems there are those that dont like that

Its funny to see people who have never played a HA comment on heavies, our guns are average and our shield gives us about 3 more hits so about 0.5s increased TTK. They have AWFUL hip fire (well NC and TR do.. VS have it good there) so we need to spent time ADSing to shoot even at point blank, and at range the recoil means it becomes a pain to keep on target.

Get off your high horse and learn how to construct substantive arguments instead of throwing in some exceptionally boring "git gud" comments. Thanks.

No. You are not correct. Yes, it fires 3 rounds. But it does that in FAR less than a second. It fires all three rounds in 0.399 seconds. (Approx 0.4 seconds) That gives it a fire rate of approximately 7.5 rounds a second, within that initial burst. It fires 6 pellets each time, each pellet doing 112 max damage.

Use those numbers. 7.5 x 6 x 112 = 5040 Damage per Second. It doesn't MATTER that it only fires 3 shots. DPS is a measure of the RATE of damage that can be inflicted. And the burst inflicts damage at that rate.

It isn't the TOTAL damage that can be delivered in a a second that makes the Jackhammer overpowered at close range. It is the rate of damage. It can do 2016 damage in less than 0.4 of a second. No other weapon comes close to this damage rate.

And saying that all the pellets NEVER hit the target is also incorrect. If you are within 10 meters, it is very possible to get all pellets on a human sized target if you aim for the torso. It is actually pretty damn easy. Try it in VR if you don't believe me. Aim at the targets, and see where all the shots land.

I know what I'm talking about. You don't understand that Jackhammer as well as you think you do.

In real life, shotguns are NOT close range damage beasts like everyone seems to think they are. Shotguns do NOT have the ability to penetrate body armor. The advantage of a shotgun is that they fire multiple pellets so that they can score a hit on a hard to hit target, for example when shooting birds.

They are NOT close range cannons that movies (and most games) depict them as.

I don't think you understand. Changing shotguns in that way would just make them higher alpha SMGs. Close to pointless since we already have tons of guns to fill that gap. If shotguns were not extremes weapons I would not use them and would use something more powerful like a CQC carbine...

I don't use the BASR because I want a slightly slower shooting semi-auto, I use the BASR because I want to shoot you once and make you dead. Same with shotguns. I am not gonna used an underpowered smg for CQC, I want to use a shotgun. One shot, and if I miss you can hipfire me to death since the range on shotguns is beyond pathetic really.

EDIT:

No offense, but those ideas will do everything other than "fix" shotguns.

1. I see where you are going with this and what you are forgetting to add to this is **** ton of alpha damage shotguns do. They will still be "wtf" weapons that are near instakills because they do an incredible amount of alpha damage up close. This change would especially **** over PA shotguns which already take a decent amount of skill* to use.

2. Unless you change damage fall off this changes basically nothing.

3. Ok, we need to establish what you mean by "players killed before reloading." The PA shotgun, under optimal conditions, gets 6 kills to the mag. The semi/auto shotties get 6-12 kills per mag. The Lynx gets between 5-10 kills per mag. The variation of kills per mag is great. Making it 9-18 kills per mag is borderline insanity, which is why I wonder if you thought this through all the way.

Shotguns, in all reality, are probably fine as they are and there are bigger fish to fry other than the fact that a weapon within a 10m range will kill you faster than your weapon that will kill them faster all the way out to render distance.

*Skill mentioned is positioning and timing skills, not twitch skills.