Revert the Saron to a single shot high damage

Just for the sake of it, I'd like to mention that the RoF, accuracy(CoF) and explosive damage on the PPA is all sub-par to the Marauder. The only advantage (and apparently it is the most important one...) is that the PPA has the sustained output and no bullet drop (woo it matters for once!).

So if you're going to complain about something with the PPA at least do so for the part of the gun that's actually better than the alternatives.

the problem with it being to much like halberd seems to be more a problem of it being equal to other factions weapons, when vanu has something that's not sub-par it's OP more or less.

It is even more ugly on the mag. It sorta fits with the van and prowler.

Enforcer AV, at range, against a SINGLE target.

Both direct hit 2HK, Enforcer AV has better velocity, and enough rounds that missing a couple times (avg acc 25% needed) doesn't impare it like the Halberd.

PPA is obviously better at AI overall, because there's usually need for a LOT more shooting. This is how AI guns should be better. the ability to engage infantry with sustained fire because there's so many of them.

Please try and read my posts fully. I never said Enforcer AV was objectively better, I said it was as good as in a very particular limited situation. Furthermore I was using it to point out the Canisters lacking capability for it's supposed role.

Why use a Canister which only has a few more rounds, MUCH less effective range, ZERO AV damage, all for the ability to OHK an infantry so close you could run them over?

ooooh

Yeah, I run Saron just for looks

I.... I know all this. I specifically stated against a singular target with a guud gunner, the AV Enforcer is actually the Vanguards best AI option.

That's all I'm saying here.

Canister needs range normalization. Some explosive splash damage, since it's not effected by range, would be a great way to achieve this IMO. It could also use more rounds. 15 base cert to 20.

Maybe I'm the only tanker left from release. I remember when the Saron was every Mag's primary. 350 m/s and no drop, oh yes, that was a horrible time, when combined with the ability to scale every cliff and perch on every ridge. No, I hope we never go back to that.

um, my chart has point blank saron having the same dps as the vulcan (well 1 dps higher than the vulcan). That is a VERY outdated version of the vulcan though. Give me a few days and I will grab up to date numbers and post a more relivent numbers.

the enforcer has a 1 second refire time, the saron takes 0.5 seconds for its bloom to completely reset. The sarrons RoF for pinpoint acuracy is twice the RoF of the enforcer.

They don't share resistance tables (medium AV and APMG), and since the vulcan has changed in the last year that's probably not correct atm.

Edit: I swear I saw a thread about newly compiled resistance values, but the thread seems to have vanished for some reason. :/

It would be nice if we could get more recent data on resistance values. What'd really be nice would be if the devs made them more accessible to us so we didn't have to reverse-engineer them in VR.

https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...-damage-resistance-table.198343/#post-2881620

I'm sure you've already found this but it's also for others that don't know it, also note I don't think ALL the values are correct and may be because of human error or typo but I'll have to double check that.

Well, at range it is very unlikely that you will be able to land 2 direct hits on infantry at all (if you take the vehicles and stationary targets away from the stats the avg. accuracy will be nowhere near the 25%) and killing someone with splashing the area is much easier with PPA, so...

But never mind, you obviously meant to say something else than I believed to read. I hereby apologize and withdraw my accusations, sir

To be fair, the actual version of Canister is way better at AI than Enforcer up to 70-100m and behind this hunting an infantry with both of them quickly becomes moot. But the AI advantage is not high enough to justify the drawback of no AV damage, you're right. And the Vanguard with Canister is still not a valid choice for AI work, however, and even if you really want to pull one you would be better off with Kobalt on it.

Not counting in the trolling factor, of cause, which is huge plus going for Canister, no questions open here

alright so Raw dps of enforcer, saron C(lose), Saron F(ar), and halberd are

dps
406 Saron C
355 Enforcer
338 Halberd
299 Saron F

dps max reload utility (% increase)
454 (12%) Saron C
372 (4.7%) Enforcer
363 (7.3%) Halberd
324 (8.6%) Saron F

burst dps (time to magdump)
1420 Saron C (1s)
568 Saron F (2.5s)
500 Enforcer (7s)
--- Halberd

working in values for resistances you get the following, with cells color coded by damage order, with green being the highest, followed by yellow, then orange, then red, then white.


I did color code the burst dps vs phalanx wrong though (enfocer out dps's the vulcan), sorry bout that


As aditional notes the vulcans best dps increase is with reload utility (not magsize increase) for a 5.7% increase, and it has a magdump time of 4.425s


Edit: Also I just used the vulcans rpm of 800, and used its short range damage. So i dont have the the vulcans spin up time calculated into this, I dont even know if 800 is what it spins up to, or if it starts at 800 and goes up to somethign higher.

Also all three empire specific AV guns had 300 m/s muzzle velocity with halberd at 275. You would think a bullet based gun would have higher muzzle velocity.

If you want a halberd, Put the damn thing on your tank. Stop trying to break the one thing that makes a mag even slightly effective against armor. You loved it. Pretty sure the rest of us hated it.

I loved the old Saron.
Aside the shooting delay, it had pretty much the stats the Halberd has now, while the old Halberd back when had a massively higher drop. Maybe more AOE, I don't know.
In a textbook bait&switch (or the other way around), SOE, changed the Saron to something completely different, called it a buff, then changed the Halberd to pretty much exactly what the Saron was before, +25 m/s, + drop, then quadrupled the price of the Halberd.
-.-
Well, it's not gonna change. But I'd still love at least a modded Saron that has more or less the old stats. Or Halberd stats, if you want, which comes out the same.

The difference between the Halberd and Saron the day before the Saron was made into a 6-shot gun:

• Halberd had 75 m/s more velocity (275 m/s like today) than the Saron (was 200 m/s).
• Saron had a 0.25 second fire delay.
• Halberd has drop, same as today.

And that was it.
Damage: Identical, both direct and indirect.
Total cycle time (reload and reload+delay): Identical, and it was 3.25 seconds.
Because the delay wasn't modified by the reload cert, the halberd had a tiiiiiny advantage from that cert, though it was minor.

Since the newest VS trend is charge weapons, why not make the Saron a charge cannon. More charge = more ammo, more damage, single shot, high damage, high risk, high reward. If you miss then you must reload. Otherwise the Saron can function as it does not as a spammy multi shot inaccurate weapon.