[Suggestion] Remove all HA shield abilities

Discussion in 'Heavy Assault' started by RyanGUK, May 23, 2014.

  1. RyanGUK


    I bet that title is a major hook isn't it? But this isn't a nerf thread, in fact it's probably the opposite and would work in advantage for HAs. What I'm proposing is to remove all the shield abilities from the Heavy Assault, that's without question.

    In exchange for removing the shield abilities, I'd prefer to see an added armour bonus to the Heavy Assault class, lets say 500 extra HP at all times. I'd prefer it to be a completely separate bar to shields and HP but it'd work the same increasing the HP instead. For this to work, we would have to take a tiny nerf to movement speed (you get that from having your shield enabled anyway).

    What you have then is an ability slot from a class completely free to do some crazy stuff, whilst keeping a constant advantage over other classes like the Light Assault, which right now is the Heavy Assault without shields & LMGs (there's no other difference).

    Now the question is what abilities do you think would be really cool for the Heavy Assault to have instead of just being able to use shields?

    Of course we can forget this idea and go to just using shields but I think meh, lets mix it up. Heavy Assault should be between Light Assault & MAX and right now it just (consistently) is not. I just think we could make HA something better without it being the "easy mode" choice.
  2. Lord_Avatar

    That would make the HA simply insane... The shield is powerful, but at least it has to be managed to some degree. I'm all for adding more differentiating features both to classes and empires alike, but this is completely out of whack.
    • Up x 4
  3. RyanGUK

    What is the HP difference between LA and HA? I believe it's exactly the same. Like I said though, was just floating the idea out there.
  4. Lord_Avatar

    The total HP pool is exactly the same across all classes bar the Infiltrator. My point is that the shield - being an active ability - requires *some* forethought (or reflexes) to provide that crucial HP boost. This means you can still catch a Heavy with his pants down and negate this advantage, same as with the cloak, or AOE heal.
    • Up x 2
  5. Bine

    Honestly, I think it's a shame the NC Max got that riot shield. Missed opportunity for the heavy class. They could have given the NC Max a shield bar instead of the riot shield, then gave heavies the riot shield. But thats me, a TR who wants another factions specific ability ;).

    Personally I could see the HA getting some built in resistances to enemy fire. Something on the order of 20-50% to beef up their resilience as the head-on fighter. That would free up the ability slot to do other things. Like a directional flash-bang, empire specific ability, or even total removal of the ability. Engies dont have one, maybe heavies dont need one either?

    Perhaps make it a third heavy-weapon slot. Could possibly move the empire specific weapons to that new slot or make new ES weapons for them. Make them slow the heavies movement even further and give them some nice strong AI strength and AV strength. The NC could get a huge rail cannon of sorts. They hit the trigger, you hear it rev up a moment and then BLAM. The TR could get this big lugged grenade launcher. Boomboomboom! Make the clip 4-8 shots, give it some small radius of damage but make it hurt (coincidentally, this would give the TR a weapon good for supression like the vanu have. Just dont give it a large blast radius otherwise you'll have 9 heavies just spamming the **** out of it and no one will ever live. Better yet, make the grenades stick to objects for a second or two before detonating. No firing it around corners). Then lastly, give the vanu a straight up lazer. The lasher used to be a lazer but they changed it to be more similar to the old Lasher from PS1. So give the vanu a straight up lazer. For added fun, have it be something that revs DOWN. It starts out real strong but as you hold the trigger it gets weaker. Give it a wind up time to recharge back to full. Given its strength, it will obviously call a lot of attention to you for using it. A nice bright teal beam cutting armor and infantry? Yeah, putting a bullseye on you. Great for small fights, unlike the lasher and lancer (Which, coincidentally, are the guns with the best teamwork multipliers int he game). They would be weaker in large fights due to the amount of attention they would garner.

    Make sure these items take a while to both pull out and put away. Also, by having them slow the heavy down further it splits the heavy and the LA even more. The LA is truely about mobility and with the heavy being slower as a rule of thumb he's now in that space between LA and MAX.
  6. Casterbridge

    Just going to say I really dislike most of these suggestions. As mentioned above the current shields require at some thought and reflex and an active choice to activate.

    I don't want just an always on shield, and a permanent movement penalty.

    Though I do kind of like the idea of the Riot shield, that could have been an interesting choice to go along with the current shields.
  7. Alarox

    • Up x 1
  8. Bine

    Yeah, i feel it was a missed opportunity making that NC MAX only. Still. I think slowing down their movement and beefing up their resistances is a better choice if the shield is removed. It changes HA gameplay around a little. Instead of thinking about when to flip the shield on you have to think about your positioning. You don't move as fast as the other classes so you have to watch where you are and keep cover nearby.

    It also widens the mobility gap between LA and HA. Which is a good thing imo. Whenever I have the need to 'assault' something my choice is always either medic or HA. Always. LA might have jetpacks but the HA does their job just as good if not better due to the RL's and LMGs.
  9. ScrapyardBob

    As for the NC MAX shield - that should have been something given to *all* MAX units. Just like all MAX units should have had some sort of movement debuff in exchanged for increased damage like the TR MAX has. And all (3) empire MAX units should have access to a movement speed buff in exchange for being flimsier.

    (The whole empire-specific MAX ability where one side gets a defensive boost, one side gets an offensive boost, and the other side gets a bit of both, was just screwed up from the start.)
    • Up x 1
  10. Iridar51

    Engineers have an ability, to carry and deploy MANA turret / Ammo packs.
    Heavies have a third weapon slot, they carry rocket launchers in there.
    • Up x 1
  11. Pathogenic

    NWG/AS are bleh. If you want "always tanky and slow", use RS with ASC and keep kits on hand. If you have a good medic who is willing to support like a TF2 medic, you can take some ridiculous punishment.

    I would definitely love a riot shield primary that made it so your "primary" was it and the pistol, a la CS1.6 but without as much BLOCK EVERYTHING, though. It just feels like it would be perfect for tank-focused heavies.
  12. Bine

    I did not realise a pistol was considered a heavy weapon. Excuse me while i go relearn the dictionary. Also, engy mana turret / ammo packs are not 'press F to use'. Thus, they are equipment. Not special abilities. If you want to consider that a special ability then I will consider medigun a special ability, engy repair gun a special ability, heavy assaults LMGs are a special ability, etc.


    EDIT: If I wasn't clear, I was talking about abilities in regards to the 'special ability'. You know. Medic AOE heal, HA shield. I thought this was a given in the current discussion but whatever.
  13. Iridar51

    Misread. Don't have to be a jerk about it.
    Rocket Launcher is not a "heavy weapon", though, and neither are LMGs. Only Lasher, MCG and Jackhammer are classified as heavy weapons.
    Would you be happier if they were activated by pressing F? This is literally the only difference. Don't be a bureaucrat.
    Med Tool, Repair Tool, Recon Device and Rocket Launcher are tools, that go into tool slot.

    Cloaking, HA overshield, medics' AOE heal, MANA turret and Jump Jets are abilities, that occupy the ability slot.
    LA's ability is activated by pressing spacebar and engineer's ability requires the user to manually select the MANA turret as a piece of equipment, that doesn't change the fact they're all abilities in the ability slot.

    Gosh, you have absolutely no structure. Not sure about dictionary, but you definitely need to go learn the glossary.
    • Up x 1
  14. Bine

    As you were the one who was a bit smart about my post without actually reading it you hit the *** switch. I would also like to note you have not contributed anything to the thread using the threads topic. You have come here only to nitpick.


    I constantly reference 'if'. And follow it up with my opinion. IF the heavy shields were removed to change how they played, this is how I would want to see it.
  15. Iridar51

    Cuz it's a stupid topic =\ You want heavies to become even more powerful and even more easy-mode than they are now, that's not gonna happen. So is educating you, it seems.
    • Up x 1
  16. Halkesh

    If HA the lose their ability-shield, then I think they should have a riot shield.
    Something that mitigate damage from front per 80% but the HA can't fire while the shield is active.

    About the point of "the HA should or shouldn't lose their ability shield", I think their shield are good actually. They don't need nerf nor buff.
  17. Bine

    I only said 'if x happens'. While true, it would make them stronger it makes them less mobile too. I -want- to see a mobility gap between light assault and heavy assault. I -want- to see the LA jump onto a roof, put a bunch of bullets in a heavies back, and then run off before retaliation. I -want- to see a group of heavies operate as the frontline soldier while the Light Assaults are shock troopers.

    As it currently is I can do as well as a light assault in a head on confrontation with a heavy as I do as a heavy vs a light assault.

    Sorry for wanting my classes to be a little more separated.

    EDIT: Off topic again, 'Cuz its a stupid topic =\' is not a reason to derail the thread and nitpick at everyone laughing at them for sharing opinions and ideas.
  18. Foxirus

    Guys, They have already decided they are going to add a delay into the heavies shield systems (All of them, No shield system is excluded from this nerf).

    Its kinda funny though, Everyone can use the Heavies shield system so they are going to nerf it.. If that is the case, Why does the NC get to keep their instant activating tank and max shield, Shouldn't those get a delay as well since they are exactly the same as the heavies "panic button"?
  19. Dietre

    The only way I like this idea of heavies losing the press F to win shield and instead have a buffed resist to small arms fire is if this resistance is directional. meaning I'm an Inf. heavy walks by and I open fire into his back. his buff resistance should not count cuz its to the back or back and head. To many times you get he drop on a heavy, they take dmg to the back and they hit F, turn around and kill you.

    This would give LA a fighting chance and make Drifter jets usfull as you can move REALLY quick and flank the heavy to make him take normal damage. from the front, they should be tanks, but out flank them and they should get owned.

    I feel dirty when im playing as a heavy with max resist shield, max NW and over 30% accuracy with my favorite gun, the Orion
    I have had three people come from behind, only for me to pop the shield and turn and kill all of em. To easy, to easy with the shield and good aim.
  20. Brenold

    the misconception is that the HA is supposed to be the front liner, or worse i read that it's supposed to be between a max and everything else?

    the max and the infiltrator are the 2 classes that are completely different from everyone else. i dont think i need to expound on this point

    everything else is the same, but with different equipment to fulfill different roles.
    the heavy is the only class other than max that pose a real threat to air, and the biggest threat to ground vehicles. c4, tank mines and the mana turret are highly situational. that is the role it poses.

    removing the shield should not mean HA should then become stronger than the other classes. like mentioned, the shield is an ability. not a class trait. im all for removing shields and replacing it with some other ability, but that doesn't justify making them stronger than everything else.

    Ideally the HA is also supposed to be semi-support, and LAs are the true frontliners. you dont have soldiers with machine guns as your main infantry. machine guns are used for suppression purposes, and the ability to cause significant damage to vehicles is also a semi-support role.i think the engie turrets are actually better suited to HA and can replace shields... then just let the engies carry all their deployables (ammo, c4, claymore, tankmine) simultaneously and carry more of them.