Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Ianneman, Mar 9, 2015.

  1. Kcalehc

    So about 180-190m (as point C in your pic is 214m away and the MAX's are closer). Which is easily close enough for you to shoot back. (or take 20 seconds to run up there and C4 them)

    You may be right about their range, but this screenshot does not demonstrate that at all. Many things (in fact every thing) can kill you at that range, perhaps not as easily, but it still can.
  2. EliteEskimo

    Bull crap, Magriders can dodge the shells at ranges they can't fire back at an immobile battle tank (which for good Magriders tankers I don't even have recollection of that happening. AP Vanguards have high enough velocity that they can easily fire back on an AP anchored Prowler, especially ones that also have the Enforcer. Also a Raven Max or Lancer will often not rendering at their respective limits, a MBT does render the vast vast majority of the time.
  3. EliteEskimo

    Ravens are OP, you can compare them on the Oracle of dealth and they vastly outperform the VS/TR faction equivalents. Even with the 1 second time decreased to lock down for the Max that doesn't mean you can hit a ADADA Raven Max from 400 meters away and expect to win lol. Raven Maxes often stop rendering past 300 meters so it often doesn't matter if I'm in a Prowler or not, and they often take a few hits then go back to repair and come right back.

    Ravens range were only reduced by 50 meters in the patch notes, from 450-400 meters. Ravens still have no issue being an extreme annoyance even at 300+ meters. Ravens can go toe to toe with another MBT better than any other AV Max out there. What infantry or max based AV weapons do the TR have that come close to a 300 meter effective range? None. The Prowler locking down and shelling from afar can easily be shot back at by AP tankers who can aim. It happens all the time even at extreme ranges like firing down on NS abandoned offices from Crimson Bluff.
  4. axiom537

    Oh please the DPS on a MAX reload / MAX Anchor AP Prowler is the most disgusting weapon in this game. And NO Vanguard is going to stand a chance at range vs one, nor can any other vehicle in this game, and you can just as easily put a Halberd on top of the prowler as well, giving it even more damage potential, but we know most TR don't because they do not need a 2nd gunner.

    Max Reload/Max Anchor Prowler = 2500 dmg/sec with a velocity of 325m/s
    AP Vanguard w/ Max Shield = 518 dmg / sec with velocity of 275m/s

    I think it is funny you want to come in here and complain about how OP the Ravens are against vehicles, when the TR have the most obvious OP MBT in this game, that absolutely wrecks the other MBT's in terms of kills both vehicle and infantry, even while running the majority of the time 1/2. The Raven provided balance for the NC to combat the Anchor Prowler and the maneuverability of the Magrider.

    Oh and lets not even get started on the Vulcan Harrasser....Of course slower Ravens, make that OP monster easier to hit as well.. God forbid the NC have one weapon that performs top of its class...
  5. EliteEskimo

    It's apparent you don't know the Prowler outside of stats and on paper. If other tanks are being shelled at by an AP Prowler they will return fire and unless they are bad can hit an immobile Prowler. In an DPS race at range yes the Prowler can hold its own. But 2 Raven Maxes with an elevation advantage is one of the most game breaking things in which can happen in an open field battle even if they Render.
  6. Ianneman

    Oh yeah, a tank sitting locked down into the ground on top of a hill will never get bombed by a Liberator or ESF...
  7. Ianneman

    Look, it's not about performance or damage output, it's about those things flying around in every open field battle, making tank battles absolutely impossible. It's gamebreaking. Triple their damage, quadruple their splash range, make them explode and throw around a million tank mines, whatever, as long as the stupid mechanic they currently have gets taken off.

    People just sitting behind walls, inside buildings, bombarding everything in the field. Every single battle it's like FWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE FWEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE-EEEEEEEEEEEEEE, those things are flying everywhere, constantly.
  8. OldMaster80

    Look at this, I took it this evening. You can see where my Lightning exploded: the killer with dual Ravens was in the red circle. This is freaking ridicolous, it was a little more than a pixel on my screen, but still he got me in 5 seconds. His name was ste2o3: as I respawned I want to kill him with the Trac-Burst.


    Damage is fine, tracking as well, but the range is unacceptable.
  9. axiom537

    And two Max reload / Max Anchor AP Prowlers aren't? Roll 2 up to that same hill, no secondary gunners and you will kill a blockade sunderer or Vanguard with Shields every 2 seconds with focus firing.

    Oh I see and 2 raven maxes aren't going to get bombed by a liberator or an ESF?

    Ravens are about 25% more effective then the VS Vortex Maxes killing 4.71 VKPH vs the VS 3.91 VKPH and 49% better then the fractures which kill 3.2 VKPH. So between the VS and NC, the VS kill .79 vehicles less then the NC and the TR kill 1.5 vehicles less. Yet the TR AP Prowler Kills 13.45 VKPH and the Vanguard gets around 10.85 VKPH, so your OP AP Prowler is more then making up the difference of vehicle kills...

    And maybe we should take a close look at how horrible the Pounder MAX is, I keep hearing how great the ravens are for killing Infantry yet they are only getting around 5.43 Infantry KPH, while the Pounder is getting 14.47 Infantry KPH. So, sure the Pounder is only killing 2.75 VKPH vs the Ravens 4.78 VKPH, 2 whole less vehicles per hour, but it is killing 9.04 more infantry per hour.

    It all comes down to OVERALL balance, at it's worse the Raven is killing 4.7 VPH which is only 25% better then the Vortex, while it is substantially less effective vs Infantry then the Pounder. As I said from the beginning for 450 certs / use the Ravens are fine, give the fractures a bit more punch to bring them in line with the Ravens and the Vortex, but for 450 certs an AV max should be able to kill vehicles and 4.7 VKPH is hardly OP for that price considering the Prowler for 450 certs/use is killing 13.45 VKPH and 11.93 Infantry KPH
  10. axiom537

    So you are mad because a 450 cert AV Max is killing vehicles at a rate of approx. 4.7 Vehicle kills / Hour. While 450 cert vehicles like the HE Prowler are sitting on ledges and ridges killing infantry at a rate of 48.37 / hour or the AP version is killing 13 vehicles and 12 infantry / hour.

    Or 250 cert HE Lightnings are killing 47+ Infantry an Hour...

    MBT's are killing 2.75 X as many vehicles as the top performing AV MAX. I really do not think it is the MAX's ruining your fights, they may be tipping the scales for their side, but they are not ruining anything, especially not at a cost of 450 certs/use.
  11. EliteEskimo

    Except Raven maxes can do this while moving side to side, are significantly smaller, often don't render meaning you can't fire back, and their projectiles are guided. If you don't think Ravens don't ruin open field battles you either are NC and dont want your OP weapon nerfed or are so biased against tanks that there is no point in talking with you.
  12. Scorponok

    yea, the damage and the rockets being guided makes it really OP...only way to fix it is to cut the damage by alot..maybe 40%...or remove the guided system from raven's
  13. MahouFairy

    Yes, I would agree that fractures are UP, but because something is UP, you don't nerf the counterpart. And no, Ravens still require LoS, so they cant simply "lob" stuff over. The closest one to this would be Pounders which can be used like mortars.
  14. AssaultPig

    I don't think ravens are that overpowered per se; I think the only adjustment they really need is minor clip size or RoF nerf. Vortexes are comparably useful (and have a pretty decent range advantage now), but fractures really need buffed. They are super lackluster compared to ravens and lockdown is still usually just an invitation for an AP round to hit you in the face.

    the AV turret is also (still) a much bigger issue than ravens
  15. Haquim

    I have no idea how to fix them, but yes they are OP and no, the AV turret is not a bigger issue.
    The turret is a target only a little bit smaller than the MAX and I need only one hit to get rid of it (as tank).
    Compare that to the MAX who is moving erratically (so I can get lucky, but I can't rely on my aim), can take a tankshell and simply get repaired and also has much higher DPS.
    There were a couple times where so many engineers put their turrets down we couldn't advance a metre without blowing up - my solution was to tell my guys to stay in cover and give me a couple minutes.
    Going Infiltrator - *BLAM* *BLAM* *BLAM* *BLAM* *BLAM* - Ok now advance and take that base.
    Now go and try that with a Raven MAX.

    And when I compare it with the fractures I can't even laugh anymore. Fractures have an effective range of what? 100 metres? A little bit over dumbfires anyway. Even in pretty close range like that you will miss a bunch because those have a cone of fire that is almost as big, if not bigger, than a lightning. Solution: LOCK DOWN! More bullets means more damage after all!
    A GREAT idea - why did I not think about anchoring my feet to the ground so I can't strafe out of the way when a tank is shooting me? This way I can improve my DPS to almost 50% Ravens level at 150m while being almost as easily killed as squishy infantery. BRILLIANT!
    Sometimes I think developers just implement something they feel like and don't waste a single moment about how it would fit into gameplay and perform. To be fair, DBG is not the only ones to do that.

    Also I'm pretty sure lockdown makes the CoF worse, but I can't really prove it. If somebody can, please do, it would fit with my expectations.
    And this is how I imagine it happened:
    "Hey Jim, TR AV MAXes are too shortranged, we gotta buff them!"
    "Tell them to use lockdown and be done with"
    "But if they hit 100% they will outdamage other AV"
    "Then increase the CoF by 20% in lockdown, that will solve that problem. Now go annoy someone else, I gotta repaint this gun 'till tomorrow morning"
  16. AssaultPig

    the AV turret doesn't move, but doesn't cost resources or need outside support and can much more easily get to a lot of hard to reach places. You don't that often see a bunch of ravenmaxes camping the cliffs above tawrich for example, but there's nearly always 4-5 AV turreteers up there blowing up every tank they can see. A max that takes an AP round is also going to put his head down, at least for a little while. A smart engineer has barely any exposure to return fire (you only need to be in the turret for 1/3 to 1/2 of its reload cycle) and can just replace the turret if it does take a hit.


    I agree that long range AV MAX weapons need a more substantive tuning pass. I would prefer a bigger buff to fractures as opposed to a nerf to ravens though
  17. axiom537

    I do not think a 450 cert AV MAX, that on average kills only 4.7 Vehicles/hour is OP anything... How many vehicles do you think a 450 cert cost AV Max should be able to kill on average per hour?

    The Harrasser with a Halberd a 150 cert vehicle kills over 17 vehicles / Hour
    AP Lightenings a 250 cert vehicles kills over 13 vehicles / Hour
    Decimators a Zero cost weapon kills over 9 vehicles / Hour
    The Free Starter Rocket launchers kill over 6 vehicles / Hour

    The Ravens are slightly better then the VS Vortex. I think rather then nerfing the Ravens, the other AV Maxes should be brought up to its standard...

    FYI, I love driving vehicles and I am not biased about anything, but I do realize that for 450 certs/use AV maxes should be effective and I really do not consider a weapons platform that costs 450 certs/ use and gets under 5 kills per hour OP. Especially in relation to other weapon platforms that cost the same or much less, yet are significantly more effective. Granted part of the reason for that effectiveness is their Cert cost and they can be pulled with much greater frequency, so perhaps that is where we should be focusing our attention, because all of those weapons have a MUCH greeater impact on vehicle fights then the AV MAX's.
  18. Bearlover


    -It takes 3-4 clips (each arm) from a Raven Max to destroy an MBT (prowler/magrider).

    -It takes 2-3 shots to kill a Raven Max with an MBT main gun. 1-2 Shots with main gun AND secondary.

    -It takes 2 and a half clips (each arm) from a Raven Max to destroy a lightning.

    -It takes 2 shots for a lightning to kill a Raven Max, AP round.

    -It takes 2 clips for a lightning to kill a Raven Max, default rounds.

    450 Nanites to pull a Max unit
    450 Nanites to pull an MBT ( Prowler/Magrider/Vanguard)

    Most people PANIC at the sight of the Raven Max. Nothing you can do ?
    - Shoot back with your main gun. You miss a lot, your fault so practice more shooting while on the move or just plain shooting.
    - Use Terrain to your advantage
    - 8/10 times you will be an engineer, you can 1v1 that Raven Max all day long you will kill him all day, even if you have no gunner for your secondary. Kill, Repair your tank, Kill, Repair your tank.
    - LA with 2 c4 is enough to destroy any Raven Max unit.


    If an enemy force used terrain to their advantage, like a hill overlooking a base, road or chokepoint. Then whatever weapons they have brought to the fight are NOT considered OP. Most likely they have used AV mana turrets, lock-on launchers, AV Maxes, AA Burster Maxes, Snipers or just plain infantry. This force used the terrain to their advantage, meaning they made effort & critical thinking.

    -If you blindly charge that position alone, you will die 9/10 times. You will most likely scream OP, whine, nerf blah blah!
    -If you charge that position head on with support, infantry and other tanks. You will most likely die still, kill some of them but they get revived anyway, you wont and THEN you will still scream OP, whine, nerf blah blah !
    Now how will you destroy that position? Well thats for you to LEARN, thats for you to think tactically, because you lack critical thinking and think you are a God every time you are in a tank, and would rather just do nothing and click on the left mouse button the whole time.

    What i am trying to explain here is that todays' gamer would rather want to be > spoon fed <.
    Todays' gamer lacks critical thinking when trying to challenge his/herself when confronted with a situation.

    Whining, crying , qqing, about weapons, ravens, vulcans, etc. is their only motive.

    FFS if there is an enemy force camping your vehicle spawn from 500m, why da hell would you spawn vehicles in that area?! THINK!! , pull a gal from the warpgate, ambush that position with heavies and medics or c4 fairies. Pull tanks from the next base or ask for air support or pull your own. SHELL that position from a distance or from the air, burster maxes?? GET MORE AIR ask for support. THINK child ! Lazy Dumbasses
  19. omfgweeee

    I dont understand the Ravens problem. VS have Lazhor Max that can sniper Vehicles from same distance why no complain from them?
  20. Shiaari

    Are you sure you're not talking about the Phoenix? Ravens work just like the engineer anti vehicle turret.