Ravens too Versatile?

Both Pounder and Ravens need 3 shots to kill an enemy infantry but Pounder got a little more splash. Then Raven got a faster reload time and 1 extra rounds in each magazine and do not have any drop but laser guidance.

Pounder is not "many times better" than Ravens. Sure they are better but not "many times better".

I only use mine for armor columns and just from time to time.

Infantry? once in awhile they get in the way but by no means are Ravens very effective for infantry imo.
Every time I get a surprise from an enemy infantry I don't feel OP at all.
First shots rarely kill them.
Splash damage? haven't noticed.
They are typically able to get to cover and either get killed by someone else or I can kill them.
But in no way do I feel OP with Ravens in CQC.

If you are running around CQC'n Infantry with Ravens you are a terrible player.
Don't be an exploiter.

Have you even realized that the damage of the vortex is dramatically decreased over 400m ?

You have a considerably longer period to avoid vehicle death from a Vortex max by shifting cover, unless they're grouped up 3+ in a nest. The vortex is also nearly worthless against its primary threat (infantry) and not reliable against its secondary threat (ESFs). I do agree with the render distance issue, at the very least the beams of lancers and vortexes should show to its max range to indicate hit direction and allow for some degree of evasive action at range, but that's an issue that covers more than just those two weapons. Really the only advantage to a Vortex max over a lancer heavy is that it's more difficult to snipe the Vortex, but the lancer heavy can respond to closer infantry threat and doesn't pull resources.

A single raven max with elevation and proper distancing can devastate an entire vehicle column by looking at it, and then annihilate infantry at the same range who attempt to respond (AV turret engies = two rounds, dead before you can leave the turret). Against a single max with two engis repairing, a sundy will die within two clips... one if it isn't fully defensive (max shield/blockade). The only real response to this is, ironically, a lancer heavy. TR have much less reliable methods to deal with it (and before you say AP prowler, guess what dies in a single clip of ravens and is a huge target?), mainly the banshee, which is getting nerfed.

A pounder max can do the same thing, but it has to get practically danger close and within a much tighter line of sight, is totally vulnerable to ESFs, and both fractures/comets don't have nearly the same sustainable damage at range. In a biolab the raven is performing like a pounder at range, and is often combined with a scatter max in an enclosed space is a very dug-in defensive hold. It doesn't need a massive nerf in AI work, but it should be brought in line with comets (requiring direct hits to be anything more than an annoyance), especially given how easy the weapon is to use and aim. Falcons are closer to pounders and comets in nature, and are in a fairly good place given their limitations imo.

As a point of reference, fractures were once more or less an unguided raven, and was massively over-performing, and thus neutered (too hard imo, they're now inferior in AV work to every other MAX option from all factions and need a minor tweak). Much like the pre-nerf PPA, word got out about how strong the weapon was to the point of seeing it in every fight with the faction, and now it's on the chopping block as a result.

Thing is:
I'm infantry. I don't mind MAXes as long as they can't kill me

My original post, if you had time to read all of it, actually spent several full in depth paragraphs explaining why it SHOULDn't be nerfed.... and asking questions about how its damage Calcs are actually being handled by the game engine. It was an "info gathering" thread plain and simple and asking if something is "Versatile" is not the same as saying it's Overpowered. And the main point: how effective they are in CQC, ended up being based on false in-game information.

Ultimately, ... a lot of hidden information came to light, that your Developers frankly need to do a better job of actually putting into the public realm of knowledge or even the in-game UI & weapon's stats. 3 main examples: that it adds the splash to the other damages it deals on direct hits. Those direct hit damages aren't listed by "type" very well. and #3, The headshot notification is basically a bug since I'm being told that it doesn't even have a headshot multiplier.

Thank you for listening and being vigilant in this...

Ravens are simply too good at everything. They are outstanding for AV work and throw in amazing performance at all ranges for AI work and you get easily one of the most overpowered weapons in the game. They need their AI capabilities greatly nerfed at the very least. No, the other ones should not be buffed to the Ravens levels. That would put even more OP and non-specialized garbage into the game that it absolutely does not need. If you pick AV, you should be terribly gimped at AI. If you pick AI you are already terribly gimped at AV. Currently if you pick AV you are still very effective at AI. Its a problem with many weapons in the game, not just Ravens, but Ravens are the worst offenders by far.

ravens are fine the way they are. its the one good thing that the nc max has.

Guys, I'm glad we are having this discussion maybe this means that SOE will see this and officially announce that they have plans to nerf the ravens. Hopefully they announce, at the same time, that they are nerfing the banshee as well. Fingers crossed.

Why did you compare Ravens to T1 AV weapons?

Because he has an agenda and hopes people are too stupid to notice.

Those graphs are from an earlier post of mine, so I'll explain why I chose those comparisons.

Essentially I took the "best" ESAV weapons for killing infantry. To me, it really doesn't matter about the ESAV "generations". Players can pick from them all. So I just looked at which ones were the best for killing infantry from each faction (had the highest KPH) and threw them up there. It turns out that the Ravens, Comets, and Pounders are the best ESAV options for killing infantry (though personally I find Falcons more satisfying, but who am I to argue with stats?).

The second graph simply took the same weapons and looked at their vehicle-killing power (VKPH). I could have looked at Fractures and Vortexes, but then there would be a disconnect with the first graph. I wanted to capture the relationship between AV and AI work, and how the "best" AI options performed against vehicles.

The proper conclusions:
1) The Pounder is terrifying at AI work, but makes up for this with lackluster AV work. It is the best of the three at AI, but the worst of the three at AV. We might say that this is "balanced".
2) The Comet is the "baseline". Far worse than the Pounder at AI work, but middling when it comes to AV work.
3) The Ravens are performing slightly worse (but not enough to worry) in terms of AI work than the Comet, but outperform the Comet when it comes to AV work. Hence one possible way to "fix" the Ravens are to reduce their AV effectiveness so they match those of the Comets.

As an alternative to nerfing the AV capabilities of the Ravens, another option is to nerf the AI capabilities of the Ravens but keep their AV capabilities as is. In that way it would be an anti-Pounder; whereas the Pounder excels against infantry at the cost of AV power, the Ravens would be the worst against infantry but gain increased AV effectiveness. The Comet, in comparison, would be the "average" option, doing better than the Pounders against vehicles and better than the Ravens against infantry.

See above for methodology.

It is still consistent unavoidable damage at absurdly long range.

Well that's why I asked this question in the first place. The banshee just got its down-tune and the rumors were Higby actually saying in a stream reportedly that they were keeping a close eye on Ravens. But he would not specify what "role" they're currently being too versatile in. This isn't asking for Nerfs, this is attempting to PREDICT what Higby will greenlight as their already planned downtune

But as I said, their usual toolbox of down-tunes that they already employed against the Phoenix launcher, won't do much about the overall annoyingness of Ravens. The Phoenix is a fairly clumsy rocket by most standards with a TERRIBLE AWFUL D.P.S. rate and leaves its user completely vulnerable anywhere but a spawn room. Yet the psychological effect it still has against VS & TR players is still there simply b/c we can still launch it from there and sometimes kill whatever Sunderers they failed to perfectly position behind a high enough wall.

This thread has already narrowed down that reality even further, proving that there isn't really any other "dials" to adjust here.
If there's a "problem" with Ravens and Pounders and Blueshifts, then it's proving to be a problem with MAX suits, not just MAX arms.

This isn't even remotely the best instance of an "AV Weapon is overperforming at AI kills":



Don't bother doing the same search on DA for Raven, the numbers are much, much lower while the difference between VP and KP aren't nearly as coefficiently pronounced