Railjack is fine.

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by Reavx, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. cruczi

    Give me a Railgun from Quake 3 and I will dance circles around your "hitscan" weapon.

    You don't know the true meaning of hitscan.
  2. Wobberjockey

    yes i do, i just don't want to waste my time and yours by typing "projectile with a velocity that results in near hitscan levels performance within the current scale of the game world" instead of "functionally hitscan" or just "hitscan".

    yes there is a projectile, but you barely need to compensate for drop, the projectile arrives faster, and you will having an easier time hitting a running target on the first shot due to a much reduced need to compensate for aforementioned bullet travel time.

    Happy now? can we PLEASE stop arguing semantics?
    the rifle's increased projectile velocity and damage is not justified by the loss of 1 bullet and one tenth of a second longer between refires.
    that makes it an upgrade.

    the only reason to use a longshot after it goes live is to use the straight pull bolt, which could be seen as a disadvantage since you have trouble seeing where your bullet lands to calculate drop.
    • Up x 1
  3. cruczi

    Ah yes, semantics. The study of meaning.

    You do not seem to understand the meaning of hitscan when you use it as shorthand for "near hitscan level performance within the current scale of the game world". Any weapon that uses a projectile for hit detection will not perform like a true hitscan weapon
  4. Wobberjockey

    no, but if i give an anti infantry weapon a 3000m/sec projectile velocity, would you not call that weapon functionally hitscan?

    it clearly is not, but with that velocity, it would reach the 300m infantry render in a tenth of a second. when compared to the vast majority of projectile speeds in the game currently and their travel time to 300m, one could certainly make that generalization, at it would be the nearest thing the game has to a hitscan weapon. it would undeniably be in the range of "might as well be".

    and remember, all the infantry combat occurs at <300m, so we would quickly get into time to target below the range of human perception.

    now. is the railjack traveling at 3km a second?
    no it is not.
    but it IS still traveling significantly faster than every other weapon system in the game.

    faster than a saron
    faster than a lancer
    faster than the current crop of T3 rifles.
    so fast that gravity barely acts on it by the time it passes out of infantry render range.
    and considering that every other OHK weapon does have to compensate for appreciable bullet drop at those ranges, The rail jack is nothing more than a point and click headshot machine.

    which, to the user, is going to feel a hell of a lot like hitscan
    • Up x 3
  5. Bhudda V1

    honestly if people are so bent out of shape the railjack being a tier 4 rifle effectively then how about making it a 1 shot rifle with all the same stat's so it is not a direct upgrade and only 20 extra shot's.
  6. D-Spirith

    I think you kinda miss my point, the point that "direct upgrade" as a term means there are no downgrades but only upgrades to the existing product. With Longshot you can kill 5 people per mag, with Railjack you can kill 4 per mag - no matter how small the difference, it is still a downgrade.

    Or are you trying to evaluate just muzzle velocity and +50 damage? You may say muzzle velocity and damage of the Railjack is a direct upgrade to the Longshot, however on the other side the Longshot would be a direct upgrade to Railjack with its bigger magazine size and smaller Chamber time. There are many people who prefere to stay with bigger magazine sizes on the battlefield, and snipers are not an excuse.

    While im not trying to argue about how huge/small the advantages/disadvantages of these 2 rifles are, im simply trying to make you pay more attention at the meaning of the terms such as "direct upgrade".

    I actually think the Raijack could have 3 bullets per mag and longer reload time.
    • Up x 1
  7. Dragonblood

    Yeah, let's define the issue. It's a sidegrade only on factors that hardly matter for a sniper. The factors that matter are bullet velocity, damage, bullet drop, headshot range and how visible its tracers are.

    The refire rate or magazine size on a bolt-action sniper rifle doesnt matter....especially because the differences between guns are very small........and because unlike other gunman you need longer to aim and reposition between shots.
    • Up x 1
  8. cruczi

    No, it would not be functionally hitscan. Taking 100 ms to travel to a target is a hell of a long time, comparable to an additional 100 ms network lag over what you already have. Hitting targets at 300 meters with a 3000 m/s weapon would be extremely unreliable compared to a hitscan weapon.

    Even if it had billion m/s velocity it would not be functionally hitscan, because hit detection based on projectile collision is never going to be as reliable as hit detection based on overlap of the crosshair with the hitbox at the time of firing.

    Yes it will be closer to hitscan, just like a bullet train is closer to speed of light when compared to a car.
  9. JesNC


    Hitscan is a bit of an exaggeration, but it went nicely with the previous name of the weapon, aka the Hitscan Pro ;)


    This hitscan issue aside, it's still a very controversial weapon. People dislike it for very varying reasons. One reason is that it's just a Longshot v2, its concept is rather bland and just more of the same (which is what the NC complain about - at least those that do complain).
    Another reason is that it is in fact a Longshot v2.0, a BASR yet more powerful than the last tier with minimum downsides (afaik it has access to all attachments, even straight-pull, doesn't it? 1 less round + slightly longer refire doesn't cut it for downsides IMO, and TR+VS have all the right in the world to complain about it).

    TL;DR
    What it all boils down to is that it's a Longshot v2.0, and the people voicing their complaints neither want nor need such a gun.
  10. cruczi

    How about: select fire mode. The default mode would have similar characteristics to a Longshot shot. In Overcharge mode, the weapon lights up a bit and starts making a slight buzzing sound giving your position away, but increases bullet velocity and damage to 850 m/s and 900, respectively. 4 round clip, 2 used on each overcharged shot. In terms of refire time / reload speed, it'd be slower than the Longshot. In case a Suppressor is used, Overcharge mode is disabled.
    • Up x 1
  11. Dragonblood

    If it lights up the infiltrator using it, it might as well damage light vehicles.

    Another option would be that you need to lockdown on a position to be able to fire the gun without major sway.
  12. cruczi

    How do you "lock down" ?
  13. Dragonblood

    [IMG]
  14. cruczi

    Prone stance? Not going to happen. If an infiltrator wielding one weapon gets to go prone, then all infiltrators do and probably all classes too
    • Up x 1
  15. Dragonblood

    well, find a better disadvantage for a hard hitting super accurate weapon. I just assumed a weapon this powerful would need some kind of stabilisation.
  16. Kwyjibo

    This thread needs to go back to arguing about the meaning of hitscan. That was entertaining.
  17. cruczi

    1. Already found it, what I posted above
    2. going prone is not a disadvantage
  18. Dragonblood

    Forcing someone to stay on a certain position is a hard drawback......it's a free headshot for any hostile sniper as soon as he is discovered.
  19. gnometheft


    Also the railjack has .3s longer loading time after each shot before it can fire than the longshot, (around 2.1 and 1.8s respectively)
  20. Dragonblood

    Doesn't matter on bolt-actions