Please make the ZOE useful at Something...

Discussion in 'MAX' started by Ztiller, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. LodeTria

    Would 1.X times damage at all ranges be okay? what number would you use? I'd put at 1.4x more damage, with only vortex's being excluded from it due to their extreme range. Comets can keep them though due to their slow nature.
  2. Hegeteus

    Make the user much faster, but let them only use some kind of force-blades. It would be a fun reverse version of NC's shield... kinda
    • Up x 1
  3. DeusExForever

    Now you understand paladins! :p

    Still can be overpowered if the devs don't watch the class carefully!

    MMOs attract MMO players whatever the sub-genre would be, too. But they do play differently (and why I don't play a medic in this MMOFPS!).
  4. minhalexus

    Just bring back the old ZOE with just a slight nerf to the movement, and a bit more reduced armour. ( I'm talking about nerfing stats from the old ZOE not current ZOE)
    And of course the timer.

    The biggest broken thing about the old ZOE was that it was unlimited. All other stuff was fairly manageable.
  5. Phyr

    It's great at getting you killed, so it has that going for it. MAX abilities are probably the most balanced ES things in the game.
  6. Ztiller


    Yeah, well. The NC never had something that was ridiculously OP and then got nerfed into complete uselessness like the TR and VS have had, so i took what i had.


    The funny thing about this Argument, that i see a lot, is that there are actually a lot more TR MAXes than there are VS. If you look at the user count of TR MAX weapons vs VS MAX weapons, the TR have several thousand more MAX users.
  7. Goretzu


    Exactly the same way you kill any other MAX doing the same. :confused: (well not exactly as a ScatMAX is likely to be closer to the door with its lower range, so C4 is likely more effective).


    With clientside side hit detection it is IMPOSSIBLE for a NC MAX to get a shield up before a rocket hits in that situation and here is a video absolutely proving it! :)



    Clientside hit detection is a MAJOR problem with the Aegis Shield.
    So is AOE and direct shots hitting the feet (or if you angle the shield down far enough to stop that the MAXs head is exposed to direct fire).
    So is the fact that if you get close to the shield you can just shoot straight through it.


    I'm not saying that Aegis Shield isn't probably better than the current ZOE, as it likely is somewhat.
    But it is not that good and is not as good as Charge in most situations.
  8. Ztiller


    In that case it would at least be useful at AV combat. But still useless at AI-combat. The damage buff should be enough to reduce the number of bullets required to kill by 1.
  9. Rayden78

    Your missing the big difference between PS1 and 2 .. in PS1 bases were defensible and you couldnt just fly with maxxes to a capture point or generator.

    Even though you cant hack generators or cap points in a max you would be able to easily send in reinforcements over base walls or other obstacles.
  10. Champagon

    Alright that video seems like a guy whining about the ZOE.....it seems old too
  11. Copasetic

    That and most of the infantry fighting happened indoors where being able to fly didn't help you one bit. And MAXs didn't have nano repair to fix themselves between encounters.

    Lack of mobility is what keeps MAXs balanced in this game, I thought we'd already learned that lesson with the first ZOE. Anything that buffs that mobility without some serious drawbacks is just going to cause problems, and I don't see how they can combine serious drawbacks with jump jets without making them garbage like the ZOE is now.
  12. Yeahy

    You're not supposed to raise the shield when you see a rocket coming at you. If you could just say: "Hey look at that enemy shooting at me, let me just pop this shield and shoot him." that would be exactly like the current heavy assault shield, which everybody agrees is broken.
  13. Goretzu

    It is oldish, however the Aegis Shield always has, still does and likely always will function exactly as it does in that video, because client side hit detection (and the issues with it) doesn't change.
  14. Goretzu

    If you watch that video, it's not that you can't raise the shield in time, you can.

    It's that with client side hit detection it doesn't matter what you see only what your opponent sees.
  15. vanu123

    Then replace them with something useful.
  16. DrBash00

    I really hatet the ZOE as it came out, it was ABSOLUTELY overpowered, and some VS players where still crying for a buff ^^....

    But right now it is really to weak, and most important it is a NO TEAMPLAY ability.... so it would be better to to tweak it, it gets (more) usefull in teamfights.
  17. Astealoth

    Wasn't the case when ZOE was in it's original state. During that era the split between VS and TR MAX was so far in the other direction that the current split looks even. we're talkin 200:1 ratio at that time on a good day. Calling it a disease would have been understating it. The game was terminally ill from it.


    that's not how TFB worked. you had to manage the stacks, you had a % chance to proc 1 stack and initially it went up to 10 stacks. you had to had to try to mentally judge based on the situation, how many hits your were able to land on a target, when would be the most efficient time to blow you TFB, if you could feasibly build a 10 stack or not, added some thought process to a fight instead of just a spammy rotation. there was a random element to it but with careful management and shot placement you could do big hits. there was not much way to just randomly get a good TFB heroic strike, it had to be planned. that's why it was simplified then removed. if they wanted it to just not be as strong they could have balanced the damage output, not completely removed the mechanic. it was a dumbing down process, not a balance, sadly. i really enjoyed how it played in raiding and arenas, would have been much happier to it do less damage per stack if the complaint was it being OP in the wrong hands.

    i stayed a long time after tfb was removed, but the amount of fun i was having raiding t14 with tfb and how boring the class got thru t15 and t16, i kinda lost interest in the game when before i was just pumped to do anything. it was like a gambling addiction, big gains or big losses depending on a bit of luck and a bit of skill.
  18. lawn gnome

    maybe they could just up the movement speed more for ZOE. VS is technically supposed to be the mobility faction, why not embrace that for the MAX.
    • Up x 1
  19. _itg


    I think the issue is that it's very hard to hit the sweetspot (if it exists at all) between useless and overpowered when it comes to ZOE mobility. All MAX counters are based on their poor mobility, and you want more mobility precisely to avoid those counters. If you can, for example, strafe away from rockets, dodge c4, or run to cover, it's unfair. If you can't, you didn't gain a whole lot from that extra mobility.

    A damage increase is probably easier to balance. The increase in combat effectiveness should be much closer to linear with increase in damage than it is with mobility, so a small buff will be more likely to make the ability slightly better, rather than way too good or not better at all.
    • Up x 1
  20. lawn gnome

    the problem with a damage increase is making it different from TR lock down in a meaningful way.