Please make the ZOE useful at Something...

Discussion in 'MAX' started by Ztiller, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. Jac70

    I still use ZOE, I think the mobility buff is useful. If you are getting up close to targets like HAs all they do is bunnyhop and dance around you making it hard to hit them (unless your an NC Max with your skillguns of course). ZOE allows you to get at them and MAX punch them, also to duck behind cover effectively. Not sure how much difference it makes but it's not awful IMO.

    Only change I would make is to give it a pool of energy, rather than an on until drained mechanic.
  2. JudgeNu

    Well if you think about it...it is useful for something.
  3. TriumphantJelly

    Well, yes, but suicide isn't really the best goal.
  4. Cookie5000

    The entire NC faction is...
    SHOTGUNS
  5. Drag0

    If Ravens now are worse than ZoE was before. Driving a vehicle around is pointless when NC MAXs are around.
  6. Takara

    [IMG]
    • Up x 3
  7. MasterTater

    ====

    Point Blank accurate analysis. BUT you forgot that

    YOU GLOW OVER 1500 METERS ON THE BATTLEFIELD - TELLING THE ENEMY PLATOON TO SHOOT YOU INSTANTLY.

    THE ONLY THING YOU ARE WITH ZOE IS BEING A BULLET MAGNET WHILE TAKING MORE DMG DURING THE TIME ITS TURNED ON.

    AND THAT FOR 450 POINTS TO PULL A MAX DYING IN SECONDS DUE TO DISCO SHOW AND ON TOP COMPLETELY OUT OF THE SCOPE CERTPOINT INVESTMENTS FOR NOTHING THAN HOT AIR AND A HIGHER PROBABILITY TO DIE.

    => COMPLETE FAIL - GIVE VS MAX UNITS THE JUMP / JETPACK OPTION OF PLANETSIDE 1 AND END THIS ALREADY HILARIOUSLY FAIL STREAK OF BALANCE ATTEMPTS.
  8. Drag0

    The healing part of ZoE stacks with the self healing ability if you cert it -- that is worth it imo. But if you want to keep trying to buff the ZoE by all means I won't stop you :)
  9. Anantidaephobia

    VS Equipment is (sadly) not supposed to be balanced or even useful. See the Lasher ? I bought this with actual money (a mistake I'll think twice before I ever do it again) but can hardly use it unless I want to die quickly.
    The ZOE was nerfed pretty fast when people complained about it but Prowlers and NC MAXes are still untouched. That tells a lot.
  10. Imp C Bravo

    At max level (puns yay) ZOE makes you take way less damage than you deal out making it ideal for in urban combat with dual infantry guns.

    That said -- it still sucks. But WOW do you look FABULOUS!

    I see a lot of hate for lockdown and aegis -- but really don't understand it. Need to push a room with a ton of guys defending it? Aegis while your team swarms in behind you. Need to defend a door or hallway? Lockdown. Need to shell a sundy or kick the enemy air off you? Lockdown. Too dark to see and need a way to light up the room so that your team can kill the enemy? ZOE so they all shoot you and give away their positions while taking the heat off your team! (you'll die -- but you'll die a hero!) Infantry mixer getting boring? Pop ZOE for a light show and dancing to help facilitate mingling!

    They really aren't bad (minus ZoE) -- just only usable in limited situations. Which is, I think the point. For an all purpose utility there is charge. For specific situations, the class specific abilities are useful.
    • Up x 1
  11. DerUnf4ssbare

    In my opinion ZOE was intended to be some kind of power surge activated by the operator to overcharge the whole exosuit.
    To me that means higher speed mainly, because of overloaded servos and motors.

    At first I also thought about higher rate of fire, as the higher ampere value would probably also speed up the loading mechanism,
    but I dont think Vanu engineers would want to feed a power surge into oversized plasma weapons when there are friendlies around.
    Its just an accident waiting to happen.

    Imo it chould be like this:
    No damage amplifier, but a 1:1 tradeoff in movement and damage taken.
    You overload the servos, gain more speed, but it makes you vulnerable because your armor gets affected by the overheating.

    For example:
    10% movement speed and 10% damage taken, that way you could maneuver faster and avoid damage to some extent.
    Additionally, MAX punch does slightly incrased damage (faster servos = more punching momentum).

    An alternative effect could be instead, to have a ZOE MAX move and strafe at infantry speed (normal running, not sprinting so the squishies can still flee).

    Its "fuel" should be a charged pool like the HA shield;
    once you activate it, it uses a fairly large portion of power (to prevent flicker exploiting) and then drains over time, but recharges slowly when inactive.
    Also, you wont be able to switch it off for a few seconds after activating, so you cannot just flip it on/off to follow someone around a corner and rush them; thats what charge is for.
    If you use it, it should be a decision you have to make and accept the drawback to eat explosives if the guy brought friends.
    Once the pool is fully used up, it has a cooldown of a few seconds, like weapons have that long reload when empty.

    Certing it could give you a larger pool and reduce the cooldown, but only slightly, so it doesnt become a perma zealot of op-ness.
    Just from a pool of 10 to 15 seconds and a cooldown of 20 to 15 seconds at level 5 for example.

    level 1) pool: 10, cd 20 for 100 certs
    level 2) pool: 11, cd 19 for 200 certs
    level 3) pool: 12, cd 18 for 300 certs
    level 4) pool: 13, cd 17 for 500 certs
    level 5) pool: 15, cd 15 for 1000 certs

    Thats how I would test it.

    I mainly play VS and AI max, and I think especially the Blueshift is extremely powerful right now; I wouldnt want to be on the recieving end of a damage buff. I also use the current ZOE, and sometimes I actually rip throuh a good amount of people before going down, but that is more due to experience.

    The biggest problem I face are fast moving LAs and smart HAs that know wht they are doing.
    I can counter that with well timed charges or use of crates/corners to avoid C4 blast, but id rather have a way of moving around faster for a short amount of time.

    After all, VS's trait was meant be mobility and versatility.
  12. Quiiliitiila

    Some good thoughts in there, but one I want to point out at being iffy. A 1:1 tradeoff for speed and damage taken would be pretty bad on our end. A 10% increase to speed is negligible and wouldn't help out the VS MAX really at all.

    The reason the old ZOE's movement speed was so high was because that was the speed at which we were able to mitigate/avoid damage through mobility and dodging. Anything lower and your chances of damage mitigation or avoidance became exponentially lower.

    But that's why people hated it, because of the speed. "MAX units shouldn't be able to dodge things" apparently. So now we're stuck with an ability that it's pretty clear DB has no intention of fixing or replacing and a stigma over our MAX units from an old ability that no longer exists.
  13. DerUnf4ssbare

    That 10% value was just an example. :)
    IDK really what would be viable, it should be sensible but not OP.

    AS for people not wanting MAXes to dodge things:
    Yeah, those people would also love to nail MAX units to the ground and prevent them from ducking down, right?
    Come on. With all the recent anti MAX changes (Mines, Archer etc) its time to bring them up to par again.
    People arent afraid of MAXes anymore. All they do is run around a corner, ready a truckload of firecrackers and come out to kill it.
    Its not worth 450 anymore.

    While I agree making them cheaper will have us face a million MAXes in every fight,
    I still think right now they have become gimped in the whole infantry context and need to be balanced again, considered their cost/liefetime ratio with all the explosives around.
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  14. Quiiliitiila

    Preaching to the choir here. I still think MAX units should be immune to small arms fire, but I know that'll never happen. ;)

    The whole implementation of MAX units in this game was doomed to failure. They were made into AI killing machines by way of being able to "dual" AI weapons in a system that was supposed to encourage hybrid set ups of AI/AV or AI/AA, etc. However it quickly became obvious that running a hybrid set up was not viable for a number of reasons:

    - The first being the fact that when you "dual" the same weapon (or type of weapon) you are FAR more likely to kill or destroy your intended target. In a game revolving around getting XP and certs quickly and even more so with the expensive MAX certifications, this became a must.

    - The second reason revolves around the MAX units not having enough health or resistances to viably play a hybrid role. This sort of jumps back to the first reason in that because it takes longer to kill with a hybrid set up, whoever you are shooting at has a LOT more time to do a considerable amount of damage back to you.

    - The last reason is simply that if you can't kill things quickly and you can't protect yourself well enough with a hybrid loadout, you are of little value to your team aside from bullet bait.

    In the end, what should've been done was forcing a split role and greatly improving health/resistances of the MAX unit. That way their AI/AA/AV potential is toned down, but their survival and "indoor tank" image is actually realized. As it stands it's WAY to easy to take out a MAX unit. Laughably so.
  15. ATRA_Wampa-One

    Can we just have it be a short duration/short recharge sprint that's just a tiny bit better than charge?