Okay, Blueshifts are kinda absurd

1. Play a NC MAX for a while then say that, sure if you play against idiots who only start shooting when they run within 10m of you they are good but most people aren't that dumb.

2. Only with extended mags and if you don't miss a shot and are very close

3. slugs reduce damage and make them worse up close as you fire 1 single bullet into that huge CoF.. meanwhile TR/VS guns shoot that far as standard with better accuracy and more bullets.

4. Thats just a flat out lie, again try playing a NC MAX and you'll quickly learn how completely untrue that is, sure you can land hits but it'll take about 4 shots to kill 1 infantry from across a medium sized room, a big room you'll be lucky to kill them at all before you reload.

5. Finally a good answer! yes shotguns on our MAX need to go , they are so utterly worthless it makes me want to cry, I even got mattocks with slugs but I still get much longer kill streaks on my LA/heavy than I ever have on a MAX as the only time a MAX is useful is when you can charge into a tiny room and unload quickly, sure you'll only get off 1 clip at best before you die but at least with charge you might get close enough to hurt them

I swear the only good shotgun is the hacksaw because you can just hold it down and deal some nice damage if you charge into the middle of a group, some people don't even realise how much it affects your aim and RoF when you need to click both mouse buttons every shot.

Well...

My NC MAX uses Grinder and Scat and I do really, REALLY well against infantry and horribly well if I happen to have a "Ronco Pocket Engineer" handy. Enemy MAX's are down in a reload during battle. Enemy heavies make my life miserable as I usually can't dodge the rockets since I'm so close. But most of the time I can make the hordes pay up close.

My TR MAX uses Mutilator and Pounder combo and it can get absurd. Easily my most effective MAX suit. I don't even need an engineer most of the time as I'm really effective at range with the Pounder. Sniper up on the hill? No problem...

My VS MAX, well... I do very well against infantry to be sure, but against other MAX's I have a more difficult time... against a solid, skilled TR max using a gatling variant and a Pounder it's nearly pointless 1 v 1. The NC MAX's I can tactically avoid their effective range many times, but if I get caught up close... poof... but that goes for ANY MAX against the armored shotgun toting monstrosity.

I tend to do the dodge-crouch like some crazy Cossack dance routine which causes most of the noobs to fumble, but is pretty ineffective against experienced opponents... lol.

To avoid the shotguns vs LMGs discussion, I'll keep my assessment to the Blueshift compared to other VS weapons, and Mercies compared to other TR weapons.

For reference, here's the wiki page http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/MAX_Anti-Infantry (click the VS tab above "weapon certification cost and general availability" to see VS weapons).

What we see here is that the Blueshift has roughly 60% the CoF of the Quasar and 50-55% the CoF of the Cosmos/Nebula. It also has a higher rate of fire than both. The primary thing is that CoF reduction though. 2 CoF is huge. The Canister has an effective CoF (ie after accounting for pellet spread) of around 1.2, and you've seen what that looks like. Going from 2.15 to 1.15 makes a massive difference even in close quarters.

Moving over to the TR side, we see that the Mercy's relation to other TR guns is similar to the Blueshift's relation to other VS guns, but slightly less severe since Mercies are slightly less accurate than the Blueshift, while the Heavy Cycler/Onslaught is identical to the Nebula (in CoF only) and for some reason the Cosmos is less accurate than any TR gun. Which kind of screws over new players seeing as that's the cheap one, and the one you get from the new-player questions if you pick MAX.

In fact the Nebula is basically just a purple Heavy Cycler.

Overall, what it looks like is Blueshifts are massively better than any other VS gun simply because you can hit more with them. The CoF reduction is massive, while the benefits of the other guns in relation is relatively small. 60 RoF for the Nebula, 10 rounds for Quasar/Nebula, one damage tier that drops off past 10m anyway for Cosmos/Quasar, 35 rounds that probably won't hit for the Cosmos.

It's hard to compare any of those to having your CoF nearly cut in half.

TR are in a slightly better spot internally. The benefit of the Mercy is slightly smaller, while the benefits of the other guns are bigger and synergize with lockdown. Lockdown Onslaughts is something to seriously consider: 984 total RoF with a 35-50% bonus? A lot of TR don't like lockdown though, and the CoF reduction is still large enough that it's easy to see Mercies being best-in-slot for a non-lockdown MAX.

On that note, it would be nice if we had a way to know exactly which weapons got which bonus. After all, if Onslaughts only get 35% but Mutilators get 50%, Mutilators might be a better choice for a lockdown MAX due to the large magazine. If they both get 50% though, Onslaughts will get much more extra RoF out of that. So yeah, a specific weapon-by-weapon breakdown of the Lockdown bonus would be nice.

Any weapon that kills me is kinda absurd.

Any weapon with which I can't kill you is absurd. XD

**** it, nerf them. They already nerfed everything else, might as well get blueshifts too. Don't forget the lancer either. Probably should hit the magrider one more time just to be on the safe side.

And they cry about how nerfs are killing the game and removing faction flavor when it's time for them to get some.

Meh, nerf everything VS. I don't care anymore.

Blueshift/mercies are as good at range just maybe few meter more with the blueshift. But if you want being efficient you have to leave spray and pray weapons. The best at that are pounders and falcons.They take practice but you will be always better with these weapons (and versatile with AV weapons).Vanu side we have the comets but inferior in my opinion because of the low damage and slow velocity,low ammo.they are no drop,....ok but you don't really need that in the range you use them.

They do 630 damage per reload (per arm, so 1260 for two), so they're not really any worse off than Falcons in that regard (Falcons do 585). The low velocity can be a little annoying, but the no drop is quite useful for picking off deployed Sunderers, Prowlers, and base turrets from a considerable distance.

It also makes landing direct hits on infantry a little easier because you just point it right at them.

Pounders are a little ridiculous damage-wise though. 1140 direct damage and 500 splash per arm, so 2280 and 1000 splash for dual pounders. And then you can take lockdown to fix their low velocity...

The problem is you have to land 2 shots vs. falcon's 1 to deal their damage, and they have terrible velocity meaning often someone can dodge the second shot, and it's just generally much harder to deal with moving targets. They also have recoil that you have to compensate for, or let them reset, if you want to land both shots in the same spot. Falcons, you hit an infantry and if they don't have flak they're dead. They're just plain better.

Pounders wouldn't be that OP if it weren't for their velocity - they actually have the best velocity of the first gen, or at least starting velocity(Falcons start slow but gain velocity). I've used Pounders quite a lot and the main advantage is that you can hit someone with two shots much more quickly and reliably since they're higher velocity than Comets plus they're less wonky when it comes to how they shoot subsequently - Comets have uh...quirks.

That is, if they even are OP, personally I really like where Pounders are and think they're more balanced as AI weapons than actual AI weapons. They have big strengths but also big limitations and are higher risk against multiple infantry due to reloads, and you also have to be more accurate and really judge trajectory. They're one of the few MAX weapons that can be quite fun to use.

Nerf it, its VS, it needs a nerf, oh and nerf VS Libs, Halberds and Lightnings

For infantry perhaps just barely, though for infantry including splash damage means Comets do 395 per hit (from the 80 splash). So you just need 3 hits, meaning you can afford to miss one. Or you can take down someone wearing up to Flak 3 if you land all four. It also means you do more damage to MAXes, though out of the three only Pounders can one-clip a MAX.

Still, the enemy MAX won't be in terribly good shape after you do 1580 damage to them.

You still gain utility from the lack of drop, both in AV and AI use, even if VS like to deny it. It does a good job of being a poor man's Vortex, with some extra anti-infantry versatility to make up for its problems with moving targets.

I have managed to shoot down a few aircraft by taking advantage of the lack of drop as well.

This is just bad information on your part. Even at the highest NC MAXes ever was in terms of power, they still had a 15M hard cap on raw damage. That has dropped to 10m for 3 weapons, 13-15m for Mattocks. Care to see what 15M looks like in game?



That guy lowered his render distance to 15m and ran around a bio-lab to show how big rooms are in this game. If it isn't within 15m then you might as well not shoot at it with buckshot from COF+pellet spread, huge damage drop, and target movement wasting so much ammo into the air. You'll do some chip damage if you spam shells but nothing more and wont scratch another MAX supported or not.

And slugs? HA! They deal 500-334 damage and at BEST need 20 chest hits to deal the 10K damage needed to kill a stock MAX. 14 pure headshots at the 750 damage they do at max damage. Add KA5 and a MAXes effective HP goes to 16K to small arms. Meaning 32 slugs to the chest or 22 to the face. Adding slugs to a shotgun gives a touch more range that requires you to ADS to make full use of, something MAXes can't do FYI, at the cost of a good chunk of their alpha and total mag damage without helping ANY of the other downsides. Plus they cost 150 certs per arm, that's certs that can go to armor TR and VS MAXes making slugs even worse.


Iv been in this debate for well over 2 years now. I know what I am talking about and Im saying. Having one and only one faction be forced into niche roles and shotguns for their MAX ******* SUCKS when the other 2 can have focused roles or general use weapons in HMGs.

Good thing shotguns are useful at close range. Like nearly all capture points in the game. Also coincidentally the range where MAXes are meant to be used for AI. Most MAX weapons are also only useful at the range the video showcases.

It's also hilarious that the video you linked showed that the "effective range" extended as far as it really matters.

"A touch more range"

Try tripling the effective range. Slugs also 2-3HK infantry so the lack of alpha is irrelevant against infantry, only MAXes, which again is irrelevant as NC MAXes also have Falcons and Ravens. I'll ignore for a second that your "horrible" damage to MAX suits brings the shotgun arms to the TR and VS' level in terms of MAX killing power, and that magdumping the shotguns takes two seconds.

Cost is also not an argument for a balancing discussion.

Blueshifts and mercies are still **** at range, they just shine in their mediocrity because the other weapons are even worse. The shotguns are straight-up better at close range (that cannot even be debated) and can equip slugs that bring them up to par at least for medium range.

To be sure, I don't think NC MAXes are overpowered, but they are horribly broken and need to be changed to machine guns.

VS and TR have nothing comparable to NC MAX either......

Considering the primary AI advantage/use of MAXes is CQB room holding, shotguns are typically best.

Mercies are better than Blueshifts in a room, where blueshifts are more usable until you get into said room.

MAX strength is holding the point/door though.

well, I don't....

one of the few things I do on my NC alt is play shotgun MAX

And you didn't bother to watch the video showing how small 15M is never mind the 10M NC MAXes are limited to now.


You don't spawn at the cap point. You have to walk there across buildings, hallways, courtyards, or an entire base depending on spawn locations. Even when you got to the cap points you are STILL in areas far bigger than 15m as seen in the video. All the time you walk around a base getting to a cap point or to where the enemy is to remove them, NC MAXes have real problems doing anything thanks to the ranges fights happen all over a base. Use slugs and any MAXes will **** you up. Use AV weapons and normal infantry will **** you up. Use bursters and everything will **** you up.

TR and VS MAXes have no problem dealing with courtyards, hallways, bigger rooms, spread out targets, Infantry + MAXes, and even field fights WITHOUT needing to find a terminal every 2 minutes to get a new loadout for that exact need. General use, shotguns don't have that ability. HMGs do.

Only the bad and those that are forced stay around a cap point. The goal in defending a base is to keep the enemy out of it. NC MAXes need the enemy to be within their bases to start being of use. TR and VS MAXes don't and can keep the enemy away from cap points or the buildings around them.

Extended mag nebulas and onslaughts. They do wonders for CQC and still have more general use than shotguns.

lolz, I love how everyone are defending there own faction weapons instead of discussing what this thread is about. Seems like Forumsiders have been condition with a automatic response to any kind of balance discussion.

From how I read the first post, this thread wan't even supposed to be about which faction has the best MAX anyway.

He was pointing out how Blueshifts (and to a slightly lesser extent Mercies) were best-in-slot within their own faction.

Mostly because all the alternatives struggle to hit the broad side of a barn. It would be nice if MAXes could see their actual cone of fire instead of having a static crosshair, so we can get a clearer view of how it behaves over the course of typical use.