[Suggestion] New SMG - need rebalance

NC : (Gauss saw+GD-22S)/2 = It seems useful, but not useful.
VS : Ultra Cyclone
TR : Super Cyclone (but BX Adapter is useless)
Why you can say " buff plz"?

Making something known that you already have posted about the Vanu smg is not going to make this post any stronger or weaker. You already said what you said.No use trying to make it sound like it's the icing on the cake.

VS one start on 500RPM and it takes 24 rounds to reach full ROF.

Without the special ammo it is a crappy version of Cyclone.

NC SMG is amazing. Possibly low key the best of the three for experienced players but isn't complained about as much because it isn't as in your face busted as the Canis.

TR one is.... okay I guess? As okay as the PDW is. Won't blow you away but isn't necessarily terrible. I'm not sure what they were going for with this one. 600 rpm/167 damage model is not TR. 30 round magazine is not TR. The dumb ******* underbarreled shotgun-esque alternate firemode is not TR. Unlike the other 2 new ES SMGs I think the Jackal will only be used by infiltrators.

Canis makes me wonder why we even have a public test server. Everyone who tried it said it was an over statted weapon and needed some tuning but it made it to live anyway. I don't think it needs a major nerf though. Maybe a magazine reduction or increased reload time and lower headshot multiplier on unstable ammo.

You're kidding, right? VS practically owns Cobalt, at least 50% of all the alerts go to the spandex army, wouldn't be surprised to find it was closer to 60% really.

Whatev. Enjoy your gun while you have it. I hope they give you a tighter CoF on it after they take away the UA.

The problem of the Canis is that it delivers no clear stats about the actual Rate of Fire,
Many people believe that the 667 rounds per minute are the start RoF...it is actually the peak of the spinup.

This is a very high misconception

Another mandatory thought is that it is indeed very ironic of the smg to have spinup.
I think people would prefer a stable/constant Rate of fire.
Also many people think that bigger ammo provides no accuracy bonus at all because the downsight of the ammo is decrease of accuracy. This is very controversal.

I heard the team had planned to nerf the headshotmultiplier, this would cripple the gun.
Headshots should be rewarded, good aim should be rewarded...

I think the team would be better off by deleting either the spinup or the special ammo to increase the understandement of the gun.

When i see all this videos the first thing I notice: bad ping+ heavy. I don't like this unstable ammo, but to be fair, do you think you won't be outgunned by a heavy with a sirius or eridany? Dev's have made a mistake to put this SMG's on live with such attachment. I don't think a semi decent player would use Canis with unstable ammo if they nerf Hs multiplier. And the stock weapon isn't great past 10 m because of spin up and COF. My proposal is to balance the stock gun (for a standard 167 damage smg) and change unstable ammo for "Tengu" ammo (more or less the same effect but not as much effective). Or lasher ammo (lasher have 200 dmg and more range).

If devs could add interesting mechanics like the link gun from unreal tournament (shooting an ally with the beam increase teammate damage)....

...Then you understand why the UA is an abomination. The headshot box (as tested, go try yourself) is from about one shoulder to the next, and extends and equally absurd distance above the head as well. In the guns effective range, there is equal reward for good and poor aim.

If UA is going to behave this way, then it should not do added damage to the head.

It's a fun gun. They'll need to fix UA though. I hope they tighten the COF after perhaps.

Then only the special ammo should deal less hesdshotdamage

True, dasanfall stats say Canis has the best in-game performance, Gladius the least, with Jackal in-between.

Average KDR:
Canis - 3.56 ± 7.0331 - http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/6003925
Jackal - 2.71 ± 2.63 - http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/6003879
Gladius - 2.48 ± 1.3774 - http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/6003850

Feels like being melted when it hits, nothing you can do to avoid it. Its not only the increased hitbox making for no aim requirement, but dodging, ADADing, or running for cover doesent work either.

So u have to be a total game expert to know if a weapon is good or bad compared to another.

I tend to only use game gun stats as a guide, I use my situations in game to see how a weapon performs and learn from that.

Also here's the other thing about Canis. When you install suppressor on Jackal or Gladius you see bullets fly slowly and falling like stones. Install suppressor on Canis with unstable ammo and you will see another VS trait - no bullet drop!

you tell others about that... when you yourself are to cinic to have a clue yourself... you don't understand like many others that if you have an op you just traded ego for fun defeating the purpose people play...

The ego gives you endorphine if you try to make things easier for you here in the forums but in the game only when you die not when you play.

Then there is the problem of the newby or incapable to imagine how it really would be idiots. But your kind is the worst. Doesn't enjoy or let others enjoy.

The bad thing about SMGs is that you have to use a cloak that advertises your position to the entire base on regular bases. (intended)

Yep it is true, it is me the hatred Diggsano which people here in the Forum hate upon.

So many good guys had to suffer from me on this beautyfull zone of peace and freedom.

So many times i correct people just because i am the manifested evil...not just because they tell BS

Canis definitely needs a bit of tweaking. Reload feels a tad too fast, for one. However, Unstable ammo's huge CoF penalty already sticks it in the close-mid range category.

Gun is fine as it's for CQC as it's velocity and range suck, and it's rounds clip objects/cover. It's situationally better than others.

Where it shines is against lag-wizards and their "ADAD" or "ADADCC" patterns when there's no cover in the way. It's a good equalizer to that for sure, and much needed until DBG fixes the latency/lag switch/lag wizardry and levels the playing field with all those that manipulate hitboxes and aimbots.

If they nerf it this fast on release, I implore those who bought it to demand refunds.