Are the TTK numbers with or without extended mags? How do the numbers change if extended mags are equipped or removed?
I don't have an account on Reddit. But this should be getting spammed at the devs from DVSDelrith. If he can't get word to the devs I don't know anyone who could. I want to say 6. But It's been so long that can't remember the formula. (4*3)/2=6=X? Slugs aren't that bad. In the same tests and against MAXes it takes 20 to kill for 0m-10m but need 28 at 20m and 32 at 30m while using Mattocks. I have raw footage of slugs tests. Reason I didn't edit and upload a slug vidoe is due to slugs being a cert option. No MAX should be forced to have a cert option to fight stock. My personal hate for slugs is from not finding a good use for them on a Mauler after buying just about every scope you can to find a range and place for them. Not worth it for me. In the PSU forums someone brought up me defending the old launch NC MAXes. I did and after doing a bit of math I think that we need those back. Sounds crazy but look at Hacksaw TTK and DPS back then assuming I have the right ROF of 200ms and they had a reload of 4. Video MAX v MAX 0m- 12 10m- 15.8 20m- 56 After math 0m 12/10=1.2 TTK 10,000/1.2=8,333.33 DPS 10m 15.8/10+4= 5.58 TTK 10,000/5.58= 1,792.11 DPS 20m 56/10+12=17.6 TTK 10,000/17.6= 568.18 DPS Compared to now stats of the other fast firing Ai weapons. TTK Order- NC TR VS. 0m 1.2--4.8--4.85 10m 5.58--5.12--4.92 20m 17.6--11.03--9.82 Shotguns do there thing in CQC and be ******* shotguns at the cost of everything else. Maybe tone it a bit to make so that the TTK is 1.5-2 seconds and make certain that the Mattocks get some love as they sucked back at launch with them being the only ones to need a reload at 0m. I was an idiot for getting them and none other then but that paid off didn't it?
All tests are for stock MAXes but for the weapons needed. No cert options at all. To account for extended mags just take the fire time for the shot number and add reload time for the mag size of extended mags. 20 for everything but Grinders, they have 24. With extended mags all weapons would win at 0m. 10m only the Hacksaw would have a reload (killing it with 2 time the TTK of a TR or VS equal). But by 15m everything would need a reload. So it can be safe to assume non Hacksaws will win at 0m-10m but the TTKs at 20m would be so. Sacttercannon- 23.4 Hacksaw- 36.66 Grinder- 32.53 Mattock- 9.46 Mattocks stand a chance at 20m, but nothing else gets past 10m. Mattocks are our best weapon by far if you cert them out. But that means TR and VS would have 1,000 certs to use for their options. Do I give them extended mags, an armor, or an ability? Maybe a mix of the 3 to get the most out of 1,000 certs?
Thanks for the quick response. Extended mags wouldn't make any difference for VS or TR. The reason I was asking the question is that it's not enough to just balance stock MAXes against each other because extended mags have huge impact for NC. Personally I think that shotgun MAX is failed concept because it is impossible to balance properly, in my opinion SOE should give rail guns to NC which would be closer to what TR & VS have. I play TR but I feel that NC MAXes are little bit under powered but I certainly don't want the pre-nerf NC MAXes back.
Wait, this whole time this comparison has been max v max? Yes, that was nerfed for NC. But look at it's TTK vs infantry. That's what the AI max weapons are meant to be used for. That imo would be a more interesting comparison here. IMO, this is bringing out an issue with max's resistance to small arms fire, not necessarily max v max. Because unfortunately, without changing max small arms fire resistance, you really cannot balance them vs infantry without throwing how max vs max works out of wack.
Regarding slugs, even that price goes to TR. Their Fractures are what NC slug users can only dream about...
In PS1 MAXes didn't take damage from small arms. You had to use either a AV weapon for bring AP ammo that wasn't good at all for non armor targets. MAXes also cost far more in PS1 from certs being very limited and based on rank not XP. Think of the good reads if that happened in PS2. So much hate would be spewed on the forums. Also with all TTKs being so low for anything against infantry I don't think they should be a big factor to balance something that has costs they do not. MAXes cost more than vehicles if you think about it. Vehicles and only vehicles use vehicle res, just about everything uses infantry res. With so much that uses infantry res it makes that res far more valuable than the rest. Can't pull a tank or air? Ground pound, Can't pull a MAX either? No more toys for you. Back to infantry TTKs. If it is under 1 second then it is more or less an instant kill. Human reaction time is .2, lag is .2-.3 then you have to give the target time to **** (wait the short for "get the **** out" is bleeped?) and find cover. If anything kills faster than .7-1 second then the target can't do a damned thing. NC MAXes enjoy a sub 1 TTK for 0m to maybe 15m. Look at the Sacttercannon video in the first link of the OP. Infantry 0m- 2 10m- 4 15m- 6 20m- 14 TTKs 0m- 0ish 10m- .66 15m- 1 20m- 2.3 Now look at the Heavy C video in the 2nd link of the OP. Infantry 0m- 7 10m- 10.66 20m- 18.5 30m- 24 TTKs 0m- .52 10m- .79 20m- 1.38 30m- 1.8 Compare common ranges 0m, 10m, 20m. Order NC TR 0m- 0ish-.52 10m- .66 - .79 20m- 2.3 - 1.38 I see shotguns being shotguns and HMGs taking over at ranges outside of 10m. By 10m it gets iffy on standing targets, have them move about and you'll see that ammo become a hard limit to NC MAXes while TR (and VS) MAXes can hose an area with lead if needed. If NC MAXes don't reload after every firing then they have good odds of not having the ammo to kill even if the next target is in the next room or behind some crate pissing himself. Overkill is something you can not avoid and it wastes ammo like nothing else. You either overkill and make a kill certain or risk taking to much damage. TR and VS MAXes can afford to overkill up to 4 targets at least, NC MAXes can't but 1 maybe 2 in a single mag. MAX v infantry looks rather balanced when you are talking about shotguns and HMGs to me. But MAX v MAX is why most pull MAXes. If that is ****** then NC MAXes can't fend off TR/VS MAXes and thus NC infantry have less of a chance to win fights.
Numbers match my experience in game. I used grinders and I won a series of one v ones against TR MAX in favourable ranges without any problems. Mercy just sucks now against MAX. You just have to hope they don't have kinetic and that you can get lucky headshots with that accuracy. Mutilator is now the best overall weapon with Mercy very specialised for engaging targets a certain longish range and Onslaught for scatter cannon range, although it's not as good or needed so why would you. Just about anything VS has performs well at all ranges although not amazingly well when used by every VS player (omg huge buff needed nao). Remember that thread a while ago complaining that Mercy has a 0.05%, or whatever, dps advantage over Blushift at point blank range and that it was terribly unfair?
You never used slug and if you do you must likely stand inside a biolab crouching to control the CoF and hope u find a ******** infantry standing still.
I've been saying this since the first nerf to the nc max the shotguns aren't ****** good and they should remove them and give us dual Gauss weapon for our dam maxes enough of this shotgun crap.
How does the data compare if the MAX is moving 100% of the time it's firing? I don't hold still while shooting. The initial data does confirm what my initial 'feel' was for each weapon. I've always preferred Blueshifts, Mercys and Mattocks.
Slugs would only be viable if the CoF was reduced when equipped, or at least a 1x zoom of some sort. In their current state they are too random, and NC mags are so small that a miss on our part hurts a lot more than a miss on a TR or VS max. However let's say that were the case with slugs. That then begs the question why do NC maxes have to dump 1200 certs, extended mags + slugs, just to be equal to out of the box VS/TR maxes.
In defense of Hacksaws, if you get extended magazines, they WILL be the best for killing enemy MAXs.... at point blank range. There is a one shot difference (14 to 13) between the amount of shots it takes to kill a MAX for a Hacksaw and a Scat/Grinder, and that one shot should be inconsequential because, you know, you have two weapons, and you should be dual-link firing them to get the maximum possible damage. In this point-blank situation with extended mags, since the damage difference is really no difference, it's about ROF, and the Hacksaw has that. But then again, it SUCKS at everything else.
K/D pre-the last nerf was the same for NC and TR AI MAXs vs infantry and ever so slightly lower MAX vs MAX for TR vs NC (I'm not convinced it was even statsitically significant), however TR MAX were massively more played. Also less NC MAXs used Ageis shield than TR MAXs used Lockdown (ZOE was used much more than either).
As always only people that don't use them say that. Are they over "better" than pellets? No. Do the extend effective range a bit over pellets? Yes. Do they magically give a range advantage over TR or VS AI options? No. Slugs certainly have a butter zone where they are better than pellets, but at that range TR and VS AI is going to be laying more DPS on a target (as is a Fracture MAX). Slugs with ADS are wonderful, but without the ability to ADS they don't produce such bonus; in many respects NC AI MAXs are best off running slugs, but that's often a case of least worst option, not better option.
5 Pythagoras. x = root (4 squared + 3 squared) x = root 25 therefore x = 5 This is an easy one, a lot of pythagorean solutions will give you a surd. But 3 and 4 = 5 is one that I remember as being an elegant example in high school where the numbers are juuuuuust right.
What OP forgot to mention is that having extended mags on shotties will bring down their ttk to < 1 second.
No, the OP left the comparison bare-bones to try to keep it as apples to apples as possible. If you start to toss on extended mags, slugs, ZOE, Lockdown, Aegis, etc it will become even worse for the NC.
With due respect, but if you don't know the answer to such basic mathematical task, it makes me question the results of you other calculations a bit. I'm not saying they are wrong, nor am I ungratefull for the effort you put into this. Some people, including myself, have warned about making empire specific weapons as diverse as in PS1 as balancing would be impossible. But SOE made the same mistakes and in the case of AI MAXes we are now stuck with TRs and VSs whining that they get their face melted by NC MAXes who play according to their strength and NCs complaining that they their MAX has such a limited range. What I personally still don't get is the nerf to clip size AND reload speed for the NC AI weapons, especially now after the latest damage nerf. What this does is, that it forces the NC MAXes to hide even more - pop out of cover, unload your clip and hide again, which probably adds to the frustration of playing against them. Have you been on the recieving end of a dual comet ZOE MAX yet?
