Make Magrider worth it

Because every Magrider user has to be Vanu, and suffers from the in this thread already well-documented Vanu inferiority complex. Also because the "every user" doesn't actually include every Magrider user.

Because the Magrider does not have to use stealth or flank. I've explained it before and I'll explain it again apparently until the end of time: Magriders are pretty damn good at frontal attacks, especially in groups. You can dodge, you can use cover much more easily, you can fire on the move. The fact that the Magrider is also the easiest MBT to flank with and use stealth with does not mean it's required to do so.
The fact that I need to tell people this while you can just hop in-game right now and find some Magriders doing exactly this is mind-boggling. But also a good way to tell how far the Vanu inferiority complex symptoms have gotten over the years.

Prowlers and Vanguards when flanking need stealth just as much as the Magrider. In fact they need it more as they are easier found and easier predicted than the Magrider.

Ahw, trying to pass off the Magrider as weak, so sad.

What's that supposed to show? Magrider UP because a Harasser can kill it? Harassers can kill anything, that's been known for years now, in fact since their inception. Besides it's once again a dummy Magrider. There's several allied VS dudes that spot and engage you, which the Magrider doesn't react to. You fire while within 50m distance and he doesn't react to you. Then when you engage, only the Saron reacts at first and the driver later. Then the driver just seems to give up as he stops trying to look at you and just strafes with barely any changes to his chassis direction.

I've highlighted the 'groups' piece as this is one area where the Magrider is hands-down the best MBT. I've got a lot of hours in all of them and a Magrider hunting pack causes serious devastation - the ease of movement is the key. You don't get stuck at choke points, friendly lightnings are just minor speed bumps, strafe to get into a better firing position etc. etc. You just cannot do this with the Prowler or (especially) the Vanguard. When you get to a choke point everyone jostles to get position and it can take a long time to get through.

Regarding the Harasser video - i've said it before and i'll say it again, the Magrider is particularly vulnerable to certain attacks and fast moving Harassers can indeed push Magriders around. But would I give up the mobility advantage to be fixed to the ground ? Not a chance.

Magriders REQUIRE room to dodge unless at extreme range so guess what in the same space that you can fit 5 magriders in (with room to dodge) you can fit twice that many Prowlers or Vanguards. So chances are the VS are going to face more enemy tanks, not a winning prospect.

They have neither the DPS or armor in frontal assaults compared to equal numbers of Prowlers or Vanguards and expecting a Mag to dodge at close range (less then 200m) what are you smoking and can we all have some?

For Magriders to be effective (against enemy armor) THEY NEED to flank and that needs stealth. The Magrider due to its short comings (lowest DPS of all tanks and tied for armor with the Prowler, fun fact if a 1/2 Prowler is surprised in the rear whilst locked down by a 1/2 mag the Prowler will still win) has been pigeon holed (for those that want to maximize its effectiveness) into a single play style for the past three years (possibly hence the reason why its being changed on the test server).

Vanguards and Prowlers have multiple options and they can play stealthy tank killer like the Magrider. To say otherwise sort of discounts three years or so of experience on the servers and when the VS have cried foul and tried to improve the tank balance on the forums.

The days of the Magrider ruling supreme ended with GU1 with the great Magrider nerf which ironically was unwarranted as most mags at that time ran 2/2 unlike the opposition and generally with AV weapons.

Also ALL tanks can shoot and move (the mag can be a little more accurate due to the floating weapon platform) but to say it can use cover effectively well ever tried fighting a hull down Vanguard or Prowler? Non VS tanks can hide behind cover and ridge lines much more effectively, I know I do when using a lightning and they can also strafe by turning the tank and staying in motion whilst keeping the turret focused on the target, or course doing such a thing would mean that the Prowler, Vanguard and Lightning can in theory strafe faster then the mag at the expense of taking fire on the side armor.

Trying to pass off the Magrider as a strong tank when a Lightning can kill then fairly easily, laughable

Oh man.

I never got the memo that magriders were bad!

All these years of absolutely wrecking face with them when they're so aweful must be some kind of fluke I guess.

Can't wait to see my 1337ness if they get buffed!

So you seem to think the space requirement only is enforced when not at long range? You know how dodging works right?

You do realize that for Every Magrider, there isn't a Prowler or Vanguard, which in was there would be completely exposed & in the open, unable to use that space for anything useful at all.

VS have pulled Less magriders per all the data, yet are not losing equal to the difference in numbers.
Which is incredibly telling, given less is competing with superior numbers, and nearly wining.

Magrider's mystical 200 meters of inability to dodge is only tank cannons.
And those managing to aim center mass always on a moving target.

Then go tell all the Vanu whom pulled the least tanks, that they shouldn't have managed frontal assaults and won.
Which they have.

Prowler is the King of DPS, that's TR's thing.
And do recall, as you mention; the PTS changes the Magrider, you don't mention the what.
They gave the Prowler's reload speed to the Magrider.

Apparently facing one tank, with the only plan being attack the rear, shoe-horns a tank into one tactic.
Vanguards having the Shield as the only sane option, apparently isn't shoe-horning however.


A non-shield capable Vanguard, has what options that a Magrider or Prowler can't do better?
What options does a Vanguard have over a Magrider? Shield for 6 seconds?
What options does a Prowler have over a Magrider? Range? Which against a Magrider , it's ineffective?

You can not use the Vanguard to clime a slope smoothly, bolt over hills, into bases, nor glide around cover.
All without even exposing the vulnerable rear armor.
Nor can the Prowler.
Both of these must turn the chassis before moving in any direction not ahead or behind.
Only the Magrider can do the above, and not turn the chassis;
So that limits stealth to praying the enemy doesn't look behind without exposing the vulnerable rear unless you're a Magrider.

Magrider top guns out-preformed heavily.
And they still function incredibly well; Or do you not recall the Saron originally.

All tanks can shoot sure, however in order to actually take advantage of this, Prowlers & Vanguards have to not only move in a straight line, and in process of moving expose their side armor, and rear armor to the enemy near constantly.
A Magrider can face the enemy while doing circles, loops, and more without exposing anything but the front.

A Magrider as well is the only tank that doesn't need to bother with cover due to strafing.
A Hull-down magrider proper is near impossible if you wish to fire the main cannon: but the top-guns work perfectly fine for the mag.
And the Hull-down requires specific spots, in addition to cover-hugging is which a style both Prowler & Vanguard are shoe-horned into.

Taking fire on the weaker side armor means a quicker death, and it slows down the tank.
If a Lightning kills you in a Magrider, that ain't the fault of the Magrider; It's the operator of the tanks involved.

And by the way.
The Vanu here's suggestions to fix the magrider have been:
Cloaking Magrider.
Superior-Shield Magrider.
Flying Magrider.

To name a few.
As apparently to 'fix' the magrider it needs a vastly superior advantage on top of current abilities.

Did you know, the "1v1 Wining" Shield of the Vanguard got shredded, while the Mag was buffed?
You just got your Cake, and can eat it.

Just going to put this reply here, he did it well enough:
Edit: "well enough" sounds demeaning, I meant its a good post and answers the key part of asmodraxus's post. /Edit

(and this one):

Because I can't resist being complete:
Magriders require room to dodge, but due to how they move they can actually use that room. Vanguards and Prowlers limit the maneuverability of their allies much more by being in each other's company, and sitting still in a wall of "please shoot us we can't get into cover and repair" isn't exactly beneficial. You'll rarely ever see a row of Vanguard/Prowlers sitting there shooting except on top of some hillsides since you can drive over the crest for protection. Magriders can have more guns in the same direction anywhere.

Magriders can and will dodge within 200m. This is because players aren't godlike super-aim players that can perfectly track the middle of a Magrider at all times, and the fact that the moment you try to hit anything other than the middle part of the Magrider you are shooting at 1/2 to 1/3rd of the hitbox size, not exactly a winning strategy. The DPS of the Magrider is mere points away from the Vanguard so that's not a problem and dodging a single shot makes the Magrider armor better than the Vanguard.
Just go on youtube right now and find me a single player who, with any tank weapon, will track it's center with perfect accuracy to make use of this magical "can't dodge within 200m" range. Just find me one single person who does that. Hell, make a video of it yourself if it's that easy!

For a Magrider to be effective against enemy armor, they have absolutely no need to flank or use stealth. They are the easiest tank to pull flank and stealth off with, but it's not required. I know what I'm smoking, but yours must be some special Vanu blend that skyrockets the Vanu inferiority complex.

Vanguards and Prowlers do have options to play stealthy tank like the Magrider, but the Magrider has it the easiest.
This argument of yours is like saying "well the HE Lightning also has DPS, so the Prowler doesn't have an advantage!". And you know, for as long as the game has been alive every single faction has had posts about how their tank is supposedly inferior. Even recently there was a guy that thought the Prowler was massively inferior to the other two tanks, stating it's DPS was terrible and it somehow magically had developed a massive recoil somewhere.

At the GU1, all tanks were using AV weapons. Also the Magrider was arguably the most used 1/2 tank because, if I recall correctly and don't mess up which update you talk about, the Saron was an anti-tank sniper that could beat the crap out of any 2/2 Vanguard/Prowler due to it's insane DPS and accuracy and could double as an anti-infantry autocannon with ease. Additionally we still had the old PPA back then... You remember that insanely OP thing? "unwarranted nerfs" my butt.

All tanks can shoot and move, and all tanks have DPS, so the Prowler has no advantage in a higher DPS! Yeah! And all tanks have armor, so the Vanguard doesn't have an advantage either!
The Magrider is massively more accurate when firing on the move. That's why it's the only tank that is guaranteed to move&shoot during any engagement.
And that "hull down" thing? We have how many years of PS2 now? It's been mentioned previously maybe twice a year, if that, and suddenly it's being made into this big problem. But where's the problem? I've rarely ever seen it, while people are saying they see it multiple times a day suddenly but there's no video's, no commentaries and no screenshots that I've seen showcasing this "problem" anywhere. Also, how can the Magrider somehow be worse at hull-down than the other two? All you need is enough cover to hide your chassis while your top gun sticks out. If anything the Magrider with only it's center being very high and the ability to strafe behind cover has an easier time hiding it's frame and preventing rear-hits for anyone who manages to get around the cover. Also keep in mind that the moment someone can hit anything of your tank, you are in danger of losing the DPS battle because then your opponent will have both his top-gun and main canon murdering you.
And I will dare bet that if 1 in 5 bases has a single piece of cover or terrain feature that allows for effective hull-down in their region ("effective" meaning "you can engage enemies regularily if they try to move to the next base"), it'll be much.

And lastly, if you lose to a Lightning in a Magrider, either you suck or the Lightning user is far more experienced than you are.

Nah, this is just what's on the Wiki, which may be way out of date...

Still, while Rear/Bottom is suppose to be the weakest armor, I don't see why the Vanguard Shield can't buff that a tiny bit while active.

The Vehicle update changes the resistance tables entirely.
What is incredibly notable is that Rear armor amplifies damage in the new table, rather than provides slightly less resistance compared to side & frontal armor.

The New Shield does not affect the Rear, and the resistance boost is directional; The sides get less than the front.
The Old Shield was a health booster for 6 seconds, it did not affect resistances.

So yes, the Wiki is out of date, when using PTS data especially.